Yep we really did suck then. We were less than two months removed from David Fizdale. And although the Mike Miller era had its charms, other than RJ and Mitch, who were far more unknowns than they are now, our top prospects were Frank, DSJ, and Knox (God bless 'em). Otherwise we got excited about Damyean Dotson and Alonzo Trier. And oh yeah Iggy. Morris Sr. played pretty all right for us but that was meaningless at the time. And shockingly many of y'all hated Randle.

Since then we've seen the new FO that seems at worst very competent and knowledgeable operating without interference from the owner. To go with RJ and Mitch there is Obi, IQ, Grimes, Deuce. Maybe Sims and the Eurostash PG. We have our #1's going forward plus. And even the hated vets mostly have some value as players and/or assets. Yes -- even Randle is a better "piece" than he was two years ago.

For the record, I am depressed by the team's play for the most part. And I too wonder what the hell is going on with Julius. But as a long time Knicks fan I take personal responsibility to not be a pants wetting crybaby clamoring BUT I WANT TO WIN NOW! Tear it down! Gimme sugar! So far the FO has resisted that sort of nonsense from fans and media. But why take a chance? How bout acknowledging and supporting the enormous progress of the organization and its players? If that makes me a homer -- well hell yeah I'm a homer.

I encourage folks to post their positive thoughts here. You have - what? - 99% of the other threads to say "I hate Randle, Randle sucks, trade Randle." I appreciate that there are many knowledgeable and level headed posters here. And some of the ADD ones make me smile. But like mushrooms after a rain the regret/sky is falling/tear it down threads pop up when the chips are down. We are still hovering near .500 in the middle tier pack. Not telling people to be in denial but the negativity is insidious.

Think two years ago.

Nalod wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Close your eyes and try to remember two years ago....

Yep we really did suck then. We were less than two months removed from David Fizdale. And although the Mike Miller era had its charms, other than RJ and Mitch, who were far more unknowns than they are now, our top prospects were Frank, DSJ, and Knox (God bless 'em). Otherwise we got excited about Damyean Dotson and Alonzo Trier. And oh yeah Iggy. Morris Sr. played pretty all right for us but that was meaningless at the time. And shockingly many of y'all hated Randle.

Since then we've seen the new FO that seems at worst very competent and knowledgeable operating without interference from the owner. To go with RJ and Mitch there is Obi, IQ, Grimes, Deuce. Maybe Sims and the Eurostash PG. We have our #1's going forward plus. And even the hated vets mostly have some value as players and/or assets. Yes -- even Randle is a better "piece" than he was two years ago.

For the record, I am depressed by the team's play for the most part. And I too wonder what the hell is going on with Julius. But as a long time Knicks fan I take personal responsibility to not be a pants wetting crybaby clamoring BUT I WANT TO WIN NOW! Tear it down! Gimme sugar! So far the FO has resisted that sort of nonsense from fans and media. But why take a chance? How bout acknowledging and supporting the enormous progress of the organization and its players? If that makes me a homer -- well hell yeah I'm a homer.

I encourage folks to post their positive thoughts here. You have - what? - 99% of the other threads to say "I hate Randle, Randle sucks, trade Randle." I appreciate that there are many knowledgeable and level headed posters here. And some of the ADD ones make me smile. But like mushrooms after a rain the regret/sky is falling/tear it down threads pop up when the chips are down. We are still hovering near .500 in the middle tier pack. Not telling people to be in denial but the negativity is insidious.

Think two years ago.

good take.

Thank you. But it looks like optimism doesn't sell!

I still think Randle can get back to his All Star form. Do you think Randle misses Elfrid?

gradyandrew wrote:Yeah，I'm not so forgiving. I was calling for the front office to make a strong push for Lowry and DeRozan. Maybe Lowry was already set on Miami but DeRozan was easily available through a FA offer. Instead the front office locked into last year's team for the next two seasons. It's not the end of the world, but there definitely needs to be a course correction.

I still think Randle can get back to his All Star form. Do you think Randle misses Elfrid?

Agreed about DeRozan. Huge miss there. I thought signing him and putting IQ at PG was going to make us a better team.

ESOMKnicks wrote:DeRozan was a bad fit with Randle and RJ. Too many people within the 3 point line, opposing defenses give us no room there as it is. Evan made more sense, the team needed a reliable long distance threat to spread the floor and give more room to Randle. Too bad Evan has not panned out as expected in this capacity, but the logic was there.

I get the logic but it overlooked that DeRozan is another level of player (30 vs 14 win shares over the past 4 seasons). It was too smart. The simple view should have been just signing the best available FA.

Jmpasq wrote:

Knixkik wrote:We were spoiled last year. Randle had a career year. We fell back to earth this year but still are in a great place. A lot of flexibility and ways to improve. Tradable contracts. Good young prospects. A good coach and front office that has gained a ton of goodwill around the league. It just takes time.

I disagree some of the contracts are not moveable without assets. Fournier is an awful contract. He will cost a first to dump. Many of are other contracts are for medicore players that will bring back lateral move players. Timing keeps alluding the Knicks

I don’t think so. They all seem talented it’s just bad as a group. Plus the Knicks don’t need to trade them to make a playoff run or chase a specific free agent. Next year’s FA is bad too so it adds value to the guys we are moving because teams can’t just wait and sign better guys in the summer. Teams should be more realistic in their demands. Then you hear about Indy demanding two first for all their guys and Detroit wanting a first and a young player for Jerian Grant and I think the Knicks will be able to move guys just because they won’t overcharge for them.

KnickDanger wrote:

Nalod wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Close your eyes and try to remember two years ago....

Yep we really did suck then. We were less than two months removed from David Fizdale. And although the Mike Miller era had its charms, other than RJ and Mitch, who were far more unknowns than they are now, our top prospects were Frank, DSJ, and Knox (God bless 'em). Otherwise we got excited about Damyean Dotson and Alonzo Trier. And oh yeah Iggy. Morris Sr. played pretty all right for us but that was meaningless at the time. And shockingly many of y'all hated Randle.

Since then we've seen the new FO that seems at worst very competent and knowledgeable operating without interference from the owner. To go with RJ and Mitch there is Obi, IQ, Grimes, Deuce. Maybe Sims and the Eurostash PG. We have our #1's going forward plus. And even the hated vets mostly have some value as players and/or assets. Yes -- even Randle is a better "piece" than he was two years ago.

For the record, I am depressed by the team's play for the most part. And I too wonder what the hell is going on with Julius. But as a long time Knicks fan I take personal responsibility to not be a pants wetting crybaby clamoring BUT I WANT TO WIN NOW! Tear it down! Gimme sugar! So far the FO has resisted that sort of nonsense from fans and media. But why take a chance? How bout acknowledging and supporting the enormous progress of the organization and its players? If that makes me a homer -- well hell yeah I'm a homer.

I encourage folks to post their positive thoughts here. You have - what? - 99% of the other threads to say "I hate Randle, Randle sucks, trade Randle." I appreciate that there are many knowledgeable and level headed posters here. And some of the ADD ones make me smile. But like mushrooms after a rain the regret/sky is falling/tear it down threads pop up when the chips are down. We are still hovering near .500 in the middle tier pack. Not telling people to be in denial but the negativity is insidious.

Think two years ago.

good take.

Thank you. But it looks like optimism doesn't sell!

Or reality. Bottom line is its rare to dump and extract contracts as we wish. Is OKC just a depository for such players with no thought by Knick fans the costs to do it and what would a player like randle to exist on that team? Fix him up and repackage him a year later? Tell me what is wrong with randle and I’ll then have some inkling to what could/should be done.
EF? He “sucks”, or “inconsistant”? Also what is the deal? Last night like many others he looked great. Can he and randle succeed at the same tiime. randle did not take a ton of shots and he is moving the ball so much better than his first season here. Is it his attitude to giving up the ball to EF and RJ? Or someting else?
He still draws defenders. Im perplexed but its not my job to have answers.
IM perplexed by adding Reddish mid season but undertand if he is a longer term play. Notice how we build him on on the UK then you look at his wirey frame and understand he is not a 4.
Logic says another deal is to be sought to relieve the logjam.

Grimes is a hell of a 25th pick and perhaps fans all over are not lamenting about passing him up!
We are not sad abbout missing Duarte.

sealy wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

ESOMKnicks wrote:DeRozan was a bad fit with Randle and RJ. Too many people within the 3 point line, opposing defenses give us no room there as it is. Evan made more sense, the team needed a reliable long distance threat to spread the floor and give more room to Randle. Too bad Evan has not panned out as expected in this capacity, but the logic was there.

I get the logic but it overlooked that DeRozan is another level of player (30 vs 14 win shares over the past 4 seasons). It was too smart. The simple view should have been just signing the best available FA.

Agreed completely. Another aspect of it is a guy like DeRozan takes some pressure of Randle. Don't think many expect much from Kemba and, to me, Fournier has been ok. The chemistry is just an absolute mess right now but there's plenty of talent on this roster.

It'll be interesting to see what DRose's return will have on Randle and the team as a whole.

The bulls will be begging someone to take on Derozan contract in a year and a half

gradyandrew wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:Silly me starting an "Optimism Thread"....

All these New Yorkers here man，no way out.

I don’t blame Ny fans. 21 years of mostly poor basketball. Long time with many of the same mistakes being made. Right now Jerome James contract looks pretty good compared to some of ours. We’re locked into a shtty mess.

I wouod blow the sht out of this team and build a replica of what the raptors and cavs are doing. Besides pg BIGGER skill players at all positions. Bigger longer athletes will play better team defense and score more efficiently. It’s impossible to say we want a team buoyed around a Chris Paul a steph curry a LeBron James because those are 1 of a kind players. We need more skill out of the 5 3 and 1 thrr we n quality fillers. I think we have done players. Julius Randle is not one of them