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OT: What's Wrong With Buddy Hield? I Like Him For NYK
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NardDogNation
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11/29/2020  5:37 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/29/2020  5:38 PM
It seems like Buddy Hield could've been basically had as a salary dump this offseason yet most teams passed. I understand the rationale for the Raptors, Heat and Mavericks-all of whom are eligible contenders in the Giannis sweepstakes- by why would we pass on him?

Hield is overpaid and his salary does extend beyond the 2021 offseason but we'll have an abundance of cap space in any case and could have used his shooting ability (~40 3FG%). Seems like he would've been a sensible addition, despite being 28 years old. Worst case scenario is that we dump him to another team with only 2 seasons remaining on a frontloaded contract. Am I missing something?
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ramtour420
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11/29/2020  5:42 PM
NardDogNation wrote:It seems like Buddy Hield could've been basically had as a salary dump this offseason yet most teams passed. I understand the rationale for the Raptors, Heat and Mavericks-all of whom are eligible contenders in the Giannis sweepstakes- by why would we pass on him?

Hield is overpaid and his salary does extend beyond the 2021 offseason but we'll have an abundance of cap space in any case and could have used his shooting ability (~40 3FG%). Seems like he would've been a sensible addition, despite being 28 years old. Worst case scenario is that we dump him to another team with only 2 seasons remaining on a frontloaded contract. Am I missing something?


Maybe it's a real rebuild? He would be taking minutes away from the kids. That's a move you make a couple of years down the line when we consistently make the playoffs at least.
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
Allanfan20
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11/29/2020  6:01 PM
ramtour420 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:It seems like Buddy Hield could've been basically had as a salary dump this offseason yet most teams passed. I understand the rationale for the Raptors, Heat and Mavericks-all of whom are eligible contenders in the Giannis sweepstakes- by why would we pass on him?

Hield is overpaid and his salary does extend beyond the 2021 offseason but we'll have an abundance of cap space in any case and could have used his shooting ability (~40 3FG%). Seems like he would've been a sensible addition, despite being 28 years old. Worst case scenario is that we dump him to another team with only 2 seasons remaining on a frontloaded contract. Am I missing something?


Maybe it's a real rebuild? He would be taking minutes away from the kids. That's a move you make a couple of years down the line when we consistently make the playoffs at least.

Yup. You build around your superstar not around everyone else.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
NardDogNation
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11/29/2020  6:17 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/29/2020  6:18 PM
ramtour420 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:It seems like Buddy Hield could've been basically had as a salary dump this offseason yet most teams passed. I understand the rationale for the Raptors, Heat and Mavericks-all of whom are eligible contenders in the Giannis sweepstakes- by why would we pass on him?

Hield is overpaid and his salary does extend beyond the 2021 offseason but we'll have an abundance of cap space in any case and could have used his shooting ability (~40 3FG%). Seems like he would've been a sensible addition, despite being 28 years old. Worst case scenario is that we dump him to another team with only 2 seasons remaining on a frontloaded contract. Am I missing something?


Maybe it's a real rebuild? He would be taking minutes away from the kids. That's a move you make a couple of years down the line when we consistently make the playoffs at least.

Which kids would he be taking time away from? The only 2-guard we have is RJ Barrett and he's better suited to be a forward, IMO. And part of the reason the development of our youth has stagnated is because of how bad our floor-spacing is. Players like Barrett or Knox can't develop their ability to get to the basket because of how easy it is for teams to pack driving lanes/paint. Floor spacers like Hield would change all of that.
ESOMKnicks
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11/29/2020  6:35 PM
Perhaps you might want to revisit the assumption that he could have been had for nothing in a salary dump. Based on this, for example:

https://clutchpoints.com/kings-news-buddy-hield-trade-value-has-finally-been-revealed/
BigDaddyG
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11/29/2020  6:54 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/29/2020  6:58 PM
ESOMKnicks wrote:Perhaps you might want to revisit the assumption that he could have been had for nothing in a salary dump. Based on this, for example:

https://clutchpoints.com/kings-news-buddy-hield-trade-value-has-finally-been-revealed/


Yep, I assume their plans for Hield were contingent on what happened with Bogie. With Bogie gone, they're are in no real hurry to clear salary. As for his fit with the Knicks, we need solid playmaking more than anything. Hield wouldn't look nearly as good here.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
martin
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11/29/2020  7:02 PM
NardDogNation wrote:It seems like Buddy Hield could've been basically had as a salary dump this offseason yet most teams passed. I understand the rationale for the Raptors, Heat and Mavericks-all of whom are eligible contenders in the Giannis sweepstakes- by why would we pass on him?

Hield is overpaid and his salary does extend beyond the 2021 offseason but we'll have an abundance of cap space in any case and could have used his shooting ability (~40 3FG%). Seems like he would've been a sensible addition, despite being 28 years old. Worst case scenario is that we dump him to another team with only 2 seasons remaining on a frontloaded contract. Am I missing something?

Yes, SAC knew Bogie was going to get an offer and that Buddy would be their only SG left on roster.

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Uptown
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11/29/2020  7:04 PM
Heild doesn't move the needle for us at all, so why add him @ that salary with a contract that extends to 23-24? If we are actually rebuilding, you don't add a player like Heild @ that salary at this point in the rebuild. Especially when you consider that he's a 3rd or 4th option at best. No thanks!
NardDogNation
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11/29/2020  7:27 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/29/2020  7:37 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:It seems like Buddy Hield could've been basically had as a salary dump this offseason yet most teams passed. I understand the rationale for the Raptors, Heat and Mavericks-all of whom are eligible contenders in the Giannis sweepstakes- by why would we pass on him?

Hield is overpaid and his salary does extend beyond the 2021 offseason but we'll have an abundance of cap space in any case and could have used his shooting ability (~40 3FG%). Seems like he would've been a sensible addition, despite being 28 years old. Worst case scenario is that we dump him to another team with only 2 seasons remaining on a frontloaded contract. Am I missing something?


Maybe it's a real rebuild? He would be taking minutes away from the kids. That's a move you make a couple of years down the line when we consistently make the playoffs at least.

Yup. You build around your superstar not around everyone else.



I'm not sure how Hield's acquisition would deter from that. At the end of the day, we have to get to a $100 million cap floor yet have a roster of players on their rookie contracts (save Julius Randle). Hield is expensive but his contract will represent a smaller proportion of the cap floor/cap moving forward because it is front-loaded. So what would have been the harm? It's a better alternative than lighting cap space on fire every single offseason signing guys like Wayne Ellington and Alec Burke to one year deals.
NardDogNation
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11/29/2020  7:31 PM
martin wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:It seems like Buddy Hield could've been basically had as a salary dump this offseason yet most teams passed. I understand the rationale for the Raptors, Heat and Mavericks-all of whom are eligible contenders in the Giannis sweepstakes- by why would we pass on him?

Hield is overpaid and his salary does extend beyond the 2021 offseason but we'll have an abundance of cap space in any case and could have used his shooting ability (~40 3FG%). Seems like he would've been a sensible addition, despite being 28 years old. Worst case scenario is that we dump him to another team with only 2 seasons remaining on a frontloaded contract. Am I missing something?

Yes, SAC knew Bogie was going to get an offer and that Buddy would be their only SG left on roster.

But the Kings were rumored to prefer Bogdanovic; understandably so since he is the better player. They couldn't keep both because of cost concerns, which lead me to believe that we could have approached them with an offer to take Hield off their hands for cheap.
NardDogNation
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11/29/2020  7:35 PM
ESOMKnicks wrote:Perhaps you might want to revisit the assumption that he could have been had for nothing in a salary dump. Based on this, for example:

https://clutchpoints.com/kings-news-buddy-hield-trade-value-has-finally-been-revealed/

Fair. Seems like everyone from the ESPN (Windhorst, Lowe, McMahon and I believe Woj) was of the opinion that Hield was a negative asset, which informed my assumptions. I don't think it was a stretch to speculate that the Kings preferred Bogdanovic though, since they were starting him at the end of the year over Hield. So why wouldn't they want to dump Hield and match Bogdanovic's cheaper offer?
BigDaddyG
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11/29/2020  7:41 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
martin wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:It seems like Buddy Hield could've been basically had as a salary dump this offseason yet most teams passed. I understand the rationale for the Raptors, Heat and Mavericks-all of whom are eligible contenders in the Giannis sweepstakes- by why would we pass on him?

Hield is overpaid and his salary does extend beyond the 2021 offseason but we'll have an abundance of cap space in any case and could have used his shooting ability (~40 3FG%). Seems like he would've been a sensible addition, despite being 28 years old. Worst case scenario is that we dump him to another team with only 2 seasons remaining on a frontloaded contract. Am I missing something?

Yes, SAC knew Bogie was going to get an offer and that Buddy would be their only SG left on roster.

But the Kings were rumored to prefer Bogdanovic; understandably so since he is the better player. They couldn't keep both because of cost concerns, which lead me to believe that we could have approached them with an offer to take Hield off their hands for cheap.


Bogie wanted to leave. He was already headed to Milwaukee as far as they were concerned. Of course, they had to deal with the Milwaukee F@#k-ups and eventually had to pivot.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
NardDogNation
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11/29/2020  7:49 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
martin wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:It seems like Buddy Hield could've been basically had as a salary dump this offseason yet most teams passed. I understand the rationale for the Raptors, Heat and Mavericks-all of whom are eligible contenders in the Giannis sweepstakes- by why would we pass on him?

Hield is overpaid and his salary does extend beyond the 2021 offseason but we'll have an abundance of cap space in any case and could have used his shooting ability (~40 3FG%). Seems like he would've been a sensible addition, despite being 28 years old. Worst case scenario is that we dump him to another team with only 2 seasons remaining on a frontloaded contract. Am I missing something?

Yes, SAC knew Bogie was going to get an offer and that Buddy would be their only SG left on roster.

But the Kings were rumored to prefer Bogdanovic; understandably so since he is the better player. They couldn't keep both because of cost concerns, which lead me to believe that we could have approached them with an offer to take Hield off their hands for cheap.


Bogie wanted to leave. He was already headed to Milwaukee as far as they were concerned. Of course, they had to deal with the Milwaukee F@#k-ups and eventually had to pivot.

Well, why wouldn't they have traded him at the deadline if that were common knowledge?
BigDaddyG
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11/29/2020  7:55 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
martin wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:It seems like Buddy Hield could've been basically had as a salary dump this offseason yet most teams passed. I understand the rationale for the Raptors, Heat and Mavericks-all of whom are eligible contenders in the Giannis sweepstakes- by why would we pass on him?

Hield is overpaid and his salary does extend beyond the 2021 offseason but we'll have an abundance of cap space in any case and could have used his shooting ability (~40 3FG%). Seems like he would've been a sensible addition, despite being 28 years old. Worst case scenario is that we dump him to another team with only 2 seasons remaining on a frontloaded contract. Am I missing something?

Yes, SAC knew Bogie was going to get an offer and that Buddy would be their only SG left on roster.

But the Kings were rumored to prefer Bogdanovic; understandably so since he is the better player. They couldn't keep both because of cost concerns, which lead me to believe that we could have approached them with an offer to take Hield off their hands for cheap.


Bogie wanted to leave. He was already headed to Milwaukee as far as they were concerned. Of course, they had to deal with the Milwaukee F@#k-ups and eventually had to pivot.

Well, why wouldn't they have traded him at the deadline if that were common knowledge?

Who knows when he made it known. Deals like the one involving the Bucks, even that failed miserably, take some time to develop. They don't just formulate at the beginning of the FA period. Maybe he let them know a month or weeks out. Who knows?

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
NardDogNation
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11/29/2020  8:31 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:
martin wrote:
NardDogNation wrote:It seems like Buddy Hield could've been basically had as a salary dump this offseason yet most teams passed. I understand the rationale for the Raptors, Heat and Mavericks-all of whom are eligible contenders in the Giannis sweepstakes- by why would we pass on him?

Hield is overpaid and his salary does extend beyond the 2021 offseason but we'll have an abundance of cap space in any case and could have used his shooting ability (~40 3FG%). Seems like he would've been a sensible addition, despite being 28 years old. Worst case scenario is that we dump him to another team with only 2 seasons remaining on a frontloaded contract. Am I missing something?

Yes, SAC knew Bogie was going to get an offer and that Buddy would be their only SG left on roster.

But the Kings were rumored to prefer Bogdanovic; understandably so since he is the better player. They couldn't keep both because of cost concerns, which lead me to believe that we could have approached them with an offer to take Hield off their hands for cheap.


Bogie wanted to leave. He was already headed to Milwaukee as far as they were concerned. Of course, they had to deal with the Milwaukee F@#k-ups and eventually had to pivot.

Well, why wouldn't they have traded him at the deadline if that were common knowledge?

Who knows when he made it known. Deals like the one involving the Bucks, even that failed miserably, take some time to develop. They don't just formulate at the beginning of the FA period. Maybe he let them know a month or weeks out. Who knows?

Bogdanovic was a restricted free agent, so none of this came down to what he wants. If the Kings wanted him, they could've kept him if for no other reason than as an asset play at a later date. It's not like they would've gotten stuck with that contract since there were a number of teams interested in signing him before the Hawks offer sheet. I just don't understand the Kings and their decision-making.
Knixkik
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11/29/2020  9:36 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/29/2020  9:37 PM
My guess is the knicks probably had 2 or 3 scenarios where they make win now moves in the offseason, otherwise they were just going to build from within. Common sense says Hayward/Westbrook pairing alongside RJ, Obi and Mitch was one scenario. Hield, while useful and a great fit, probably falls in between the all or nothing approach that they took. He’s a middle of the road improvement that makes them a little better but not anything significant. With the draft shaping up to be strong and enough talent where getting a particular pick doesn’t matter, they just want to have a chance to be in the mix, I'm guessing they have opted against any marginal improvement moves like Hield.
smackeddog
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11/30/2020  3:21 AM
His highlights are fun to watch, think the beef with him is he's a terrible defender, a chucker and streaky, plus if he's unhappy he lets everyone know about it. Still, great highlights and a great shooter- I was tempted. The $20mil cap hit wouldn't bother me because I think the problem will be getting ANYONE to sign here over the next couple of years- don't think we need near total max space or we're going to be scrambling each offseason just to fill out the roster.
ESOMKnicks
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11/30/2020  6:00 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/30/2020  6:01 AM
Yeah, I really like Buddy too, remembering how he lit us up last season. If it were to cost us only cap space to get him, I would be tempted, 20 PPG and 40% 3PT shooting is nothing to sneeze at even at his large contract, and what if he turns into the next Mitch Richmond or Allan Houston. But as I said before, for a great player that he is, where are the wins?
It might have been a combination of the Kings wanting more than a firesale return on the trade, and the Knicks not being ready to part with assets for a middle-of-the-road move. And maybe it is a good thing that it did not happen.
Nalod
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11/30/2020  8:30 AM
Fans can look at 29 teams and think “What about this,,,,,,What about that” and think if its an upgrade why the hell not?
Some where there is a grease board with names on it. Knick players, trade targets, FA targets and Draft. There is a price to pay for each and a time sequence. Cap space matters.
Knicks or an other team won’t divulge their plans as it puts them at a disadvantage to reveal it.
Buddy would be an upgrade today. The opportunity cost to bring him in is not transparent or not realized yet.
Gordon Haywood was an opportunity at one price. Not at what he got.
Chandler
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11/30/2020  9:36 AM
I was very intrigued with some form of Hield for Randle type swap. to some degree still am. I think two big concerns is he's not as good as his contract -- so that's a negative, and not sure about culture fit. Strikes me as a bit of a bellyacher. Take that with a grain of salt because he's in Sacramento which competes with us and a few other teams for most dysfunctional. I suspect he could be a real asset on a good team that needs shooting and where winning might assuage whatever bellyaches he has

on a separate but related note: De'aaron Fox just got way, way overpaid. And then there's Bagley...

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