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Interesting article on Thibs
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Jimbo5
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7/18/2020  10:52 AM
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-tom-thibodeau-belichick-knicks-coach-20200718-zuf6j2maqrembmudop56o3qaji-story.html

Aside from his passion and drive, this article shines the light on Thibs as the developmental Coach. I didnt realize that This had his hands on the improved play of quite a number of players, his Bulls starting 5- Rose, Noah, Butler, Deng.He also helped Yao. Even Wiggins had his best year statistically under Thibs. He also helped a 16 year old Kobe!

Thibs is a task master, expect him to push his players hard. I think our youth can match with Thibs' fire! Its been documented the our young players from Mitch to RJ to Frank and even with Knox sportswriter always mention their good work ethic. Hopefully this could be the right formula for success and finally we can start seeing the real players underneath the shells of our young core!

Somehow, im starting to think that thibs might be the right man for the job. Its also reported that while waiting for the decision from Leon Rose, Thibs is studying knicks films to pass his time.

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TheGame
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7/18/2020  12:12 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/18/2020  12:40 PM
Good article. My only hesitancy with Thibs is I think this team is still 1-2 years away from needing a "playoff coach" which is what i think Thibs is. When you bring in Thibs, the expectations immediately go up, and I honestly think in the long run, the team would benefit of one more year of tanking, with a focus on player development, which is a task that I think Miller would be uniquely well-suited to accomplish. But if they hire Thibs, I would not be upset. He clearly is a good coach, and he will teach the kids how to play hard and smart. With Taj Gibson on the team, I could not imagine Thibs wanting another job. If you are the coach that brings the Knicks back to a contender level then you will be set for life, and this roster is only 1-2 pieces away (and 1-2 years of player development away) from being a contender. The Philly job opening up would be the only other job I think he would seriously consider, but I don't think he is going to pass up the Knicks to wait to see if that job opens up.
Trust the Process
doomed
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7/18/2020  12:34 PM
Thibs makes so much sense for the Knicks it’s not even debatable. This franchise is begging for a drill sgt type HC that has pelts on his wall and despite what his detractors say, he’s got pelts. Bring thibs in, implement a cohesive and clear cut plan that everyone is behind and let thibs mold this team into a PRO unit of professionals. Done.
GustavBahler
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7/18/2020  12:58 PM
If Rose hires Thibs. And also is able to build a legit contender. Complete with legit stars (plural) in their prime, it might work if he doesnt run his starters into the ground.

If he cant recruit stars in the first 2 years as team president. With all the hype about "Worldwide Wes". And the team isnt going anywhere. They should all be promptly ****canned. Hire a coach with his rep as a coach who grinds down his best players. With plenty of other good option, better options out there. Then the front office shouldnt be given thw luxury of time.

TripleThreat
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7/18/2020  2:44 PM
Jimbo5 wrote:https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-tom-thibodeau-belichick-knicks-coach-20200718-zuf6j2maqrembmudop56o3qaji-story.html

Aside from his passion and drive, this article shines the light on Thibs as the developmental Coach. I didnt realize that This had his hands on the improved play of quite a number of players, his Bulls starting 5- Rose, Noah, Butler, Deng.He also helped Yao. Even Wiggins had his best year statistically under Thibs. He also helped a 16 year old Kobe!

Thibs is a task master, expect him to push his players hard. I think our youth can match with Thibs' fire! Its been documented the our young players from Mitch to RJ to Frank and even with Knox sportswriter always mention their good work ethic. Hopefully this could be the right formula for success and finally we can start seeing the real players underneath the shells of our young core!

Somehow, im starting to think that thibs might be the right man for the job. Its also reported that while waiting for the decision from Leon Rose, Thibs is studying knicks films to pass his time.


What usually happens is when a coaching candidate is very close to getting a job and once he gets the job, you'll see a ton of fluff pieces praising the coach.

It costs the sports media nothing. You pump the guy up a little and you try to ensure you have open good footing with the coach to start. The coach might break out and do well and if you've been panning him from the start, he's not going to make you doing your job any easier.

The sports media needs cooperation from franchises to do their job and keep their jobs.

If the coach fails later( he usually does), you can pan him at no cost and since he's going to be fired anyway, who cares if you burn that bridge?

This happened to Kobe Bryant late in his career. In the beginning, the press sort of held back because he was a superstar and was going to be around for a long time, but those last days with the Lakers, you started to see more hit pieces on him.

That **** always follows you. Shaq is an idiot. He's one of the dumbest sports broadcasters/personalities anywhere. But when he was a player, he made the media's job easier (gave them easy quotes/easy access) so they didn't forget that when he wanted to be one of them.

If a coach has been around long enough, you can dig up enough to say something good about him, or bad about him. Depends on the narrative that will generate the most interest from readers and sponsors and advertisers.

Thibs will probably be the Knicks coach for 3 years. He'll probably get fired like all the others. EVERYONE gets fired. That's just how it works. Coach K can do what he wants, everyone else has to look over their shoulder.

If Knox and Barrett broke out like a Greek Freak and said, we love Fizdale, then Fizdale would have had this job for the next ten years. It's who you draft and what talent you get. If Malone and Stockton said, we can't play for Sloan, it's too much, Sloan would have been gone.

People complain about coaching retreads without looking at why there aren't more young guns seeking NBA jobs. A lot of those best and brightest at lower levels are going into baseball or the NFL. Why put up with the bull****? Look at Kenny Atkinson, he really did good work in a very complex situation. Then the team got some aging stars and he got tossed to the side of the road. People see that and say why bother. Stay in the college game or find a job in another sport in a front office.

What Thibs needs is a draftee who will break out big and decides he loves Thibs. What the Knicks need is a breakout draftee who becomes a top 10 player very fast and decides he loves a fundamentally sound head coach.

Nalod
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7/18/2020  5:40 PM
Good fluff piece and it did address the narrative of him driving players into the ground. So bad that his top guys all wanted to follow him to Minny? Do players love to respect attention to detail and then win with it? I have ****ing repeated myself that Glen Taylor is a piece of work and not my words, but Bondy tells of Thibs keeping him out of HIS locker room. Thibs had issue with his owner. Thibs is a control freak because he works endlessly on details. What do learn hear, a guy like KObe takes to him but Wiggins and KAT wanted to have “Fun”? Fuck that.
You want to. Build a culture? You start with a control freak that demands the moment you step on the court your on HIS TIME and he put the work in. REmember what a dick Larry was? Or do you remember the winning he achieved elsewhere? Successful coaches out work the others. When they succeed they get arrogant about it. Thibs has not earned his full juice card which is why some fans are about his stereotype of why he left Minny. Is that it? Stupid loser owner who history meddles and undermines the culture? Butler wanted in to Minny and then over time realizes Taylor won’t let the culture develop. Thibs wanted butler to lead those young men but they wanted to have fun.
The great coaches have methodical discipline to everything. Thibs has shown enough success to understand its the franchise job to get the players who are serious about their work. Some players thrive in a disciplined envioronment. some don’t. Remember Larry and Iverson? They clashed because Allan wanted to do his thing. Look at the respect He now has for his former coach, he understood it with maturity. RJ seems like the kind of young man that would thrive with Thibs and his belechek like linear approach. Keep Melo and Lavar Ball out of here. draft a kid who has the personality to take on the challenge of greatness and do the work. Does Mitch have the stones to be taught? Popovitch was this kind of dickhead type of coach. Not easy and you do it his way!!
“Oh but Pop had Timmy and thats why he could do that”......True, but Timmy did not fight Pop did he? He thrived! In fact Timmy was a free agent and went back to SAS not because of the money, it was about winning and the culture.
All I have read about Thibs is this management best understand what they re getting into if they are taking this on. Thibs works has ass off and will be the hardest worker in the building. YOu either feed that beast or don’ bring him in. If players mental state is to fragile to take on the challenge then don’t bring them in. They all talk the talk, but few have the fortitude that actually loves to work. Kobe had it. Shaq didn’t. The weak ass 50 player survey that showed 34% would not be down for Thibs is interesting. What as the contract status of those players? Was any of them KAT or Wiggins? Any of them super talented kids with “fun” Personality or Jimmy Butler type hard types?
More I read about Thibs over the years the more I like him. I too as skeptical about his Chicago departure and subsequent issue in Minny. Sometimes its about fit. Taylor thought he wanted what Thibs bought to the team. He really did not. Paxton and Forman could not control him. Seems like in Chicago the players loved him. In Minny the young core of KAT and WIggins did not.
PhilinLA
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7/18/2020  9:23 PM
If the choice is Thibs, CAA is still running the team and hasn't helped at all since they started.
http://amonthhoffundays.blogspot.com/ We got a ringer.
Jimbo5
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7/18/2020  10:18 PM
Nothing has been announced but its coming soon. Who ever is chosen I would reserve any judgement after atleast a full season. If Thibs is chosen I have a feeling it could work out, he is familiar with the Knicks pressure having spent time as an assistant here. Maybe for the first time as a head coach we know that the front office is truly on his side. Thibs is a "playoff coach" no doubt about it but everyone knows from the fans to the front office to thibs that the knicks are 1-2 years away from being a serious playoff team. Any coaches 1st year will be dedicated to building his foundation, teaching the basic principles of his coaching philosophy. Expect the media to stir things up if the knicks struggle early on next year, i think thibs first year will be geared towards developing players.

The knicks just need to catch its first break and it starts with getting the right coach who can show everyone that the team can improve dramatically, not necessarily getting to the playoffs but once people see a promising improvement the young superstars will start showing interest in the team. The knicks can still offer something unique for young superstars, a chance to elevate themselves from the rest and be a part of a knicks team that is relevant. Imagine if a young superstar takes a chance on the knicks and sign here then he helps lead the team to a championship, that will elevate his brand a hundred fold.

This offseason we need to nail the coaching vacancy, draft a 3rd foundational piece, and show development from our youth. Easier said than done. Hopefully lady lucky is there throughout the process coz we all know the knicks need it.

fishmike
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7/19/2020  1:07 PM
Paging wargames... does this count?

100% why I would be behind a Thibs hiring. He’s good. Let’s get talent first. He’s a talented coach. Nobody is perfect until they win a chip

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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7/19/2020  1:54 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/19/2020  1:55 PM
thibs calling card as a coach was his defense. he was the celtics defensive coordinator and had the bulls drtg in the top 10 for his years there.

the league then changed and offenses became space and pace and 3 point heavy.

in his years with the wolves, they ranked bottom 5 in drtg.

seems that thibs was unable to put together a defense to handle the new nba offense.

on the flip side, with wolves, he had them in the top 10 for ortg. a complete opposite of his tenure with the bulls.

right now, what he did with the bulls is irrelevant b/c the league no longer plays that way.

nyvector16
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7/19/2020  1:59 PM
I would rather get Atkinson or someone from College.

I do not want Woodson, unless Danton’s is his offensive coach.. then he is great...

nyvector16
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7/19/2020  2:02 PM
djsunyc wrote:thibs calling card as a coach was his defense. he was the celtics defensive coordinator and had the bulls drtg in the top 10 for his years there.

the league then changed and offenses became space and pace and 3 point heavy.

in his years with the wolves, they ranked bottom 5 in drtg.

seems that thibs was unable to put together a defense to handle the new nba offense.

on the flip side, with wolves, he had them in the top 10 for ortg. a complete opposite of his tenure with the bulls.

right now, what he did with the bulls is irrelevant b/c the league no longer plays that way.

This is a terrific Analysis.
I cannot disagree with any of your points.
We cannot get this wrong.. we should probably pass on Thibs...

smackeddog
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7/19/2020  2:48 PM
You could have thrown the same doubts at Vogel before this season, especially after his Orlando stint (comparable to Thibs Twolves stint but worse)- he’s done just great with LA
Nalod
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7/19/2020  3:00 PM
And the league will keep moving in different places.
Its not like we are bringing him to coach the same guys!
Are there not coaches employed even today that are adapting and ever having to?
Do we not think any of what we discuss has been bought up by him? This guy is going to all the MIT analytical stuff, works his ass off. This week someone mentioned Byron Scott as a potential. His rep is as one lazy coach even though his teams did quite well! Known to not watch tape.
Thibs is on it and seems like he embraces the changes. He might tell you why his teams faltered better than any media article and if he is a nutty as they say breaks his own shyt down!
If you believe the CAA connections is the ties that bind strongest then I suppose he is being given a job he does not deserve.
He has a rep to out work about everyone. Granted thats no assurance of success but we see plenty of guys riding on talent without the effort and fall short. Thibs for all the metrics wins more than not.
We’ll know soon enough but If the team did interview 11 candidates, and second rounds with 3-4 I would hope they did more than a friendly hire based on just friendship.
At the end of the day we have no idea what trades, FA’s and how our draft will work out. We just assume our roster is as it is with adding two picks. How daring will we be? Time will tell!
Uptown
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7/19/2020  3:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/19/2020  3:12 PM
smackeddog wrote:You could have thrown the same doubts at Vogel before this season, especially after his Orlando stint (comparable to Thibs Twolves stint but worse)- he’s done just great with LA

Not saying Vogel hasn't done well, but he's coaching Lebron and AD! Fiz would be a candidate for coach of the yr if was sitting on the Lakers bench

fishmike
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7/19/2020  5:47 PM
nyvector16 wrote:
djsunyc wrote:thibs calling card as a coach was his defense. he was the celtics defensive coordinator and had the bulls drtg in the top 10 for his years there.

the league then changed and offenses became space and pace and 3 point heavy.

in his years with the wolves, they ranked bottom 5 in drtg.

seems that thibs was unable to put together a defense to handle the new nba offense.

on the flip side, with wolves, he had them in the top 10 for ortg. a complete opposite of his tenure with the bulls.

right now, what he did with the bulls is irrelevant b/c the league no longer plays that way.

This is a terrific Analysis.
I cannot disagree with any of your points.
We cannot get this wrong.. we should probably pass on Thibs...

im sorry but it’s not. What he did with the Bulls was good coaching and that is never irrelevant. He has good defensive players built that team accordingly. In Minn he didn’t have good defenders, he had Wiggins and KAT and the their offense their strength and you can thank Thibs for their lone playoff appearance over a 16 year stretch

Good coaching is not irrelevant

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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7/19/2020  6:12 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/19/2020  6:14 PM
fishmike wrote:
nyvector16 wrote:
djsunyc wrote:thibs calling card as a coach was his defense. he was the celtics defensive coordinator and had the bulls drtg in the top 10 for his years there.

the league then changed and offenses became space and pace and 3 point heavy.

in his years with the wolves, they ranked bottom 5 in drtg.

seems that thibs was unable to put together a defense to handle the new nba offense.

on the flip side, with wolves, he had them in the top 10 for ortg. a complete opposite of his tenure with the bulls.

right now, what he did with the bulls is irrelevant b/c the league no longer plays that way.

This is a terrific Analysis.
I cannot disagree with any of your points.
We cannot get this wrong.. we should probably pass on Thibs...

im sorry but it’s not. What he did with the Bulls was good coaching and that is never irrelevant. He has good defensive players built that team accordingly. In Minn he didn’t have good defenders, he had Wiggins and KAT and the their offense their strength and you can thank Thibs for their lone playoff appearance over a 16 year stretch

Good coaching is not irrelevant

there's a reason no other teams are really after him - only his former agent. players talk. he's not getting calls b/c of it. butler helped minny make the playoffs that one year. i'm not saying he's a bad coach but the league has changed dramatically and he hasn't shown to be the defensive coach he was prior. having a bottom 5 drtg lays alot at the players feet but it's also apparent that his defensive coaching acumen was overrated. they were ranked 25th in 17/18 with teague, butler and taj gibson starting. if the wolves were middle of the pack drtg then you would be talking about what a great coaching job he did but b/c they were awful, you are absolving him of any of the responsibility. that's why you can't assume anything when you hire him - especially a franchise like the knicks where nothing goes right.

djsunyc
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7/19/2020  6:18 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/19/2020  6:20 PM
Nalod wrote:And the league will keep moving in different places.
Its not like we are bringing him to coach the same guys!
Are there not coaches employed even today that are adapting and ever having to?

mike d'antoni failed with the knicks and lakers but found success in houston.

yes, coaches can adapt and change. he is like a guy who did great with buying amazon stock in 2010 and holding onto it and the only other stock he's bought since has lost money and then you hire him to manage your money. no telling what he's going to do.

TripleThreat
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7/19/2020  7:15 PM
djsunyc wrote: i'm not saying he's a bad coach but the league has changed dramatically and he hasn't shown to be the defensive coach he was prior. having a bottom 5 drtg lays alot at the players feet but it's also apparent that his defensive coaching acumen was overrated. they were ranked 25th in 17/18 with teague, butler and taj gibson starting. if the wolves were middle of the pack drtg then you would be talking about what a great coaching job he did but b/c they were awful, you are absolving him of any of the responsibility.


You are absolving Karl Anthony Towns of responsibility. Convenient that you don't mention him. No one is going to have even a league average defense with KAT patrolling the paint. KAT is bad mix of don't understand/don't give a ****/plays too soft on defense, his offense is great though and that's all he clearly cares about. And I'm not a huge Wiggins fan, but the team doubled down and got KAT's buddy, Russell, and that dude is also pretty horrible when it's not time to play offense.

Team defense, you need everyone to buy in and commit and put in the relentless effort to win.

Thibs has many flaws, but I'm just not apt to hang him here because his franchise guy doesn't give a ****. Compiling counting stats on offense does not count as actually giving a ****. You have to forego your own counting stats and think about quarterbacking the defense from the pivot. Protecting the rim and blocking shots are two different things, KAT doesn't know the difference. The troubling thing is not just KAT is not where he's supposed to be on defense, but that he doesn't know why he needs to be there in the first place.

awe1028
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7/20/2020  7:16 AM
https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/tom-thibodeau-knicks-head-coach-defense

This article is an objective look at whether Thibs' struggles to adapt to the new NBA. The article acknowledges what many are concerned with regarding Thibs - that he indeed had trouble with the new NBA. However the last few paragraphs is optimistic about his ability to adjust.

For the record I am all in on Thibs. I believe his troubles in Minnesota had more to do with KAT and Wiggins than any issue with his scheme. The Knicks don't have a lot of talent but if there is one area where they have significant potential it is on the Defensive end (Frank, Mitch, RJ). Thibs with his commitment to defense is exactly what the knicks need.

Interesting article on Thibs

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