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Should we try to trade for the #2 with Golden State?
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TheGame
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8/20/2020  8:58 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/20/2020  8:59 PM
Not sure we have the assets, but I know Golden State is willing to trade. We have the 8, 27, and 39 pick. Would you give them all up for Ball? I think Minny takes Edwards, so Ball should be there.
Trust the Process
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90sKnicks
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8/20/2020  9:01 PM
No, but I'm terrified the NBA has already orchestrated this between the teams since nothing about the draft is random
HofstraBBall
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8/20/2020  9:04 PM
TheGame wrote:Not sure we have the assets, but I know Golden State is willing to trade. We have the 8, 27, and 39 pick. Would you give them all up for Ball? I think Minny takes Edwards, so Ball should be there.

Please no. Would be a desparate irrational move. Which guarantees that the Knicks will do it.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
TheGame
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8/20/2020  9:11 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
TheGame wrote:Not sure we have the assets, but I know Golden State is willing to trade. We have the 8, 27, and 39 pick. Would you give them all up for Ball? I think Minny takes Edwards, so Ball should be there.

Please no. Would be a desparate irrational move. Which guarantees that the Knicks will do it.

I tend to agree. I want Ball bad, but I think we should stand pat and just take was is available and hope that with 3 picks, we can hopefully find a diamond.

Trust the Process
ekstarks94
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8/20/2020  9:26 PM
GS is not taking 3 picks...they want a pick and a contribute now player....
smackeddog
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8/21/2020  5:09 AM
ekstarks94 wrote:GS is not taking 3 picks...they want a pick and a contribute now player....

They can't afford to take on salary- I only see them trading their pick to offload Wiggins, or to move down in the top ten to save the salary hit (isn't the number 2 pick something like around $7mil per, which is huge onto of their $145mil per year), so they'd need a pick back.

On the Knicks Fan TV podcast, the bulls guy and Spencer Pearlman said the two teams that loved Deni are the Bulls and the Warriors, so the way the lottery fell made things complicated for the Warriors- they can't really trade down by much to take Deni because the Bulls are at 4. Do they want to give Deni $7.5mil per and take him at 2? Not sure.

I like Ball, but he's too risky to trade up for, especially if the price was Mitch and our first or the Dallas pick.
shinmen
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8/21/2020  5:21 AM
I really hope the FO does not trade up. We can grab a role player that fits this year.
I don't know where all the lottery prospects would fare in last year draft. I reckon every one would see his draft stock fell by 3 or 4 slots.
Next year, we have 1st rd picks in a better perceived draft. We can't take 19 years old raw prospects every year.
wargames
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8/21/2020  12:58 PM
I think the Pistons will do it. They got a lot of cap space, not a lot of young talent, trading Kennard + 7 for #2 Lamelo and Wiggins gives them pieces they need to just have a offense. Also the Warriors getting Okoro or Vessell (who should still be there) and Kennard Would be a major gain for them since they need guys like that on their roster to compete.
The algorithm gives and the algorithm takes away
fwk00
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8/21/2020  1:39 PM
smackeddog wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:GS is not taking 3 picks...they want a pick and a contribute now player....

They can't afford to take on salary- I only see them trading their pick to offload Wiggins, or to move down in the top ten to save the salary hit (isn't the number 2 pick something like around $7mil per, which is huge onto of their $145mil per year), so they'd need a pick back.

On the Knicks Fan TV podcast, the bulls guy and Spencer Pearlman said the two teams that loved Deni are the Bulls and the Warriors, so the way the lottery fell made things complicated for the Warriors- they can't really trade down by much to take Deni because the Bulls are at 4. Do they want to give Deni $7.5mil per and take him at 2? Not sure.

I like Ball, but he's too risky to trade up for, especially if the price was Mitch and our first or the Dallas pick.

Look, the coming season is going to be deeply compromised by the Corona effect. So a number of things have to be kept in mind.

Smart organizational planning will think about this carefully.

The idiot MSM led by loudmouths like Rachel claim that the GS pick is for sale. I think not. If Deni is their guy, they draft him and leave him play out a year in Europe - no tax hit, no loss.

For teams who plan to contend, a short season means the season is a sprint and not a long distance race. There will be no time to "develop" much of anyone. The Knicks can't play in that sandbox. The shortened, unpredictable season is an opportunity to assess current assets and make decisions for hardening the roster as it plays out.

It also means that a salary cap strapped team may want that 8th pick to stash away that other European stringbean lurking in the top ten polls.

So I wouldn't be so quick to believe what you hear.

Also, GS is a rich team. Money is rarely a stumbling block.
Jimbo5
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8/21/2020  6:22 PM
There is a high chance the Warriors will trade #2, and Knicks being the knicks it seem this will be their first big offseason move. Il be ok with it as long as they keep our 1st round pick next year out of it. Il be ok with giving them 8 and 27 or 8 and next year's mavs pick. I don't think it will be enough though and giving Randle will not work with their salary cap.

I just hope the FO realizes that next year's 1st rounder will be much more valuable than Ball.
houston20
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8/21/2020  6:40 PM
I said before the draft and after the draft i didn't want lamelo ball because of his drama off court with his father nonsense. Sometimes the best picks is the one not made i see series bust potentional with lamelo ball.
TripleThreat
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8/21/2020  9:34 PM
wargames wrote:I think the Pistons will do it. They got a lot of cap space, not a lot of young talent, trading Kennard + 7 for #2 Lamelo and Wiggins gives them pieces they need to just have a offense. Also the Warriors getting Okoro or Vessell (who should still be there) and Kennard Would be a major gain for them since they need guys like that on their roster to compete.

That's an interesting trade scenario, if you started a new thread with it, I think you'd get more discussion on it and create some new pathways.
smackeddog
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8/22/2020  3:57 AM
fwk00 wrote:
smackeddog wrote:
ekstarks94 wrote:GS is not taking 3 picks...they want a pick and a contribute now player....

They can't afford to take on salary- I only see them trading their pick to offload Wiggins, or to move down in the top ten to save the salary hit (isn't the number 2 pick something like around $7mil per, which is huge onto of their $145mil per year), so they'd need a pick back.

On the Knicks Fan TV podcast, the bulls guy and Spencer Pearlman said the two teams that loved Deni are the Bulls and the Warriors, so the way the lottery fell made things complicated for the Warriors- they can't really trade down by much to take Deni because the Bulls are at 4. Do they want to give Deni $7.5mil per and take him at 2? Not sure.

I like Ball, but he's too risky to trade up for, especially if the price was Mitch and our first or the Dallas pick.

Look, the coming season is going to be deeply compromised by the Corona effect. So a number of things have to be kept in mind.

Smart organizational planning will think about this carefully.

The idiot MSM led by loudmouths like Rachel claim that the GS pick is for sale. I think not. If Deni is their guy, they draft him and leave him play out a year in Europe - no tax hit, no loss.

For teams who plan to contend, a short season means the season is a sprint and not a long distance race. There will be no time to "develop" much of anyone. The Knicks can't play in that sandbox. The shortened, unpredictable season is an opportunity to assess current assets and make decisions for hardening the roster as it plays out.

It also means that a salary cap strapped team may want that 8th pick to stash away that other European stringbean lurking in the top ten polls.

So I wouldn't be so quick to believe what you hear.

Also, GS is a rich team. Money is rarely a stumbling block.

Don't overlook how much even usually wealthy teams are going to start struggling with zero fans or events in arenas:

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/golden-state-warriors-loan-goldman-sachs-covid-costs-nba

Report: Golden State Warriors look to raise US$250m to cover Covid-19 costs

Other NBA team owners also considering opportunities to raise capital.

The Golden State Warriors are looking to raise ‘up to US$250 million’ to manage expenses resulting from the coronavirus pandemic, according to ESPN.

The sports media giant says the National Basketball Association (NBA) franchise’s owner Joe Lacob has told fellow owners of a deal he is considering with investment bank Goldman Sachs about a loan.

A report in the Athletic noted that the Warriors have not yet finalised a deal with Goldman Sachs, adding that alternative options, including cash calls, are also being explored.

NBA broadcasts to include immersive Microsoft fan experiences for restart

The reports come with NBA franchises set to miss out on significant ticket revenue as a result of the remainder of the 2019/20 season being played behind closed doors in Orlando, and it remains unclear if fans will be allowed to attend teams’ home venues when the 2020/21 campaign begins.

According to Forbes’ most recent list of NBA team valuations, the Warriors revenue for the 2018/19 season was US$440 million, with US$178 million coming from gate receipts.

ESPN’s report said the Warriors are particularly reliant upon their at Chase Center home, generating ‘around 80 per cent’ of their revenue from the US$1.6 billion arena, which reportedly brings in ‘more than US$5 million’ for some home games.

Speaking on a call heard by ESPN back in May, NBA commissioner Adam Silver told the league’s players that 40 per cent of the North American basketball organisation’s revenue comes from money generated on game nights in arenas.

Other NBA owners are ‘investigating opportunities to raise capital’, ESPN added, also noting that some are pursuing legal action against insurance companies that have denied claims related to the pandemic.

The NBA’s 30 franchises generated US$8.8 billion in revenue last season, according to Forbes, but ESPN previously reported that the league is projecting a total loss in excess of US$1 billion due to Covid-19.
xblvdels3
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8/22/2020  9:02 AM
some of you LaMelo ball fans are so excited to see mix tape passing, dribble,28 percent three point shooting and horrible defense that you are wiling to give away 3 picks this year and 3 picks next year just for him.


That’s a no!!!
xblvdels3
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8/22/2020  9:09 AM
He is 6-7 the same way Kevin Knox is 6-9.

Believe it or not there will be pgs next year.

Millions of young men are born every year with dreams of being an nba pg :)
TripleThreat
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8/22/2020  11:18 AM
TheGame wrote:Not sure we have the assets, but I know Golden State is willing to trade. We have the 8, 27, and 39 pick. Would you give them all up for Ball? I think Minny takes Edwards, so Ball should be there.


Golden State would trade No#2 overall plus their two 2nds this year for 8th overall, 38 and next years unprotected 1st round pick.

Not saying that's a good trade for the Knicks. GSW would want a shot at a high floor guy plus offer the Bucks two shots at Cade Cunningham and other things for Greek Freak.

The most likely pathway would be a four team trade involving GSW, Bucks, Detroit and the Knicks. Where the Knicks get Kris Middleton and Eric Bledsoe. I'm not saying that's a good trade for the Knicks either.
smackeddog
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8/22/2020  11:52 AM
This article thinks Ball could (not will) fall to Detroit:

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/why-lamelo-ball-is-still-within-the-knicks-reach-despite-an-unfavorable-drawing-in-nba-draft-lottery/
TripleThreat
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10/10/2020  1:21 AM


https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2020/10/08/lamelo-ball-news-knicks-warriors-2020-nba-draft-trade/


https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/2020/02/17/updated-warriors-future-draft-picks-following-the-nba-trade-deadline/

The Athletic's John Hollinger proposes Warriors-Knicks trade for No. 2 pick
Jacob Rude
October 8, 2020 2:35 pm

The New York Knicks are one of the more intriguing teams heading into the off-season. A new regime in the front office and a new coach could easily lead to a shake-up of a team that finished 21-45 last season.

The Knicks roster is a mash-up of talented players that do not fit together, making them terrific trade candidates. The Athletic’s Mike Vorkunov and John Hollinger took that idea and ran with it recently, putting together an entire article of Knicks trades.

Naturally, a deal involving the No. 2 pick came up and featured a more robust trade package than many others proposed before. While some have included Mitchell Robinson as a sweetener from the Knicks, Hollinger felt that alone didn’t make sense in the deal.

“Would a deal like that — (Kevon) Looney, (Jordan) Poole and the No. 2 pick for (Mitchell) Robinson and the No. 8 pick, with an additional first from the Warriors — be more palatable from New York’s perspective?”

Kevon Looney and Jordan Poole are two interesting players for the Knicks to take on. Poole had an up-and-down rookie season but would be a great fit on a Knicks team lacking guards. Looney would initially add to the dearth of bigs on the team but eating his contract to move up to the No. 2 pick is still worthwhile.

Moving up to the No. 2 pick should allow the Knicks the chance to draft LaMelo Ball

Below is an updated look at the Golden State’s draft picks for the next three seasons, according to RealGM.com.


2020:

-Golden State Warriors own first-round pick ( 2nd Overall)

-Dallas Mavericks second-round pick ( 48th)

-Utah Jazz second-round pick (51st)

2021:

-Golden State Warriors own first-round pick

-Minnesota Timberwolves first-round pick (protected top-3)

-Denver Nuggets second-round pick

-Minnesota Timberwolves second-round pick

2022:

-Golden State Warriors own first-round pick

-Golden State Warriors own second-round pick

-Toronto Raptors second-round pick


John Hollinger is suggesting:


Mitchell Robinson
2020 8th Overall
For
Kevon Looney
Jordan Poole
2020 2nd Overall
Additional heavily protected first round pick from Warriors (not in 2021, likely the 2022 pick)


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/looneke01.html


https://www.spotrac.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/kevon-looney-17858/


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/poolejo01.html


https://www.spotrac.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/jordan-poole-31587

Thoughts?
fwk00
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10/10/2020  9:04 AM
First things first.

LaMelo Ball will be available at 8 but why waste the pick that way?

Two. MR is a young player on an extremely team-friendly contract. Who in this draft 1-7 is going to give you that value proposition back that you can't draft at 8?

I think the entire Ball family has joined the UK Knicks forum to keep the "Let's trade down to 2" anti-meme going. This is simply not the draft to do that in. As with all drafts, a few stars will be drafted, a number of busts will be drafted, and there will be a handful of told-you-so, should-da, could-da, if-only misses by every team including the Knicks.

Personally, I think tier 1 level talent will be available at #8 which is a cost-effective place to be picking in this draft.

If I were in the FO, the most highly desirable asset I would trade into would be Deni Avdija. If #8 were traded however, I will lament that Vassell won't get a look here - seems like a perfect Thibs fit to me. Alan Hahn, who I follow would trade 8 for the opportunity to grab a starter.
fwk00
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10/10/2020  9:32 AM
TripleThreat wrote:


https://lonzowire.usatoday.com/2020/10/08/lamelo-ball-news-knicks-warriors-2020-nba-draft-trade/


https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/2020/02/17/updated-warriors-future-draft-picks-following-the-nba-trade-deadline/

The Athletic's John Hollinger proposes Warriors-Knicks trade for No. 2 pick
Jacob Rude
October 8, 2020 2:35 pm

The New York Knicks are one of the more intriguing teams heading into the off-season. A new regime in the front office and a new coach could easily lead to a shake-up of a team that finished 21-45 last season.

The Knicks roster is a mash-up of talented players that do not fit together, making them terrific trade candidates. The Athletic’s Mike Vorkunov and John Hollinger took that idea and ran with it recently, putting together an entire article of Knicks trades.

Naturally, a deal involving the No. 2 pick came up and featured a more robust trade package than many others proposed before. While some have included Mitchell Robinson as a sweetener from the Knicks, Hollinger felt that alone didn’t make sense in the deal.

“Would a deal like that — (Kevon) Looney, (Jordan) Poole and the No. 2 pick for (Mitchell) Robinson and the No. 8 pick, with an additional first from the Warriors — be more palatable from New York’s perspective?”

Kevon Looney and Jordan Poole are two interesting players for the Knicks to take on. Poole had an up-and-down rookie season but would be a great fit on a Knicks team lacking guards. Looney would initially add to the dearth of bigs on the team but eating his contract to move up to the No. 2 pick is still worthwhile.

Moving up to the No. 2 pick should allow the Knicks the chance to draft LaMelo Ball

Below is an updated look at the Golden State’s draft picks for the next three seasons, according to RealGM.com.


2020:

-Golden State Warriors own first-round pick ( 2nd Overall)

-Dallas Mavericks second-round pick ( 48th)

-Utah Jazz second-round pick (51st)

2021:

-Golden State Warriors own first-round pick

-Minnesota Timberwolves first-round pick (protected top-3)

-Denver Nuggets second-round pick

-Minnesota Timberwolves second-round pick

2022:

-Golden State Warriors own first-round pick

-Golden State Warriors own second-round pick

-Toronto Raptors second-round pick


John Hollinger is suggesting:


Mitchell Robinson
2020 8th Overall
For
Kevon Looney
Jordan Poole
2020 2nd Overall
Additional heavily protected first round pick from Warriors (not in 2021, likely the 2022 pick)


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/looneke01.html


https://www.spotrac.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/kevon-looney-17858/


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/poolejo01.html


https://www.spotrac.com/nba/golden-state-warriors/jordan-poole-31587

Thoughts?

This specific trade I guess deserves a more specific response.

So the Knicks would trade MR and replace him with Looney who is largely a role player at GS surrounded by super-stars. In NY Looney adds what value?

Poole? who?

Oh and a pick (near 30) but not in next year's loaded draft.

And the Knicks -cough- *haul* would be this year's version of the perennial rinse-and-repeat cycle of drafting and trading for PGs with no 3 point shot. Presumably because the Knicks have become professional masochists in trading away instead of developing any of them (going back to Strickland).

What ESPN is selling (aside from Knicks click-bait) is the idea that LaMelo (the poster-boy) *deserves* a much- larger, ego-feeding contract than his talent conveys AND in order to sell this side order of sh@t on a shingle it will require a NY presence to do so.

Hopefully we are smarter than that after all these decades.
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