Second reality is that we have promising young players but unfortunately there are no saviors in the bunch. Probably just good rotation players. Too many DREAMERS on the board. Ones who want starting line up changes for any young draft pick that can play a little defense or shows a glimmer of talent. Fact is most will be possible role players on good teams. The thirst for a savior is high. I get it. But lets look at some true perspective from last nights game to bring things into REALITY and to make this point. Quick had a good game. Great energy, motor and made things happen. HOWEVER the kid shot 27%!! from 2. 16% from three!! All against the third string team of the CAVS. He had the same 2 TO's as Smith and Randle but is now hailed as our new starting PG? Randle shot 70% but crickets. Robinson had 3 fouls in first quarter if not for the third string line up that played most of the second half, he would have fouled out within his 20 minute average. Smith as bad as he played in his first 5 minutes, had 5 Steals and 2 Blocks, shot 50% from 2 and 3. If Frank had done that the Frank cult would be storming MSG this morning demanding he be given a max. Toppin had four great lob dunks? What else? Scored just 8 points (Same as Smith less than half of Randle). Not hating on any of the players. Love MR, Tops and Quick. Have come to appreciated Franks role. But lets stop the thing we do.

Like everyone else, I am happy for our young kids that played well yesterday. I like their energy. Feel they are fun to watch. Looking forward to their progress and contribution. Hoping they get lots of playing time the last quarter of the season. Unlike some I am not doing what Knick fans are famous for doing, over hype their own players that they feel "Play how they want them to play" or have one good quarter. Despite the dreams of many(myself included) the reality is we will be a lottery team. We have many unproven young players. Our most experienced and consistent NBA players are still Randle, Rivers, Burks, Noel, Bullock and Barrett. Those are the guys that will be getting the most playing time and who Thibs knows will give him the best chance to win. Of course that is fluid. The rest are works in progress and have yet proven to be good enough to make a good teams rotation. Looking forward to the days we have enough talent to prevent a whole bunch of "Start the mediocre player" threads. Will also keep rooting for this reality with NO expectations. Except for the one that this FO knows this is the reality and will make moves to trade our dreams for a better reality.

But if anyone disagrees I will be happy to read the many dream scenarios? Need my daily fix of them.

HofstraBBall wrote:Most opinions on here are filled with preconceived notions. With little true perspective. Except for mine. Randle is our best player. He has the ability to get a double double every game. Usually does. Yet NO ONE cares. He shot 70% last night. Had 3 assists in the first 7 minutes. Had 6 and 5 previous two games. Yet all anyone wants to to is emphasize his turnovers(Spinners). Although he only had 2 TO's which for the primary option is nothing. Why? He takes minutes away from the fans dreams? Or maybe cuz of pre conceived expectations. Fans thought we should be winning the East after paying ONE guy over 20 Million. Which btw is one of the reasons NO ONE wants to come here. NY fans just hate anyone that gets paid and does not bring us a chip. Look, Randle is by far NOT the first player I think of as a teams first option but the fact is HE IS. Until we get one that is better or he is traded. But he is not getting benched.

Second reality is that we have promising young players but unfortunately there are no saviors in the bunch. Probably just good rotation players. Too many DREAMERS on the board. Ones who want starting line up changes for any young draft pick that can play a little defense or shows a glimmer of talent. Fact is most will be possible role players on good teams. The thirst for a savior is high. I get it. But lets look at some true perspective from last nights game to bring things into REALITY and to make this point. Quick had a good game. Great energy, motor and made things happen. HOWEVER the kid shot 27%!! from 2. 16% from three!! All against the third string team of the CAVS. He had the same 2 TO's as Smith and Randle but is now hailed as our new starting PG? Randle shot 70% but crickets. Robinson had 3 fouls in first quarter if not for the third string line up that played most of the second half, he would have fouled out within his 20 minute average. Smith as bad as he played in his first 5 minutes, had 5 Steals and 2 Blocks, shot 50% from 2 and 3. If Frank had done that the Frank cult would be storming MSG this morning demanding he be given a max. Toppin had four great lob dunks? What else? Scored just 8 points (Same as Smith less than half of Randle). Not hating on any of the players. Love MR, Tops and Quick. Have come to appreciated Franks role. But lets stop the thing we do.

Like everyone else, I am happy for our young kids that played well yesterday. I like their energy. Feel they are fun to watch. Looking forward to their progress and contribution. Hoping they get lots of playing time the last quarter of the season. Unlike some I am not doing what Knick fans are famous for doing, over hype their own players that they feel "Play how they want them to play" or have one good quarter. Despite the dreams of many(myself included) the reality is we will be a lottery team. We have many unproven young players. Our most experienced and consistent NBA players are still Randle, Rivers, Burks, Noel, Bullock and Barrett. Those are the guys that will be getting the most playing time and who Thibs knows will give him the best chance to win. Of course that is fluid. The rest are works in progress and have yet proven to be good enough to make a good teams rotation. Looking forward to the days we have enough talent to prevent a whole bunch of "Start the mediocre player" threads. Will also keep rooting for this reality with NO expectations. Except for the one that this FO knows this is the reality and will make moves to trade the dreams for a better reality.

But if anyone disagrees I will be happy to read the many dream scenarios? Need my daily fix of them.

++1! Well said.
Dennis had a few bad turnovers and shot less. Reggie shot looked like he had no legs out there. Flat.
The line up Cavs had in 4th qtr was a big odd.
The Quickly mania here has us forgetting Rivers is in the fold.
Can’t Iggy get any time???

Replace Randle with a better player? Easier said than done.

Besides it doesn’t matter with Covid19 both Obi and Randle will get playing time

fwk00 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:I’d rather use Randle as a 6th man off the bench still

Besides it doesn’t matter with Covid19 both Obi and Randle will get playing time

I was looking at it pragmatically. Thibs will start Randle at least for the first half but yes, its slim pickings at PF with only the two of them.

The Knicks are trying to market Randle for another trade at the deadline like they did with Morris last year

Philc1 wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:I’d rather use Randle as a 6th man off the bench still

Besides it doesn’t matter with Covid19 both Obi and Randle will get playing time

I was looking at it pragmatically. Thibs will start Randle at least for the first half but yes, its slim pickings at PF with only the two of them.

The Knicks are trying to market Randle for another trade at the deadline like they did with Morris last year

Well, because of the virus there are a LOT of players on the outside looking in. Hard to know how active that mid-season trading activity will be.

fwk00 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Most opinions on here are filled with preconceived notions. With little true perspective. Except for mine. Randle is our best player. He has the ability to get a double double every game. Usually does. Yet NO ONE cares. He shot 70% last night. Had 3 assists in the first 7 minutes. Had 6 and 5 previous two games. Yet all anyone wants to to is emphasize his turnovers(Spinners). Although he only had 2 TO's which for the primary option is nothing. Why? He takes minutes away from the fans dreams? Or maybe cuz of pre conceived expectations. Fans thought we should be winning the East after paying ONE guy over 20 Million. Which btw is one of the reasons NO ONE wants to come here. NY fans just hate anyone that gets paid and does not bring us a chip. Look, Randle is by far NOT the first player I think of as a teams first option but the fact is HE IS. Until we get one that is better or he is traded. But he is not getting benched.

Second reality is that we have promising young players but unfortunately there are no saviors in the bunch. Probably just good rotation players. Too many DREAMERS on the board. Ones who want starting line up changes for any young draft pick that can play a little defense or shows a glimmer of talent. Fact is most will be possible role players on good teams. The thirst for a savior is high. I get it. But lets look at some true perspective from last nights game to bring things into REALITY and to make this point. Quick had a good game. Great energy, motor and made things happen. HOWEVER the kid shot 27%!! from 2. 16% from three!! All against the third string team of the CAVS. He had the same 2 TO's as Smith and Randle but is now hailed as our new starting PG? Randle shot 70% but crickets. Robinson had 3 fouls in first quarter if not for the third string line up that played most of the second half, he would have fouled out within his 20 minute average. Smith as bad as he played in his first 5 minutes, had 5 Steals and 2 Blocks, shot 50% from 2 and 3. If Frank had done that the Frank cult would be storming MSG this morning demanding he be given a max. Toppin had four great lob dunks? What else? Scored just 8 points (Same as Smith less than half of Randle). Not hating on any of the players. Love MR, Tops and Quick. Have come to appreciated Franks role. But lets stop the thing we do.

Like everyone else, I am happy for our young kids that played well yesterday. I like their energy. Feel they are fun to watch. Looking forward to their progress and contribution. Hoping they get lots of playing time the last quarter of the season. Unlike some I am not doing what Knick fans are famous for doing, over hype their own players that they feel "Play how they want them to play" or have one good quarter. Despite the dreams of many(myself included) the reality is we will be a lottery team. We have many unproven young players. Our most experienced and consistent NBA players are still Randle, Rivers, Burks, Noel, Bullock and Barrett. Those are the guys that will be getting the most playing time and who Thibs knows will give him the best chance to win. Of course that is fluid. The rest are works in progress and have yet proven to be good enough to make a good teams rotation. Looking forward to the days we have enough talent to prevent a whole bunch of "Start the mediocre player" threads. Will also keep rooting for this reality with NO expectations. Except for the one that this FO knows this is the reality and will make moves to trade our dreams for a better reality.

But if anyone disagrees I will be happy to read the many dream scenarios? Need my daily fix of them.

Randle is not our best player but he is a necessary and useful player. Thibs said it best when he said, "It's not about who starts but about who finishes". Obie needs time to learn the NBA game and the league. Randle gives him cover. That's enough. Let him play out the year and see how that goes.

Frankie is not a starter (at least until he establishes his offensive credentials). He is better off the ball but also better when flanked by a scoring one or two. I think, as usual, his minutes will be constrained but important finishing minutes in games where defense is key to winning the last minutes of a game.

We have promising chemistry - not savior-itis. Covid has skewed a lot of things this year. The off-season signing of so many cookie cutter, flawed 'B' players I think is preemptive inoculation against in-season Covid absences. That and miscalculations on the availability of Rivers.

I've long advocated that Payton still had potential. He's a year more senior than Frankie and also was a high draft pick. This really should be is transformational year. Yet these early games are exposing no offensive growth (so far). With Rivers, Burks, MKG, and Quickley adding pressure to that position. Payton may be moved early or MKG cut. It's Monty Python scaled redundancy.

DSJ is the Forrest Gump of this PG mix. He did a few good things against the Cavs JV team that will be difficult to repeat against league play. Still, he *tried* and got a few kudos for doing so. Given his guardian angels, maybe he sticks long enough to learn the game.

I'm guessing starters of Payton, Rivers, Barrett, Randle, and Noel. Second unit DSJ, Burks, Bullock, Obie, and Mitch.

Finishers/Gamechangers: Frankie, Quickley, Knox

Agree with a lot of this. Who do you think is our best player? Maybe RJ.

In terms of rotation, keep in mind Thibs likes an 8 or 9 man rotation. We may not have a full second unit. Will be interesting to see who and how many make the rotation.

On this basis, I would hope to get at least some sample size of him starting or getting more minutes.

If it’s a no from Thibs for Frankie then I would go with IQ. ( love what I’ve seen thus far ) it’s obvious to me DSJ and Elf aren’t what we need.... Rivers meh...

SupremeCommander wrote:

franco12 wrote:I agree, especially about Randle. He's our new Kurt Thomas. Folks were down on him. Said he couldn't jump, but what would you do to have KT right now? 1,110 pro games! 8pts and 6 boards career averages. Couldn't jump a lick, but just a really savy player that helped some teams win games.

Replace Randle with a better player? Easier said than done.

I'm okay with the KT comp... I was think David Lee myself

KT was a great defender, rebounder and enforcer on a team that needed one after the departures of Oakley and Mase. He was a great fit and was not the star or the highest paid player on the team.

Randle is a player in the Charles Smith, Loy Vaught, Maurice Taylor mold, a 20-10 power forward who carries a really crappy team on the road to nowhere. Great for a fantasy team, useless if you need wins for a real team.

fwk00 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Most opinions on here are filled with preconceived notions. With little true perspective. Except for mine. Randle is our best player. He has the ability to get a double double every game. Usually does. Yet NO ONE cares. He shot 70% last night. Had 3 assists in the first 7 minutes. Had 6 and 5 previous two games. Yet all anyone wants to to is emphasize his turnovers(Spinners). Although he only had 2 TO's which for the primary option is nothing. Why? He takes minutes away from the fans dreams? Or maybe cuz of pre conceived expectations. Fans thought we should be winning the East after paying ONE guy over 20 Million. Which btw is one of the reasons NO ONE wants to come here. NY fans just hate anyone that gets paid and does not bring us a chip. Look, Randle is by far NOT the first player I think of as a teams first option but the fact is HE IS. Until we get one that is better or he is traded. But he is not getting benched.

Second reality is that we have promising young players but unfortunately there are no saviors in the bunch. Probably just good rotation players. Too many DREAMERS on the board. Ones who want starting line up changes for any young draft pick that can play a little defense or shows a glimmer of talent. Fact is most will be possible role players on good teams. The thirst for a savior is high. I get it. But lets look at some true perspective from last nights game to bring things into REALITY and to make this point. Quick had a good game. Great energy, motor and made things happen. HOWEVER the kid shot 27%!! from 2. 16% from three!! All against the third string team of the CAVS. He had the same 2 TO's as Smith and Randle but is now hailed as our new starting PG? Randle shot 70% but crickets. Robinson had 3 fouls in first quarter if not for the third string line up that played most of the second half, he would have fouled out within his 20 minute average. Smith as bad as he played in his first 5 minutes, had 5 Steals and 2 Blocks, shot 50% from 2 and 3. If Frank had done that the Frank cult would be storming MSG this morning demanding he be given a max. Toppin had four great lob dunks? What else? Scored just 8 points (Same as Smith less than half of Randle). Not hating on any of the players. Love MR, Tops and Quick. Have come to appreciated Franks role. But lets stop the thing we do.

Like everyone else, I am happy for our young kids that played well yesterday. I like their energy. Feel they are fun to watch. Looking forward to their progress and contribution. Hoping they get lots of playing time the last quarter of the season. Unlike some I am not doing what Knick fans are famous for doing, over hype their own players that they feel "Play how they want them to play" or have one good quarter. Despite the dreams of many(myself included) the reality is we will be a lottery team. We have many unproven young players. Our most experienced and consistent NBA players are still Randle, Rivers, Burks, Noel, Bullock and Barrett. Those are the guys that will be getting the most playing time and who Thibs knows will give him the best chance to win. Of course that is fluid. The rest are works in progress and have yet proven to be good enough to make a good teams rotation. Looking forward to the days we have enough talent to prevent a whole bunch of "Start the mediocre player" threads. Will also keep rooting for this reality with NO expectations. Except for the one that this FO knows this is the reality and will make moves to trade our dreams for a better reality.

But if anyone disagrees I will be happy to read the many dream scenarios? Need my daily fix of them.

Randle is not our best player but he is a necessary and useful player. Thibs said it best when he said, "It's not about who starts but about who finishes". Obie needs time to learn the NBA game and the league. Randle gives him cover. That's enough. Let him play out the year and see how that goes.

Frankie is not a starter (at least until he establishes his offensive credentials). He is better off the ball but also better when flanked by a scoring one or two. I think, as usual, his minutes will be constrained but important finishing minutes in games where defense is key to winning the last minutes of a game.

We have promising chemistry - not savior-itis. Covid has skewed a lot of things this year. The off-season signing of so many cookie cutter, flawed 'B' players I think is preemptive inoculation against in-season Covid absences. That and miscalculations on the availability of Rivers.

I've long advocated that Payton still had potential. He's a year more senior than Frankie and also was a high draft pick. This really should be is transformational year. Yet these early games are exposing no offensive growth (so far). With Rivers, Burks, MKG, and Quickley adding pressure to that position. Payton may be moved early or MKG cut. It's Monty Python scaled redundancy.

DSJ is the Forrest Gump of this PG mix. He did a few good things against the Cavs JV team that will be difficult to repeat against league play. Still, he *tried* and got a few kudos for doing so. Given his guardian angels, maybe he sticks long enough to learn the game.

I'm guessing starters of Payton, Rivers, Barrett, Randle, and Noel. Second unit DSJ, Burks, Bullock, Obie, and Mitch.

Finishers/Gamechangers: Frankie, Quickley, Knox

Agree with a lot of this. Who do you think is our best player? Maybe RJ.

In terms of rotation, keep in mind Thibs likes an 8 or 9 man rotation. We may not have a full second unit. Will be interesting to see who and how many make the rotation.

Well Thibs will experiment for a few games but we were both close to what played out so far. Payton has got to be on a short leash given the empirical evidence.

My fear is that, yet again, the FO is minimizing Ntilikina's participation for political reasons. If Frank looks good he creates a headache for Thibs because the fans love him while Thibs prefers the competitive romance of hardened vets.

As a Frankie fan, I'm burned out with it all. Trade him somewhere where he can play. He's a great prospect who will blossom elsewhere, F all the FOs here. Enough is enough.

BTW, Thibs is playing the trian...... Better to not mention it.

RJ trying but as mentioned he still needs to prove he can be consistent. Looked the part first game and struggled next three. So much for the Frank political conspiracy. Got his chance. Playing okay but will probably be back on the bench once Quicks gets back. Randle still our best player after 4 games.

HofstraBBall wrote:Most opinions on here are filled with preconceived notions. With little true perspective. Except for mine. Randle is our best player. He has the ability to get a double double every game. Usually does. Yet NO ONE cares. He shot 70% last night. Had 3 assists in the first 7 minutes. Had 6 and 5 previous two games. Yet all anyone wants to to is emphasize his turnovers(Spinners). Although he only had 2 TO's which for the primary option is nothing. Why? He takes minutes away from the fans dreams? Or maybe cuz of pre conceived expectations. Fans thought we should be winning the East after paying ONE guy over 20 Million. Which btw is one of the reasons NO ONE wants to come here. NY fans just hate anyone that gets paid and does not bring us a chip. Look, Randle is by far NOT the first player I think of as a teams first option but the fact is HE IS. Until we get one that is better or he is traded. But he is not getting benched.

Second reality is that we have promising young players but unfortunately there are no saviors in the bunch. Probably just good rotation players. Too many DREAMERS on the board. Ones who want starting line up changes for any young draft pick that can play a little defense or shows a glimmer of talent. Fact is most will be possible role players on good teams. The thirst for a savior is high. I get it. But lets look at some true perspective from last nights game to bring things into REALITY and to make this point. Quick had a good game. Great energy, motor and made things happen. HOWEVER the kid shot 27%!! from 2. 16% from three!! All against the third string team of the CAVS. He had the same 2 TO's as Smith and Randle but is now hailed as our new starting PG? Randle shot 70% but crickets. Robinson had 3 fouls in first quarter if not for the third string line up that played most of the second half, he would have fouled out within his 20 minute average. Smith as bad as he played in his first 5 minutes, had 5 Steals and 2 Blocks, shot 50% from 2 and 3. If Frank had done that the Frank cult would be storming MSG this morning demanding he be given a max. Toppin had four great lob dunks? What else? Scored just 8 points (Same as Smith less than half of Randle). Not hating on any of the players. Love MR, Tops and Quick. Have come to appreciated Franks role. But lets stop the thing we do.

Like everyone else, I am happy for our young kids that played well yesterday. I like their energy. Feel they are fun to watch. Looking forward to their progress and contribution. Hoping they get lots of playing time the last quarter of the season. Unlike some I am not doing what Knick fans are famous for doing, over hype their own players that they feel "Play how they want them to play" or have one good quarter. Despite the dreams of many(myself included) the reality is we will be a lottery team. We have many unproven young players. Our most experienced and consistent NBA players are still Randle, Rivers, Burks, Noel, Bullock and Barrett. Those are the guys that will be getting the most playing time and who Thibs knows will give him the best chance to win. Of course that is fluid. The rest are works in progress and have yet proven to be good enough to make a good teams rotation. Looking forward to the days we have enough talent to prevent a whole bunch of "Start the mediocre player" threads. Will also keep rooting for this reality with NO expectations. Except for the one that this FO knows this is the reality and will make moves to trade our dreams for a better reality.

But if anyone disagrees I will be happy to read the many dream scenarios? Need my daily fix of them.

An update to our reality late in the season. Was right about most of what I thought this team was EXCEPT for ONE thing....this team is NOT a LOTTERY team!! It is freaking awesome to see. Glad to be proven wrong on our potential for success. The way the team has played recently and how they pulled away from the Bulls last night shows they are elite. They have several solid weapons that all elite teams have. They have a star player and a couple of cusp stars in the making. It's been great watching Randle's prove me right. He has morphed into one of the best young players in the NBA. Even being favored over guys like Zion by some. Lol Also happy for the vets and how they are showing why Thibs has counted on them throughout the season. Yes, including Payton. By far the biggest current reality is that we are not only one of the top defensive teams but also one of the best shooting teams in the NBA. Yep, I said shooting. Thibs gets credit for the defense and all the extra hard work/shooting from our hungry players gets the credit for the increased shooting percentage. Great to see and definitely unexpected.

At this point, feel like the reality for this teams has no ceiling. Our guys have improved, worked hard and proved many wrong. Including myself. Looking forward to them continuing to build. How ever they end up this year, the reality is they have the right FO, Coach and are heading in the right direction!!