TheGame wrote:I was thinking about the fact that it looks like DSJ might not be a starting caliber PG. If that proves to be the case, then we traded KP for two first round picks and whatever we can get for DSJ, which certainly would be less than what you would expect to get for KP. But then I realized, we would not have gotten Randle if KP was here. If you look at KP's stats and Randle's stats, they are fairly comparable. KP is averaging PTS 17.3 REB 9.4 AST 1.5 PER 16.71 and Julius Randle is averaging PTS 18.7 REB 8.8 AST 3.3 PER 17.26. So through this trade, the Knicks replaced KP with a similar player (who actually wants to be here) and who gets paid an average of $20 million per year over the next three years as opposed to KP's average of $29 million, and the Knicks get two additional first round picks. Plus, we still have cap-flexibility. It actually was a genius move when you look at it like this.

The question becomes, how do they compare in terms of impact ? Randle puts up bigger numbers but obviously KP is far superior defensively.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TheGame wrote:I was thinking about the fact that it looks like DSJ might not be a starting caliber PG. If that proves to be the case, then we traded KP for two first round picks and whatever we can get for DSJ, which certainly would be less than what you would expect to get for KP. But then I realized, we would not have gotten Randle if KP was here. If you look at KP's stats and Randle's stats, they are fairly comparable. KP is averaging PTS 17.3 REB 9.4 AST 1.5 PER 16.71 and Julius Randle is averaging PTS 18.7 REB 8.8 AST 3.3 PER 17.26. So through this trade, the Knicks replaced KP with a similar player (who actually wants to be here) and who gets paid an average of $20 million per year over the next three years as opposed to KP's average of $29 million, and the Knicks get two additional first round picks. Plus, we still have cap-flexibility. It actually was a genius move when you look at it like this.

The question becomes, how do they compare in terms of impact ? Randle puts up bigger numbers but obviously KP is far superior defensively.

Yeah, but Randle is at least decent at the one thing KP is weakest at, which is staying with his man in the perimeter. Won't deny KP is better, but they both have their weaknesses. If the question is would you rather have Randle on a $20 million a year, short-term deal or KP on a max, then you could make an argument for Randle. KP is talented, but it's not clear he can carry a team for an entire season and he's injury prone. I'd still take KP, but can't deny Randle is a safer bet, assuming he's turned the corner this season.

I think Randle needs to become a league average 3pt shooter for him to excel here. RJ and Mitch are here to stay. If Randle can develop to knock down 2 per game at 35% then we are moving in the right direction. He needs to get his 20 ppg around the basket and from 3.

KP showed signs of being a franchise talent - for about 1 month of the season, then he flagged badly and ended the year hurt.

I've only caught part of some Dallas games, and not seeing anything in his stats that say franchise impact talent - he is a 7'6" shooting guard.

He's certainly in a better place with Dallas - I hope we can find our way to build a team as good or better.

And oh yeah KP is a douchebag with a douchebag brother. I almost forgot.

And Mitch next to KP would have given the team one of the best defensive front courts in the league. We could have used the cap space to sign Butler or Russell and still have expiring contracts this season in Lee and Hardaway to make a move.

It was not the best deal available, these idiots rushed, like they have rushed to do everything. Two picks in the high 20s and Smith whose as mentally tough as Dion Waters.

Iggy likely will get an additional first round picks in a second trade.

Randle has strung a couple of good games together, but let’s get a signature win before we pretend this trade made any sense.

Do you trust anything that comes out of the mouths of our front office. The guys that couldn’t get a meeting with the two guys they knew were coming.

Multiple teams have come out and mentioned they didn’t get a chance to make an offer.

More importantly the Mavs had a deal on the table to flip Matthews for Hardaway. So in order to open up space all you had to do for the second max slot was move Lee which could have been done with Frank or a future 1st. We didn’t need to use cap space on Bobby Portis, Wayne Ellington, and Taj Gibson the first 12 hours of free agency.

These guys didn’t have a plan. You sit down with the kid like Riley did with Ewing. Someone can’t be upset with the direction of the team?

This franchise has been garbage for 20 years. I don’t understand why everyone defends the Knicks, it’s fine to love them we all do, just not to give them the benefit of the doubt. If the GM trashes Melo publicly and then tries to put you in the middle of things as a second year player perhaps you blow off that meeting. That seems to always be a big point of contention.

Again, if you have to move him and you do it without contracts you get more. We just can’t keep losing every trade year after year.

MS wrote:-snip-

Multiple teams have come out and mentioned they didn’t get a chance to make an offer.

-snip-

Oh, I think the FO knew what the offers were and there are probably teams that the Knicks didn't want KP going to.

I don't understand why you are psychologically hung up on this point. The FO made a decision they were happy with. Should they have procrastinated forever awaiting the best deal ever?

MS wrote:
-snip-

Again, if you have to move him and you do it without contracts you get more. We just can’t keep losing every trade year after year.

We don't lose every trade year after year. We simply don't. For many years the players the Knicks have had to trade were not that valuable. We were ecstatic to lose many of these contracts and we cared very little about the return which NEVER was going to be substantial.

Again, I don't get the doom and gloom. We, like so many other teams, fell into the NBA's perpetual mediocrity loop. Never good enough to win, never bad enough nor having the luck of the draw to get good.

The blame game has run its course. We've hired and fired great coaches and hire the cream of the crop of FO types.

Phil turned the corner and Mills/Perry have leveraged that initiative. We're on the right path and making progress.

And you're crying on the sideline about Darko and his brother Zero. Listen to what KP told you, "Get Woke and stay woke" [the best is yet to come].

I don't think the trade was awful. It was just a suboptimal reset. The whole FA market got messed up when Durant got hurt.

At the same time, I bet a lot of us fans were kind of worried whether 1) KP would return to pre-injury form and 2) would evolve into a legit max player. He's still young, but he's still a bit fragile... and he still can't shoot for a high % nor pass for assists.

Had the Knicks not traded KP, they would have easily had the cap space for Randle (or someone else] and THEN could have signed KP to his max contract later. In fact, that was the original plan. It was to add a max player to KP. Not only would that have been superior, but Randle is actually a much better fit with KP. KP and Robinson are also a better fit than Mitch and Randle because KP stretches the floor way better for either Randle or Mitch to operate inside. It was a terrible trade.