This team seems to be throwing games. Just jaw-dropping bad basketball.

franco12 wrote:we're one player away from being solid. A 8 seed.

I don't see the wisdom in burning this down.

Give me Fred VanFleet next year, our draft pick, continued growth. Resign morris. Swap out some of the other FA (ellington! Portis, Gibson) and we're right there.

Are we a championship team? No. Not close.

But after so many years of awful play, meaningless teams that aren't going anywhere, we finally have the start of a solid team.

And you want to hit delete, rather than revise, swap up, and upgrade.

franco12 wrote:we're one player away from being solid. A 8 seed.

I don't see the wisdom in burning this down.

Give me Fred VanFleet next year, our draft pick, continued growth. Resign morris. Swap out some of the other FA (ellington! Portis, Gibson) and we're right there.

Are we a championship team? No. Not close.

But after so many years of awful play, meaningless teams that aren't going anywhere, we finally have the start of a solid team.

And you want to hit delete, rather than revise, swap up, and upgrade.

One player away from being solid?

C'mon man...c'mon.

Fred VanVleet, who is a role player, and a draft pick are not going to elevate a terrible roster. This is the type of thinking that maddens me. You yourself claim you've been watching awful basketball for years. So have I. What gives you any indication that we are "one player away" from being decent with this roster? No offense, it's a ridiculous hyperbolic statement.

This roster is absolutely awful and the front office has no idea how to build a roster that compliments each other and players who have a remotely decent basketball IQ. It's been 3 seasons and the front office has shown that they are consistently targeting the wrong TYPE of players. If you really think something will change next offseason or next with the same front office that's given you Mudiay, Hezonja, Randle, Portis, Ellington, Hardaway Jr, etc, then I am happy that you are giving yourself a fruitful outlook on a franchise that is once again heading absolutely nowhere.

Jmpasq wrote:

franco12 wrote:we're one player away from being solid. A 8 seed.

I don't see the wisdom in burning this down.

Give me Fred VanFleet next year, our draft pick, continued growth. Resign morris. Swap out some of the other FA (ellington! Portis, Gibson) and we're right there.

Are we a championship team? No. Not close.

But after so many years of awful play, meaningless teams that aren't going anywhere, we finally have the start of a solid team.

And you want to hit delete, rather than revise, swap up, and upgrade.

We do not. I'm sorry but even the most optimistic fan knows this whole team sucks. Mitch and Barrett are the only 2 starters and neither will be top tier players. As far as I'm concerned we haven't got a single building block. The draft picks from the KP trade are worthless and we have straight bums making the decisions. I see no end i sight

Barrett could very well be a top tier talent. Dude is so young and talented. He should be a college freshman. I think he has that work ethic, leadership, winning mentality etc that will allow him a chance to become a top tier player.

smackeddog wrote:The worst thing is as bad as we've been, just 2 more wins and we'd end up with only the 7th best lottery odds. 4 more and we're 9th. We could still realistically end the season trying to win games/save jobs, and end up at 9th in the lottery odds! All this losing for nothing!

I do feel this. I struggle with the idea that we could end up with Jordan Hill instead of Stephan Curry.

I am under no illusion that we have a franchise talent. As good as RJ might become, I don't see a franchise changing talent.

So, if we're going to ascribe to the Philly model that Hinkie espoused - and I think he had a pretty strong argument backed by data- then, yes, we should never have signed Randle or Morris or anyone this summer. And we should be looking to trade Frank, DSjr, Knox, Trier and possible Robinson and RJ right now for future draft picks.

franco12 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:The worst thing is as bad as we've been, just 2 more wins and we'd end up with only the 7th best lottery odds. 4 more and we're 9th. We could still realistically end the season trying to win games/save jobs, and end up at 9th in the lottery odds! All this losing for nothing!

I do feel this. I struggle with the idea that we could end up with Jordan Hill instead of Stephan Curry.

I am under no illusion that we have a franchise talent. As good as RJ might become, I don't see a franchise changing talent.

So, if we're going to ascribe to the Philly model that Hinkie espoused - and I think he had a pretty strong argument backed by data- then, yes, we should never have signed Randle or Morris or anyone this summer. And we should be looking to trade Frank, DSjr, Knox, Trier and possible Robinson and RJ right now for future draft picks.

Trading our young prospects for future picks is just rinse and repeat. How about we develop these guys instead of trading them to draft more guys just like them? At the end of the day very few prospect come to the league NBA ready, you have to develop them. We have a core of RJ and Mitch. Both can be really good players. Maybe not superstars, but we don't know one way or another yet. We need to put them in position to be successful first. Drafting is hard enough as it is. RJ would be the #1 pick in this upcoming draft. Mitch would definitely be top 10 and possibly even top 5 given how weak it is at the top.

SupremeCommander wrote:Why can't the Knicks develop any player ever? Mitch was exciting last year but hasn't expanded his game at all. He's the same player. Ditto for Knox. The only stuff Frank learned was with Team France. Trier? Like what the literal ****. I am scared for RJ.

This is my biggest concern. It seems we do a decent job finding talent in the draft, but never develop it. Although i would say while Mitch hasn't expanded his game, he has improved. His numbers are better this year than last. Knox has regressed, and i feel like that's more the situation he is in. Frank is the exact same player he was as a rookie statistically. I think we have a solid core group starting with RJ and Mitch, but i'm really concerned with the poor development we have in place. And our front office seems more concerned with getting a few extra wins and the development of the young guys has sort of gone by the waist side.

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:The worst thing is as bad as we've been, just 2 more wins and we'd end up with only the 7th best lottery odds. 4 more and we're 9th. We could still realistically end the season trying to win games/save jobs, and end up at 9th in the lottery odds! All this losing for nothing!

I do feel this. I struggle with the idea that we could end up with Jordan Hill instead of Stephan Curry.

I am under no illusion that we have a franchise talent. As good as RJ might become, I don't see a franchise changing talent.

So, if we're going to ascribe to the Philly model that Hinkie espoused - and I think he had a pretty strong argument backed by data- then, yes, we should never have signed Randle or Morris or anyone this summer. And we should be looking to trade Frank, DSjr, Knox, Trier and possible Robinson and RJ right now for future draft picks.

Trading our young prospects for future picks is just rinse and repeat. How about we develop these guys instead of trading them to draft more guys just like them? At the end of the day very few prospect come to the league NBA ready, you have to develop them. We have a core of RJ and Mitch. Both can be really good players. Maybe not superstars, but we don't know one way or another yet. We need to put them in position to be successful first. Drafting is hard enough as it is. RJ would be the #1 pick in this upcoming draft. Mitch would definitely be top 10 and possibly even top 5 given how weak it is at the top.

I agree with you. I'm not ready to trade any of our young prospects. In my mind, we need to find players 1-10 on a championship team. Dotson, Trier, Knox, Robinson, RJ are all candidates for those roles.

But, here is where I would agree with trading them for future picks - how do we land a franchise talent - a Lebron, a Zion - a player who is the best talent on the court always when they step onto it.

arkrud wrote:Team is exactly where it should be 1 season removed from complete blowout.
KP trade was the end of old Knicks
We had nothing but future picks.
Now think about it. How long it takes to build new team in NBA?
We were worth than expansion team and still are.
Yep we can bring new FO and start over again.
It will not make this team win for many years anyways.
So what the point?

Good fantasy. The KP trade is exactly the same old Knicks. I’m on multiple Knicks forums and this seems to be the only one where there are good portion of people who are happy with terrible moves this club has done.

The point of a new front office is to try and build a winner. This front office is not capable of building a winning team. I’m not sure what you see when you watch this front office and think to yourself that these guys have the right idea. You keep talking about wins and losses. I’m talking to you about the TYPE OF PLAYERS THEY ARE GOING AFTER. Look at those players carefully. The all share similar characteristics. Most of them aren’t good characteristics. The front offices’ idea of good talent and complimentary players on a team is completely wrong.

You are going to waste away years giving these people a chance when it’s clear they have no idea what they’re doing because you are afraid someone else may do it worse? Really? What kind of thinking is this? Should no employee ever get fired again in any job because there could be someone ‘worse’ that replaces them? This idea makes no sense to me. Mills is one of the worst to ever do it anyway.