The kid looks like a great athlete - but the thing I am worried about - I saw this in a video posted here on one of your other Wiseman is awesome threads- he just doesn't seem to have the grace of movement. Bad hands. Link below talks about heavy feet and bad hips and passing. I think Mitchell has more upside and fit. Our biggest need is PG. We get the first pick, I might pick Ball and hope he can develop and answer my questions about PG for the franchise:

Ball
Barrett
Robinson

Those are my big three, high impact skill players. Fill that roster out with grinders, guys that can defend, rebound and shoot the open three at a high percentage, and that is a team I think projects out to be a top team in the east as they mature and if they develop.

https://www.thestepien.com/2020/01/24/james-wiseman-scouting-report/

martin wrote:I am trying to figure out what people see fundamentally in Wiseman that they think he is more talented than someone like Mitch? Help me understand this. I get that he is more muscular.

Mitch is a twitch fast athlete. Hand control grabbing lobs is high. He has demonstrated that he is a defensive player of the year kind of talent. Endless motor.

Mitch does lack fundamentals, late bloomer cause of lack of playing. Zero demonstrated shot. Seems like a worker but really can't tell.

Wiseman has a long way to go to, just like Mitch.

What would convince anyone that Wiseman would be a better big in the NBA than say Onyeka Okongwu, outside of being taller?

Wiseman is a higher end guy than Mitch IMO... I think we are so bad that positions and roster is irrelevant. You take the BPA and go from there. Wiseman was my preseason #1 overall. He was with Penny Hardaway through AAU and came to Memphis and stayed with him. He knows how to play and I think is more complete than Mitch, even though they bring similar stats to the table. I really like how Wiseman seeks out contact and bangs down low. It reminds me of Pat or Zo. I wish we had the tournament to evaluate some of these guys. I will say Wiseman is a bluechip type of guy but we all know this is a guard's league these days. My biggest issue with Wiseman is it is kinda like drafting a RB or WR #1 overall

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

martin wrote:I am trying to figure out what people see fundamentally in Wiseman that they think he is more talented than someone like Mitch? Help me understand this. I get that he is more muscular.

Mitch is a twitch fast athlete. Hand control grabbing lobs is high. He has demonstrated that he is a defensive player of the year kind of talent. Endless motor.

Mitch does lack fundamentals, late bloomer cause of lack of playing. Zero demonstrated shot. Seems like a worker but really can't tell.

Wiseman has a long way to go to, just like Mitch.

What would convince anyone that Wiseman would be a better big in the NBA than say Onyeka Okongwu, outside of being taller?

Wiseman is a higher end guy than Mitch IMO... I think we are so bad that positions and roster is irrelevant. You take the BPA and go from there. Wiseman was my preseason #1 overall. He was with Penny Hardaway through AAU and came to Memphis and stayed with him. He knows how to play and I think is more complete than Mitch, even though they bring similar stats to the table. I really like how Wiseman seeks out contact and bangs down low. It reminds me of Pat or Zo. I wish we had the tournament to evaluate some of these guys. I will say Wiseman is a bluechip type of guy but we all know this is a guard's league these days. My biggest issue with Wiseman is it is kinda like drafting a RB or WR #1 overall

So that's what I'm trying to understand. How is he a higher end guy? He likes contact and...?

The outside shooting, ball handling and offensive moves we watch Mitch perform in summer instagram vids is what Wiseman does in actual games and then some. Its a big jump taking what you learn in training to the actual game. A jump Mitch hasn't made yet and in all honesty, we are not sure he will ever make. Wiseman has already made that jump. Of course, Wiseman still needs a lot more polish but he is a full notch ahead of Mitch on the offensive side of the ball.

Mitch gets his strictly on PNR lobs and put backs. You can legit, throw the ball to Wiseman in the post and he can get you a bucket with his back to the basket or facing up. He's also a threat to get the defender in foul trouble. Mitch is not at this level just yet. With that said, I like Mitch and what he brings to table. I'm not looking to move him, but we are so void of talent, if Wiseman is on the board when he pick, it will be difficult to pass him up...

Uptown wrote:

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

martin wrote:I am trying to figure out what people see fundamentally in Wiseman that they think he is more talented than someone like Mitch? Help me understand this. I get that he is more muscular.

Mitch is a twitch fast athlete. Hand control grabbing lobs is high. He has demonstrated that he is a defensive player of the year kind of talent. Endless motor.

Mitch does lack fundamentals, late bloomer cause of lack of playing. Zero demonstrated shot. Seems like a worker but really can't tell.

Wiseman has a long way to go to, just like Mitch.

What would convince anyone that Wiseman would be a better big in the NBA than say Onyeka Okongwu, outside of being taller?

Wiseman is a higher end guy than Mitch IMO... I think we are so bad that positions and roster is irrelevant. You take the BPA and go from there. Wiseman was my preseason #1 overall. He was with Penny Hardaway through AAU and came to Memphis and stayed with him. He knows how to play and I think is more complete than Mitch, even though they bring similar stats to the table. I really like how Wiseman seeks out contact and bangs down low. It reminds me of Pat or Zo. I wish we had the tournament to evaluate some of these guys. I will say Wiseman is a bluechip type of guy but we all know this is a guard's league these days. My biggest issue with Wiseman is it is kinda like drafting a RB or WR #1 overall

So that's what I'm trying to understand. How is he a higher end guy? He likes contact and...?

The outside shooting, ball handling and offensive moves we watch Mitch perform in summer instagram vids is what Wiseman does in actual games and then some. Its a big jump taking what you learn in training to the actual game. A jump Mitch hasn't made yet and in all honesty, we are not sure he will ever make. Wiseman has already made that jump. Of course, Wiseman still needs a lot more polish but he is a full notch ahead of Mitch on the offensive side of the ball.

Mitch gets his strictly on PNR lobs and put backs. You can legit, throw the ball to Wiseman in the post and he can get you a bucket with his back to the basket or facing up. He's also a threat to get the defender in foul trouble. Mitch is not at this level just yet. With that said, I like Mitch and what he brings to table. I'm not looking to move him, but we are so void of talent, if Wiseman is on the board when he pick, it will be difficult to pass him up...

It's my understanding that Wiseman has played 3 college games? 2 again some low level teams?

Has he really demonstrated much beyond that?

martin wrote:

Uptown wrote:

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

martin wrote:I am trying to figure out what people see fundamentally in Wiseman that they think he is more talented than someone like Mitch? Help me understand this. I get that he is more muscular.

Mitch is a twitch fast athlete. Hand control grabbing lobs is high. He has demonstrated that he is a defensive player of the year kind of talent. Endless motor.

Mitch does lack fundamentals, late bloomer cause of lack of playing. Zero demonstrated shot. Seems like a worker but really can't tell.

Wiseman has a long way to go to, just like Mitch.

What would convince anyone that Wiseman would be a better big in the NBA than say Onyeka Okongwu, outside of being taller?

Wiseman is a higher end guy than Mitch IMO... I think we are so bad that positions and roster is irrelevant. You take the BPA and go from there. Wiseman was my preseason #1 overall. He was with Penny Hardaway through AAU and came to Memphis and stayed with him. He knows how to play and I think is more complete than Mitch, even though they bring similar stats to the table. I really like how Wiseman seeks out contact and bangs down low. It reminds me of Pat or Zo. I wish we had the tournament to evaluate some of these guys. I will say Wiseman is a bluechip type of guy but we all know this is a guard's league these days. My biggest issue with Wiseman is it is kinda like drafting a RB or WR #1 overall

So that's what I'm trying to understand. How is he a higher end guy? He likes contact and...?

The outside shooting, ball handling and offensive moves we watch Mitch perform in summer instagram vids is what Wiseman does in actual games and then some. Its a big jump taking what you learn in training to the actual game. A jump Mitch hasn't made yet and in all honesty, we are not sure he will ever make. Wiseman has already made that jump. Of course, Wiseman still needs a lot more polish but he is a full notch ahead of Mitch on the offensive side of the ball.

Mitch gets his strictly on PNR lobs and put backs. You can legit, throw the ball to Wiseman in the post and he can get you a bucket with his back to the basket or facing up. He's also a threat to get the defender in foul trouble. Mitch is not at this level just yet. With that said, I like Mitch and what he brings to table. I'm not looking to move him, but we are so void of talent, if Wiseman is on the board when he pick, it will be difficult to pass him up...

It's my understanding that Wiseman has played 3 college games? 2 again some low level teams?

Has he really demonstrated much beyond that?

It's a small sample size, agreed. But, I have seen Wiseman catch the ball in the post, square-up and knock down 12 footers. I've seen him attempt jump hooks, and he is capable of putting the ball on the floor and make himself a threat offensively. We have yet to see Mitch attempt any of these skill sets in actual games.

With that said, I like Mitch better on the defensive end. Better lateral quickness on the perimeter and better shot blocker mainly because he uses his left hand to block shots.

Uptown wrote:Starting at the 4:45 mark, you get to see some of his potential offensively...

Looking at that, I see Mitch doing the same things.