Still need a PG, still have 2 big man who can shoot beyond 3 feet, and can't really stay healthy.

Even with a Super Star agent as President (who never addresses the fans or Media) and Wes (who's supposed to be one of most connected people in the NBA) they couldn't make any deals or convince any star to come here.

IMO, almost every FA has been overpaid so far with the exception of Payne. The most i would have given CP/Lowery/Ball the exact amount Fournier got, and them dudes were not accepting that.

The most we can hope for is the coaching staff to get to work on RJ IQ, and GRIMES

The continuity is a good thing, and these players definitely fit, but we are not very deep.

knicks1248 wrote:Wasn't able to move up in the draft despite having 2 1st round picks, and wasn't able to attract any top tier talent despite having the most cap space in the NBA.

Still need a PG, still have 2 big man who can shoot beyond 3 feet, and can't really stay healthy.

Even with a Super Star agent as President (who never addresses the fans or Media) and Wes (who's supposed to be one of most connected people in the NBA) the couldn't make any deals or convince any star to come here.

IMO, almost every FA has been overpaid so far with the exception of Payne. The most i would have given CP/Lowery/Ball the exact amount Fournier got, and them dudes where no accepting that.

The most we can hope for is the coaching staff to get to work on RJ IQ, and GRIMES

The continuity is a good thing, and these players definitely fit, but we are not very deep.

I feel the same. Would you feel the same if our one big move had been signing Kawhi or Ball? I know I wouldn't have.

Hes a better ball handler than grimes. Hes got high end speed end to end --I think this was a gift and we missed it.

EwingsGlass wrote:I want to agree. But every time I get upset about things not going the way I wanted, it turns out that they did something really smart. Their guys were gone so they executed on the next best plan. I’m just waiting and seeing. FO has proven my pre-conceived notions wrong a number of times. We have missed chances. Like Christian Wood or Jerami Grant. But we never know if that was possible in the first place.

I keep wondering about the 3 years on each of Burks and Noel and wondering if there is a S&T in there somewhere. Doesn’t really make sense to go more than 2 years to keep these guys since Bird rights would have vested in 2. Same kind of goes for Rose - except his would have vested after this coming season.

Only thing I can come up with is that they were staving off cannibalism.

They had to reward those players for over achieving, the one good thing MILLS did was attached team options on all of his 1 yr signing's.
Had they did this they would have had more assets to facilitate trades instead of relying on Cap space and Draft picks.

Its like they went for a OIL CHANGE and came out with just their tires rotated and their window washer fluid refilled..

homeskillitprigioni wrote:

RSparrow2 wrote:I LOVE what the FO has been doing, taking what comes at them, fans want an instant contender and are star stuck that need name recognition. We need a particular type FA, not just one of the best of that particular year. The FO has done a good job accumulated good players and are building a winning culture. We are so much better and closer to a complete team with depth than any time over the last 20 years. In addition, alot of our players are under 23 years old and will improve year over year. The Knicks have not overpaid for anything, very patient and calculating moves.

I remember the fans outrage last year after their analysis of our failed FA signings. Last years team was one of the most enjoyable years I could remember, love rooting for the young players.

Most all of our contracts end in 2025, I believe when players like Lilliard and Karl Anthony Towns become FA's. I think this team will grow and win enough to get near the Conference Championship by then ..

At least you're more realistic, even though we disagree on a few points.

I agree that the Knicks basically made a big proclamation that they have no designs on winning the championship over the next 3 years with locking into these players they did. Conference championship is probably the ceiling, agreed.

I just don't agree that's a good thing. We had the roster flexibility to be able to add a big piece if it became available, and now we don't. Literally the best case scenario could happen with this roster in terms of development and health and whatever and it's still not good enough.

Last year's offseason was totally different. While we whiffed on a couple players in FA, we stayed with 1 year deals for the most part and didn't trap ourselves into bad multi-year contracts, we retained our flexibility while surrounding our young players with decent vets.

I said this before in another post...but I think the people that are angry about this offseason ARE the more patient fans because we didn't want to lock ourselves into these contracts just to be marginally better next year. We would've been fine with 1 year deals again and letting our young guys develop and retain roster and cap flexibility.

I guess it's ultimately a matter of preference. The fans that are happy with this offseason are just happy with being mediocre or slightly above and the fans that aren't happy are the ones that wanted to shoot for the stars within the next 3 years.

How do you make that statement with a straight face before we know the extent to all of the deals signed? And then assume that the Knicks will make zero trades, adjustments, growth after that?

LivingLegend wrote:Holding out hope we will have team options on the last years of Burke’s /Noel deals regardless of what may have been conveyed in press so far. Turning those into effectively 2 year deals would make me feel worlds better.

Still believe we have at least 2 significant adds coming via FA or trade.

Personally I would be thrilled with Schroeder/ Oubre.

Do wonder if Bullock deal with Dallas could be finagled into S/T with Brunson coming back to NY.

We obviously need a starting pg that Thibs trusts (Schroeder/Brunson/Nunn?) so Rose can come off bench and we really need a defensive wing (Oubre?).

FINGERS CROSSED but I doubt it

LivingLegend wrote:Holding out hope we will have team options on the last years of Burke’s /Noel deals regardless of what may have been conveyed in press so far. Turning those into effectively 2 year deals would make me feel worlds better.

Still believe we have at least 2 significant adds coming via FA or trade.

Personally I would be thrilled with Schroeder/ Oubre.

Do wonder if Bullock deal with Dallas could be finagled into S/T with Brunson coming back to NY.

We obviously need a starting pg that Thibs trusts (Schroeder/Brunson/Nunn?) so Rose can come off bench and we really need a defensive wing (Oubre?).

Now I've thought about it, where would the minutes be for Schroeder? our backcourt has: RJ/Fournier, Rose, Burkes, IQ, maybe the rookies too if they show anything. With the kind of money we spent, there's no way we'll want a player that requires starter minutes at PG. We are bit shallow at back up SF though, especially if you don't buy Toppin there. Maybe we'll go after a backup versatile defensive SF who can switch to PF? Thad Young? Winslow? (he's a good passer/playmaker if injuries haven't finished him)

We signing Dennis Schroder?

martin wrote:

homeskillitprigioni wrote:

RSparrow2 wrote:I LOVE what the FO has been doing, taking what comes at them, fans want an instant contender and are star stuck that need name recognition. We need a particular type FA, not just one of the best of that particular year. The FO has done a good job accumulated good players and are building a winning culture. We are so much better and closer to a complete team with depth than any time over the last 20 years. In addition, alot of our players are under 23 years old and will improve year over year. The Knicks have not overpaid for anything, very patient and calculating moves.

I remember the fans outrage last year after their analysis of our failed FA signings. Last years team was one of the most enjoyable years I could remember, love rooting for the young players.

Most all of our contracts end in 2025, I believe when players like Lilliard and Karl Anthony Towns become FA's. I think this team will grow and win enough to get near the Conference Championship by then ..

At least you're more realistic, even though we disagree on a few points.

I agree that the Knicks basically made a big proclamation that they have no designs on winning the championship over the next 3 years with locking into these players they did. Conference championship is probably the ceiling, agreed.

I just don't agree that's a good thing. We had the roster flexibility to be able to add a big piece if it became available, and now we don't. Literally the best case scenario could happen with this roster in terms of development and health and whatever and it's still not good enough.

Last year's offseason was totally different. While we whiffed on a couple players in FA, we stayed with 1 year deals for the most part and didn't trap ourselves into bad multi-year contracts, we retained our flexibility while surrounding our young players with decent vets.

I said this before in another post...but I think the people that are angry about this offseason ARE the more patient fans because we didn't want to lock ourselves into these contracts just to be marginally better next year. We would've been fine with 1 year deals again and letting our young guys develop and retain roster and cap flexibility.

I guess it's ultimately a matter of preference. The fans that are happy with this offseason are just happy with being mediocre or slightly above and the fans that aren't happy are the ones that wanted to shoot for the stars within the next 3 years.

How do you make that statement with a straight face before we know the extent to all of the deals signed? And then assume that the Knicks will make zero trades, adjustments, growth after that?

It's an opinion many share- no straight face is needed to make that statement. I agree there has to be more, but what? We had more cap space than anyone, and we ended up with diddly.

martin wrote:

franco12 wrote:do we know if our FO spoke with Leonard's agent(s)?

If Leonard said - I want to come to NY, did Rose tell them - sorry, we're keeping our own guys.

How does Pat Riley every year pull rabbits out of hats, and we're happy to retain Derrick 'I'm 33 and have played 20,000+ minutes and now am firmly on the downside of my career' Rose?

Versus what? Paying a fat 35 year old $90M over 3 years versus giving a guy who boosted out team to a 24-11 record while Toronto floundered?

Let this sink in. Rose, 32 given 3 year $43M. Lowry, 35 given $90M over 3 years.

I though Jimmy Butler was over rated. He goes to Maimi, and then he's an absolute monster in COVID year.

Riley added - we kept.

Look - I would not have signed Lowry. And I'm not against Rose in isolation. But we didn't really improve anything.

Bulls, Miami certainly did.

We were lucky last year, out performed- got career years out of some players. That is hard to do that year after year.

We needed to swap out and roll the dice on someone getting better.

Rose can't give us starter minutes. If we're lucky, we get 60 games, 28 mins per out of him. What are we doing for the other 57% of PG minutes? Are we going with Burks? Is Payton coming back. Is it IQ? The kid we drafted?