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Explain the magic of expiring contract as the cure all elixir to ridding of players.......
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Nalod
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10/27/2004  9:32 AM

I keep reading that we can get rid of a player in the last year of his contract and recieve these magical benefits.

I see it that we can receive a player with a similar annual contract, but is longer. Say we trade penny next year. Say we wait until the trade deadline. Ok, say Penny has a deal with 17 mil on it his last year, so we can take on a player that NOBODY WANTS and has a long deal. The other team is basically dumping. We have a few guys we'd like to dump, but who would take them? Teams that have longer deals they want to get rid of.

Thats my take on this magical expiring year. Im not that excited about it.

Help me out here, throw out some good examples of how we can use the expiring thing. I understand the Marbury trade, but how many excellent players are out there to be had like that. Keep in mind Marbs has not yet fulfilled his greatness and had question marks on his resume. Still does as a matter of fact. I think he is a worthwile risk mind you.

Do we see many teams willing to take on H20's salary and give us an expiring deal? Do we take on CWeb's?
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toodarkmark
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10/27/2004  9:52 AM
When Elton Brand is sick of losing and demands a trade, and let's say the Clippers want to go young again. Penny Hardaway, Trevor Ariza and Mike Sweetney might look might tempting with Hardaway's contract expiring. Just an example.
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martin
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10/27/2004  9:55 AM
pessimistic view to be sure.

an expiring contract can yield you the likes of Marbury. Or Theo Ratliff and Rahim.

Or Glen Rice and Anderson and Eisley.

It's about how you play them off. Could be nothing, could be great.
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Nalod
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10/27/2004  10:08 AM
Posted by martin:

pessimistic view to be sure.

an expiring contract can yield you the likes of Marbury. Or Theo Ratliff and Rahim.

Or Glen Rice and Anderson and Eisley.

It's about how you play them off. Could be nothing, could be great.

Basically, PHX traded Steph for Lampe, a No.1 pick (16th) and cap space to get Nash.

But today some one mentioned waiting two years for shandons deal to get in last year when he is "an expiring deal". Did not understand that logic.

Yes, can get a good player, and can be Glen Rice, Eisley, etc.

But its not the magic that is thrown around.

ANd please let not get brand when he starts to decline! I want players on the upside! Im optomistic Craw can be broken into a good player despite his bad habits, but no more over the hill bloated players!
CTKnicksfan
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10/27/2004  10:12 AM
Some tend to forget that expiring deals alone didn't net Marbury. It's true that the deal couldn't have been struck without them, but we also gave picks and prospects and had to take on Penny's deal as well. That's the type of trade a rebuilding team will make when it wants to dump a superstar and rebuild.

The other recent example of course is the Crawford trade. Bulls basically could have let Crawford walk, only use in doing this trade was to also clear JYD's last 3 years off the books. We can make Crawford-type deals to take on major money to marginal players like JYD with just expiring contracts. But to get established stars for the expiring deals be prepared to part with Sweetney, Ariza, and/or picks (when we can finally trade them again).
MS
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10/27/2004  10:21 AM
I really think that the Clippers would have to listen to a combination of Sweetney and Hardaway to get rid of Brand. He makes a lot of money and isn't helping them win, and Brand is what we are hoping sweetney turns into and he is still young. And they have Wilcox, and Livingston young guys that need some time....

If we could do that trade and bring Ariza along and get a couple of role players it would really help the team.
MS
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10/27/2004  10:25 AM
Also I know we all like Crawford, but he is a wild street baller, and TT just sucks.... And he has a big expiring deal....

TT to the Suns for the Matrix
Hardaway, Sweetney, to the Clipps for Brand
Move Crawford, for a defensive minded shooting guard

Bring in Phil Jackson as the coach
Bizzy211
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10/27/2004  10:47 AM
after watching the game, I noticed how good the Knicks can be. Someone in this Forum mentioned that the Knicks should Press. I'm not sure who said it, but when the Knicks did press yesterday, it turned into a steal. They could've pressed New Jersey all day and they would've blown them out. Also, Nazr and Sweetney has some nice moves in the post, but the aren't getting isolated enough and the middle is always clogged when they get the ball.

How do you expect them to execute this way. Sweetney was able to get to the foul line, but Nazr doesn't have the bulk to back down so he seldomly goes to the charity. We also need some better screen plays downlow for our guards (something like what Indiana used to do for Miller and what Detroit does for Rip) this way we aren't always trying to beat the defenders off the dribble. I bet this will help out T.T because he would just flare out off the screen he set. Chaney used to do this when we had Van Horn and Keith flourished with that play. Penny can hit the spot up J, but he doesn't get plays designed like that. Moochie did alot of good orchestrating yesterday and I was inpressed. He was actively getting his team to press and he was screening all over the place.

Executed plays determine how a team looks and right now they need these aforementioned plays ran constantly to become a solid team. They can play defense but they need to press more. These guys are fast enough to get back. Don't get me wrong though, I can't see them pressing against the Lakers, Miami, Denver, and Detroit, but all the other teams I say go for it.

This is just my opinion.
Bizzy Shadyville, NY **soundcloud.com/Bizzy211**
Bonn1997
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10/27/2004  10:54 AM
Posted by Nalod:
Posted by martin:

pessimistic view to be sure.

an expiring contract can yield you the likes of Marbury. Or Theo Ratliff and Rahim.

Or Glen Rice and Anderson and Eisley.

It's about how you play them off. Could be nothing, could be great.

Basically, PHX traded Steph for Lampe, a No.1 pick (16th) and cap space to get Nash.

But today some one mentioned waiting two years for shandons deal to get in last year when he is "an expiring deal". Did not understand that logic.
His expiring contract alone probably won't get a lot; but in the right package with other assets or expiring contracts, it can get a Marbury type player like Isiah did last year.
technomaster
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10/27/2004  10:56 AM
A little more than that. :)

Let's break it down officially:

Phoenix sent:
Steph & Hardaway

Phoenix received:
Ward - immediate cap savings
McDyess - offseason cap space
Eisley
Lampe
1st Round Pick

This gave them enough cap space over the summer to sign both Nash and Q. Rich (and Brandy)



Posted by Nalod:

"Basically, PHX traded Steph for Lampe, a No.1 pick (16th) and cap space to get Nash."
“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
Nalod
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10/27/2004  10:59 AM
Posted by Bizzy211:

after watching the game, I noticed how good the Knicks can be. Someone in this Forum mentioned that the Knicks should Press. I'm not sure who said it, but when the Knicks did press yesterday, it turned into a steal. They could've pressed New Jersey all day and they would've blown them out. Also, Nazr and Sweetney has some nice moves in the post, but the aren't getting isolated enough and the middle is always clogged when they get the ball.

How do you expect them to execute this way. Sweetney was able to get to the foul line, but Nazr doesn't have the bulk to back down so he seldomly goes to the charity. We also need some better screen plays downlow for our guards (something like what Indiana used to do for Miller and what Detroit does for Rip) this way we aren't always trying to beat the defenders off the dribble. I bet this will help out T.T because he would just flare out off the screen he set. Chaney used to do this when we had Van Horn and Keith flourished with that play. Penny can hit the spot up J, but he doesn't get plays designed like that. Moochie did alot of good orchestrating yesterday and I was inpressed. He was actively getting his team to press and he was screening all over the place.

Executed plays determine how a team looks and right now they need these aforementioned plays ran constantly to become a solid team. They can play defense but they need to press more. These guys are fast enough to get back. Don't get me wrong though, I can't see them pressing against the Lakers, Miami, Denver, and Detroit, but all the other teams I say go for it.

This is just my opinion.

Nice take by the way!

Larry Brown mentioned a few weeks back that NBA players don't like to press!
Bizzy211
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10/27/2004  11:03 AM
Thanks. The Knicks have the speed to do it with MArbs, T.T , Crawford, Moochie, and Ariza. There is no excuse why they don't. They did yesterday and came back to win.
Bizzy Shadyville, NY **soundcloud.com/Bizzy211**
fishmike
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10/27/2004  11:46 AM
is not a cure all by any means.... and its a $$ asset only. However, if your willing to spend the expiring deal is huge.

The expiring contract of Sheed got the Blazers Rahim and Ratliff. This was a pure money move for the Hawks, who traded Sheed a week later for other expiring deals and low draft pick.

Expiring deals of Harrington, Mutumbo and Tski allowed the Knicks get Crawford via sign and trade while taking back Jerome William's long term deal saving the Bulls about ($8mm?)

Expiring contract of Juwan Howard got the Mavs Raef Lafrentz and Nick Van Exel. I beleive Dallas went to the conference finals that year.

There's tons of others.. some small and some big.

The expiring contracts are really valueable at the deadline, when a team that sucks can shave future payroll and possibly get below the cap but moving players with more years on their deal for a player playing in his walk year. Having TT, Penny and Nazr around Feb of next season will be HUGE trading assets, because teams will be looking to dump salary to get a big FA (Yao Ming's class).
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
CTKnicksfan
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10/27/2004  11:51 AM
Remember also that Howard was moved a full year and a half before his deal was set to expire. TT and Penny may even have some value at this years' deadline.
tkf
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10/27/2004  11:56 AM
expiring deals are good for teams like the knicks who don't mind spending money, the key here is that you have to be willing to take back a bad deal in order to get a good player... Kind of like the craw deal, year JYD is overpaid but getting crawford over the long haul was worth taking back that deal, and that is what teams are going to have to determine, is the player they really want, worth taking back a bad deal for a couple of years....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Nalod
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10/27/2004  3:13 PM
It will be nice when we don't have to carry 33%ofthe roster in bad deals: Penny, Mooch, Jyd, Shandon. Im not saying I don't like JYD, its a deal we had to take to make Jamal happen.
Bonn1997
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10/27/2004  3:26 PM
Posted by Nalod:

It will be nice when we don't have to carry 33%ofthe roster in bad deals: Penny, Mooch, Jyd, Shandon. Im not saying I don't like JYD, its a deal we had to take to make Jamal happen.
You're top 8 players win or lose games. The next 3 or 4 are slightly relevant. The bottom 33% are always irrelevant. The fact that the Knicks can afford to have overpaid players at the bottom of their roster is their biggest asset. It's helped the team improve quickly while Isiah's been here and it's something we should just be thankful for.
crzymdups
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10/27/2004  3:38 PM
Posted by MS:

Also I know we all like Crawford, but he is a wild street baller, and TT just sucks.... And he has a big expiring deal....

TT to the Suns for the Matrix
Hardaway, Sweetney, to the Clipps for Brand
Move Crawford, for a defensive minded shooting guard

Bring in Phil Jackson as the coach

Good luck with that.
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MaTT4281
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10/27/2004  3:46 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by MS:

Also I know we all like Crawford, but he is a wild street baller, and TT just sucks.... And he has a big expiring deal....

TT to the Suns for the Matrix
Hardaway, Sweetney, to the Clipps for Brand
Move Crawford, for a defensive minded shooting guard

Bring in Phil Jackson as the coach

Good luck with that.

Ha I know, I had to stop and reread that "TT to the Suns for the Matrix" line and make sure I didn't skip over anything.
Bonn1997
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10/27/2004  3:49 PM
Posted by MaTT4281:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by MS:

Also I know we all like Crawford, but he is a wild street baller, and TT just sucks.... And he has a big expiring deal....

TT to the Suns for the Matrix
Hardaway, Sweetney, to the Clipps for Brand
Move Crawford, for a defensive minded shooting guard

Bring in Phil Jackson as the coach

Good luck with that.

Ha I know, I had to stop and reread that "TT to the Suns for the Matrix" line and make sure I didn't skip over anything.
I think MS mentioned that because there are rumors the Suns want to get rid of Marion's big contract. TT alone wouldn't be enough to get the deal done; we'd have to sweeten the deal, but I do think guys like Marion and Brand will be available.
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