martin wrote:dacash wrote:Are we saying this because one is playing and one is not? Based on their careers, RJ has been playing longer and seems to do more, Grimes can't run an offense and Rj tho limited an offense can go thru him. Grimes seems to be the better shooter, but Rj has made strides. Is all this love because we are seeing him more? or do u think he has the better upside?
It's a flat comparison of what both players can and cannot do, and at some point there will be a huge price point difference between the 2 and that will rate in.
Also, do you think I just forgot what RJ is because he has been hurt for a few games? Kind of a silly question to me.
RJ has so many deficiencies in his game, I don't know if he can correct all of them and be consistently good or efficient. He will always be a strong defender but I don't know if he will ever be a good enough defender, too slow. Still figuring out if he can be consistent shooting (FT's, layups, 3pointers). Still dribble barrels into double teams. Still makes wild ass passes. Still doesn't know what to do with his right hand. Hack-a-RJ will eventually become a viable strategy if he can't correct.
There is just no doubt in my mind that Grimes is the better defender and has much better defensive instincts. And I think he will flourish within an offense because of his ability to put ball on floor. Good enough passer so far.
After next year, when RJ is making near $11M, Knicks will need to extend him and it'll be in the $25+M range, and when the salary equation comes in the discussion will take another level.
I think over the past couple years you have shown to be somewhat of an RJ pessimist. Question would be how much does that play into your comparison. While you seem to be completely optimistic about Grimes potential based on limited play, at the same time seem to have much more focus on RJ's flaws.
They are pretty much exactly the same age. Grimes at 6'4" is essentially a SG. RJ is 2" taller with a 2" wingspan advantage - he's essentially a wing SG/SF hybrid - so not even sure why in this hypothetical you are saying that we can only keep one SG.
Defense - both are good defenders, but I'm unsure what you are basing your opinion on doubts that RJ will ever by "Good Enough". Say what you want but RJ has been generally drawing the toughest defensive assignment by Thibs - for instance he was given the assignment to defend Morant. I'm not sure what you are using to base you "no doubt in your mind" analysis that Grimes has better defensive instincts and is a better defender. It's certainly not that definitive to me. For instance, I'm viewing RJ as a better rebounder and much stronger and better at interior rotation assignment and against taller players.
Passing - RJ averages a higher per 36 assist stat. Beyond that, not sure how you can say definitively that Grimes would be a better passer other than your anecdotal observation that RJ makes some wild passes.
Hack-a-RJ - this comment makes no sense to me. He is shooting close to 70% for his career from the line. Not sure that a hacking strategy has ever been in place for a guy above 50-60%.
Right Hand - not sure if you are expressing bias because RJ is left hand dominant. I haven't seen enough of Grimes with his left to say he is really any better with his off hand than RJ. Observationally, I have seen RJ make shots at the rim with his right.
Ball on the Floor - In watching Grimes, so far his main strength on offense is his spot up 3. He seems much more inconsistent when creating his own shot whether from 3 or mid-range. I have also observed pretty much the same from RJ over the past several seasons. However in his recent run prior to injury, I have noticed that RJ appears to have become more proficient at shooting off the dribble from mid-range. But too soon to tell if this will continue or not (pretty much for both players IMO).
Ability to get into the paint - I'm in agreement about RJ dribble barrels into doubles and not always making the best decisions at the rim. He currently is lacking in his finish ability - and I think it sticks out to many detractors. Many love Obi for his finish ability and overlook his other flaws. At the same time I believe some detract from RJs other skills based on his less than spectacular finish ability. Honestly, I'm not sure how this will pan out for him but based on his progression and work ethic - I'm very hopeful. Conversely, I really have not seen enough of Grimes being the go-to take it to the rim type of player in the offense to have an informed opinion how he ranks vs. RJ.
My hypothetical is to keep them both and jettison other players instead.
Grimes is definitely a keeper tho.