My point is each of Morey, Presti, and even Ujiri had ups and downs. Their owner stuck with them. Even Hinkie and Grunfeld! Why? The owner sets the course! Grunfeld told Wiz owner a pure youth movement would not work. Ted told him to stick to it. It did not work and you keep your job. By last year Grunfeld had been there 10 plus year and it was time so I get it. Hinkie was hired to do some deep math shyt by his hedge fund owners.
Meanwhile in the north if Kawhi misses his miracle game winner in game 7 after he had basically fired his COY, traded Derozen, and would have had the same result as year before. Kawhi walks and he has cap space. He also traded Valachinas for an older and likely in decline Gasol. That **** don't get you fired, but you get called out. Instead, god punishes greedy hedgefund owners and the ball bounces, GSW the heavy favorite to disseminate THE NORTH instead sees two likely HOF in their primes get broken. Like some Pat Robertson rant about god punishing them for having a gay team president and instead loves Canada. Ujiri? I would have hired him out of Denver if we could, but now you going to give up a first round pick because Kawhi hit the shot and Ujiri the "it" guy?
For all the greatness that is SAS its really build on Timmy Duncan. Timmy was the right guy for the right culture and they kept it together. One has to look at when Duncan was a free agent and instead of taking the money in Orlando where he could nearly puddle jump to his Virgin Island home he stayed. One coach, one GM all built one two platforms. The first being David Robinson as its star player and laying that foundation and actually Larry Freaking Brown who was there and hired Pop as an assistant! Brown does what he does but planted the seeds that owner Holt and Family nourished.
Lakers. Bad franchise now for while. Magic was their starphuch Phil. All show and no substance. They did build thru the draft and collect assets. They had a plan to sign Lebron then burn those assets to pair him with Davis. They cleaned up their ownership issue and hired a shrewd prick named Pelinka. Looks good over there.

My point is a lot of things have to happen for these GM/presidents to succeed. The core foundation is the ownership. They are the stewards, they are the alpha, they are the leadership when things go wrong. Panicking is never a good way to make decisions. For what ever was done in the past or to lay blame there is a reality of this roster, what is an asset or not, and what is the process. Its possible Mills plan was bring in a healthy Durant and Irving and then use either KP or what we got plus our pick to get AD and make a trifecta starphuch. Durant brakes, Kyrie is a mental case and KP was traded. Shyt happens. 22 games into this season its going all wrong. 22 games. Im ok with Fiz fired and I really don't care about Mills. Its what comes next. After all this pain I can endure with a genuine effort going forward. I fear a new version of McDyess/Amare/Melo type starphuch. Good talent but over pay. We get a jolt of feel good and then float in mediocrity to keep the heat off Jimmy.

1. Reality is Knicks are not Dolans to sell. Its attached to a corp structure. Be it as it may he needs to name a trustee. Perhaps a board member with the acumen and public saavy to see this thru. A successful person in their own right who can exude confidence to the public and leadership to a FO. AKA: not Panic when things go wrong. Im being a bit starphuched here. The current board has no such person that jumps out. Most are either Dolans or private equity directors. http://investor.msg.com/corporate-governance/board-of-directors The Current board should be a bit disgusted with the knicks but fact is financially they might be doing fine. Problem is they are not performing and no doubt winning would be more profitable!!!!

2. Mills is accountable to this person. No doubt we are sitting here in a bad spot but there are things we are just not privy to. Since I don't trust the process of Dolan who hired him, then hired Phil, then fired phil, hired all before them.........how can I trust that Dolan firing mills is a good thing? I can't. In fact if Knicks1248 and Dolan are keen to firing Mills I'm inclined to think we should keep him!! LOL!! So who picks the next team President??? See the quagmire? Rainman or Dolan?

3. Perry is not the problem. Might not be the solution. Im ok here what ever.

The issue with the knicks is Dolan is not accountable beyond his friendly board. Since he did not build his fortune and earn his right to run the team, then its an issue of being competent. Donald Sterling as much of a piece of Shyt, still had made his own way and at least earned the right to be a piece of Shyt owner! Sterling had bad intentions. I think Dolan has good intentions. He is loyal to a fault, and I can't imagine anything but wants to win. He created a mess over 20 years. Its Simply time for him to step aside. He has no presence or cred to attract talent. Just gobs of money. I don't care if he retains his financial interests. I want someone with presence and experiences of success to drive this going forward. If that person is ok with Mills, Im good with Mills. In fact, I'd just as soon have mills in that role and hire his replacement than Dolan!! Dolan has shown to be really bad at this. Think about this. ALL OF THE MAJOR PERSONEL CHANGES AND SIGNINGS ARE ON HIM! THINK OF ALL THE BLAMING AND FINGERPOINTING FANS HAVE DONE OVER THE YEARS! HE HIRES THEM. HE FIRES THEM. HE SIGNS THE CHECKS. You blame Donnie for Amare? Seriously? All the guys fans blame, they are all gone and still here we are. Now you want Dolan to replace Mills and you guys are "excited"?? Why?

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

The Knicks had a plan. It just didn't work out. How could the knicks keep on failing to draft players who can't shoot is crazy. We drafted a player who can't hit free throws. Maybe it's the New York experience. Hey the Nets aren't doing that great either. I Really don't think Dolan selling the team will solve anything.

Barrett isn’t a broken shooter. He’s correcting his free throw shooting and will be fine. He’s a playmaking wing. Knox can shoot and will improve. The reality is they need to support Barrett and Mitch by surrounding them with 3 shooters in the lineup.

Nalod wrote:The fix:

1. Reality is Knicks are not Dolans to sell. Its attached to a corp structure. Be it as it may he needs to name a trustee. Perhaps a board member with the acumen and public saavy to see this thru. A successful person in their own right who can exude confidence to the public and leadership to a FO. AKA: not Panic when things go wrong. Im being a bit starphuched here. The current board has no such person that jumps out. Most are either Dolans or private equity directors. http://investor.msg.com/corporate-governance/board-of-directors The Current board should be a bit disgusted with the knicks but fact is financially they might be doing fine. Problem is they are not performing and no doubt winning would be more profitable!!!!

2. Mills is accountable to this person. No doubt we are sitting here in a bad spot but there are things we are just not privy to. Since I don't trust the process of Dolan who hired him, then hired Phil, then fired phil, hired all before them.........how can I trust that Dolan firing mills is a good thing? I can't. In fact if Knicks1248 and Dolan are keen to firing Mills I'm inclined to think we should keep him!! LOL!! So who picks the next team President??? See the quagmire? Rainman or Dolan?

3. Perry is not the problem. Might not be the solution. Im ok here what ever.

The issue with the knicks is Dolan is not accountable beyond his friendly board. Since he did not build his fortune and earn his right to run the team, then its an issue of being competent. Donald Sterling as much of a piece of Shyt, still had made his own way and at least earned the right to be a piece of Shyt owner! Sterling had bad intentions. I think Dolan has good intentions. He is loyal to a fault, and I can't imagine anything but wants to win. He created a mess over 20 years. Its Simply time for him to step aside. He has no presence or cred to attract talent. Just gobs of money. I don't care if he retains his financial interests. I want someone with presence and experiences of success to drive this going forward. If that person is ok with Mills, Im good with Mills. In fact, I'd just as soon have mills in that role and hire his replacement than Dolan!! Dolan has shown to be really bad at this. Think about this. ALL OF THE MAJOR PERSONEL CHANGES AND SIGNINGS ARE ON HIM! THINK OF ALL THE BLAMING AND FINGERPOINTING FANS HAVE DONE OVER THE YEARS! HE HIRES THEM. HE FIRES THEM. HE SIGNS THE CHECKS. You blame Donnie for Amare? Seriously? All the guys fans blame, they are all gone and still here we are. Now you want Dolan to replace Mills and you guys are "excited"?? Why?

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

The Knicks had a plan. It just didn't work out. How could the knicks keep on failing to draft players who can't shoot is crazy. We drafted a player who can't hit free throws. Maybe it's the New York experience. Hey the Nets aren't doing that great either. I Really don't think Dolan selling the team will solve anything.

Barrett isn’t a broken shooter. He’s correcting his free throw shooting and will be fine. He’s a playmaking wing. Knox can shoot and will improve. The reality is they need to support Barrett and Mitch by surrounding them with 3 shooters in the lineup.

Realistically Knox has not shown us he can consistently shoot. His 3pt % is a smidge above last year and everything else is the same or worse and everything is below average.

The way I see it Knox shot the ball very well until his minutes declined for defensive concerns. Being a consistent shooter when the minutes are sporadic is tough. Just ask Wayne Ellington. If Knox is playing 25+ mpg in a consistent role he probably shoots 3s in the high 30s.

Or Knox was hot for a month and then showed his true shooting form

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

The Knicks had a plan. It just didn't work out. How could the knicks keep on failing to draft players who can't shoot is crazy. We drafted a player who can't hit free throws. Maybe it's the New York experience. Hey the Nets aren't doing that great either. I Really don't think Dolan selling the team will solve anything.

Barrett isn’t a broken shooter. He’s correcting his free throw shooting and will be fine. He’s a playmaking wing. Knox can shoot and will improve. The reality is they need to support Barrett and Mitch by surrounding them with 3 shooters in the lineup.

Realistically Knox has not shown us he can consistently shoot. His 3pt % is a smidge above last year and everything else is the same or worse and everything is below average.

The way I see it Knox shot the ball very well until his minutes declined for defensive concerns. Being a consistent shooter when the minutes are sporadic is tough. Just ask Wayne Ellington. If Knox is playing 25+ mpg in a consistent role he probably shoots 3s in the high 30s.

Or Knox was hot for a month and then showed his true shooting form

I guess only time will tell. I’ve given him the benefit of the doubt because his form is very good, but we will have to see.

Nalod wrote: Could have given it to Riley.

This I grew up on the 90s Knicks would have had all the chips and success the Heat had , had they just gave Pat the keys to the castle.Biggest mistake in the history of the franchise and we are still paying for it today.

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:The fix:

1. Reality is Knicks are not Dolans to sell. Its attached to a corp structure. Be it as it may he needs to name a trustee. Perhaps a board member with the acumen and public saavy to see this thru. A successful person in their own right who can exude confidence to the public and leadership to a FO. AKA: not Panic when things go wrong. Im being a bit starphuched here. The current board has no such person that jumps out. Most are either Dolans or private equity directors. http://investor.msg.com/corporate-governance/board-of-directors The Current board should be a bit disgusted with the knicks but fact is financially they might be doing fine. Problem is they are not performing and no doubt winning would be more profitable!!!!

2. Mills is accountable to this person. No doubt we are sitting here in a bad spot but there are things we are just not privy to. Since I don't trust the process of Dolan who hired him, then hired Phil, then fired phil, hired all before them.........how can I trust that Dolan firing mills is a good thing? I can't. In fact if Knicks1248 and Dolan are keen to firing Mills I'm inclined to think we should keep him!! LOL!! So who picks the next team President??? See the quagmire? Rainman or Dolan?

3. Perry is not the problem. Might not be the solution. Im ok here what ever.

The issue with the knicks is Dolan is not accountable beyond his friendly board. Since he did not build his fortune and earn his right to run the team, then its an issue of being competent. Donald Sterling as much of a piece of Shyt, still had made his own way and at least earned the right to be a piece of Shyt owner! Sterling had bad intentions. I think Dolan has good intentions. He is loyal to a fault, and I can't imagine anything but wants to win. He created a mess over 20 years. Its Simply time for him to step aside. He has no presence or cred to attract talent. Just gobs of money. I don't care if he retains his financial interests. I want someone with presence and experiences of success to drive this going forward. If that person is ok with Mills, Im good with Mills. In fact, I'd just as soon have mills in that role and hire his replacement than Dolan!! Dolan has shown to be really bad at this. Think about this. ALL OF THE MAJOR PERSONEL CHANGES AND SIGNINGS ARE ON HIM! THINK OF ALL THE BLAMING AND FINGERPOINTING FANS HAVE DONE OVER THE YEARS! HE HIRES THEM. HE FIRES THEM. HE SIGNS THE CHECKS. You blame Donnie for Amare? Seriously? All the guys fans blame, they are all gone and still here we are. Now you want Dolan to replace Mills and you guys are "excited"?? Why?

Was Grunwald fired as part of the McKinsey group getting involved? The KNicks and Grunwald seemed to be headed in the right direction and then it was blown up.

Not sure team was heading in the right direction given 5 guys retired off that team and Bargnani was bought in . Dolan hired McKinsey which was a bit out of the box thinking. Might have been a good thing for corp. side but to run a basketball team? Naw. But lets look at Grunwald. He was Isiah’s assistant. Story was Donnie wanted to groom his successor but Dolan would not let him hire anyone. Dolan being Dolan kept Grunwald because he was under contract. He fires him 4 days before camp breaks in OCT. Who does that? Birngs in Mills, then weeks later starts the courtship of Phil in broad daylight? Who does that???? Dolan!

Bargs wasn't a Grunwald move.That came out later but he didn't want to make that trade. Rumor was Bargs was a caa client and the Knicks were making moves to gain favor with caa. Woodson was forced to keep Chris Smith and was only allowed to play KMart and Amare every other game to keep them healthy. Woodson was the face of the franchise with the media but wasn't backed by Mills and players (Shump, JR) tuned out the coach and weren't held accountable. Shump could have been traded but Mills wouldnt commit.

So who made the bargnani trade? Does it really matter? During the Donnie years Isiah was in Dolans ear and Grunwald was still employed. Thats on Dolan.
Dolan got close to autonomy when Phil. Phil was not great, but now with hindsight if we left him be he might have better to have traded KP despite the unpopularity at that moment. But Dolan panicked. He panicked when hire Phil, and again when he fired him.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

The Knicks had a plan. It just didn't work out. How could the knicks keep on failing to draft players who can't shoot is crazy. We drafted a player who can't hit free throws. Maybe it's the New York experience. Hey the Nets aren't doing that great either. I Really don't think Dolan selling the team will solve anything.

Barrett isn’t a broken shooter. He’s correcting his free throw shooting and will be fine. He’s a playmaking wing. Knox can shoot and will improve. The reality is they need to support Barrett and Mitch by surrounding them with 3 shooters in the lineup.

Realistically Knox has not shown us he can consistently shoot. His 3pt % is a smidge above last year and everything else is the same or worse and everything is below average.

The way I see it Knox shot the ball very well until his minutes declined for defensive concerns. Being a consistent shooter when the minutes are sporadic is tough. Just ask Wayne Ellington. If Knox is playing 25+ mpg in a consistent role he probably shoots 3s in the high 30s.

Or Knox was hot for a month and then showed his true shooting form

The scoundrel!

If a team at that moment wants to build off that, they hire an international coach who would help develop that group. Instead Knicks dumped Willy quickly, never really got behind Frank and KP was out for a long time they knew but found a way to alienate him with multiple things (biggest probably being not offering him an extension).

It seems they just wanted to do the re-set again and again. No one realized that maybe not re-set, just add on what you have and develop what you have. Hire a Euro coach for 2-3 years and let KP, Frank and your lotto picks develop. There just was no longterm plan in place. What can you do. Its Mills.