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What is the purpose of firing Fiz?
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arkrud
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12/3/2019  9:57 AM
What this move will accomplish except of scapegoating him to media and Fans and blowing more Dolans cache?
What can improve with him out and interim in?
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
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Vmart
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12/3/2019  10:04 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/3/2019  10:04 AM
Because you don’t want to continue to have stability of losing.
knicks1248
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12/3/2019  10:14 AM
Because he has a 21-111 record, including losing his last 8 games in Memphis.

If you think that this losing is good development for our young players,you are sad and don't understand basketball. If you havent seen that theae players realize he's a dead man walking, you haven't been paying attention.

Of course the players won't publicly throw him under the bus, but he's toast and they know it.

If You as a fan have become so numb to the losing, just imagine how the players feel.

ES
arkrud
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12/3/2019  10:17 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/3/2019  10:18 AM
knicks1248 wrote:Because he has a 21-111 record, including losing his last 8 games in Memphis.

If you think that this losing is good development for our young players,you are sad and don't understand basketball. If you havent seen that theae players realize he's a dead man walking, you haven't been paying attention.

Of course the players won't publicly throw him under the bus, but he's toast and they know it.

If You as a fan have become so numb to the losing, just imagine how the players feel.

Why his firing will help create winning environment?
Why you think this group will start wining?
And what your mind will do if they will most likely continue losing?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
arkrud
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12/3/2019  10:18 AM
Vmart wrote:Because you don’t want to continue to have stability of losing.

So you wont to have losing in instability?
Is it what we have for 20 years already?
Did it help?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
arkrud
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12/3/2019  10:25 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/3/2019  10:25 AM
The problem with Knicks is not with the team.
The team is in the state it should be at this stage of rebuild.
The problem is in the mind of every fan.
Everyone need to surrender to the reality that it will take many seasons for Knicks to contend or even get to 50%.
Firing stuff and trading players to just make something look different and create false hope of quick fix may bring a couple of weeks of relieve at best.
And then it will became clear that things are same of getting worth.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Vmart
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12/3/2019  10:39 AM
arkrud wrote:
Vmart wrote:Because you don’t want to continue to have stability of losing.

So you wont to have losing in instability?
Is it what we have for 20 years already?
Did it help?

Fizdale was a gimmick hire. He was hired for no other reason than a crack pot idea that Knicks management came up with to attempt to attract free agents based on friendship. Hiring Fizdale had nothing to do with youth movement. He spent an entire year doing nothing and implementing nothing and today you are seeing his ineptness on full display.

Knicks management needs to go as well they came up with this crack pot idea just for that they should be fired for lack of intelligence. Mill went to An Ivy League school to get stupid who come with with a bird brain scheme like this. Perry another ridiculous hire. They are compounding mistakes and if action isn’t taken it will continue. Players can sniff out bullshyt coaches and Fizdale is a BS coach. Just because he learned under Riley doesn’t make him Riley. Just because he won with Wade, LeBron and Bosh as an assistant doesn’t make you a great coach.

stanleybostitch
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12/3/2019  10:46 AM
Because Fizdale is just not a good coach - he's a cheerleader with a hot wife.
The new new core: Randle, RJ, IQ. Maybe Mitch. Future pick. Future trade. Future FA.
newyorknewyork
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12/3/2019  10:58 AM
Firing him wouldn’t be based off his win loss record. Would be based off his ability to develop players. There really is no evidence of this. Firing him just to get him out because he is losing wouldn’t accomplish much if that was the reason. But using the rest of the season to evaluate if Mike Miller is capable wouldn’t be bad. Or if not Mike Miller. A coach who can actually show the results of developing and improving young players. As that is the only way for the Knicks to move forward.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
franco12
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12/3/2019  12:14 PM
You fire Fizdale because you want to find out if we're really this bad! Did those FA signings in the summer NOT add to our talent?

How exactly did we add proven NBA talent like Morris and Randle and take a step back from last year's squad?

Was Emmanual Mudiay, Lee and Tim Hardaway Jr that much better than DSjr, Morris and Randle?

You answer that question - because if the losing continues, the next step is to look at the talent evaluators in the front office and jettison them in the summer.

franco12
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12/3/2019  12:17 PM
And BTW - every time I come to the board, I expect to see the announcement thread that he's been fired.

Still can't believe I haven't seen it yet.

I think Mills and Scott Perry are afraid that if they fire him, it's an indictment on their decision making. Which in a way it is.

jskinny35
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12/3/2019  12:21 PM
Agree changing coaches is not likely move the needle in terms of win/loss for this season - but it might stop the bleeding with the poor development. While RJ looks solid and Frank seems slightly better, Knox and Mitch seem to have regressed. Maybe it's the players themselves but he's supposed to do well with player relations and while they might dine at Chili's together after games - they keep making the same mistakes night after night. Mitch with foul trouble, reluctance to shoot outside of 3 feet and defensive lapses... Knox started season better with shot selection (coming off bench) but displays inconsistent motor, still chucks too much from 3 and is clueless defensively. Others like Dennis Smith Jr seem lost. Not sure what's going on with Trier but believe Fiz is sitting him until he starts playing both ends with increased intensity - that would be a good reason.

While I think both of these type of players need a tougher coach to bring out their abilities, Fizdale doesn't seem to be reaching them. If you think he's the right coach - then you move the players. I think this is one of those situations where Fiz does well with self-motivated players (eg RJ, Morris, Taj) and is struggling with younger/less coached players (Mitch, Knox). We have a 1/2 of each. I get it's a different generation and I was a huge fan of the 90s teams, but you have coaches that don't win personality awards and still achieve results (eg Carlisle in Dallas). Sounds like we need a dik for a coach that no one likes but get results. At least most of us can respect that as fans - so should the players given how long we've sucked

PassTheBall
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12/3/2019  12:22 PM
franco12 wrote:And BTW - every time I come to the board, I expect to see the announcement thread that he's been fired.

Still can't believe I haven't seen it yet.

I think Mills and Scott Perry are afraid that if they fire him, it's an indictment on their decision making. Which in a way it is.

That’s literally the only thing I’m checking sites for right now. The notice that he (and whoever else) is fired.

We need a change, change is necessary at times. Let’s put Fiz out of his misery.

/PassTheBall
technomaster
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12/3/2019  12:29 PM
stanleybostitch wrote:Because Fizdale is just not a good coach - he's a cheerleader with a hot wife.

Fiz is winning at the game of life, just not the game of basketball.
#respect

The objective in mind with firing him is that you get a more legit coach leading our young players SOONER. I've wondered what it does to a young player's development when they experience instability this early in their careers. I think the best players still succeed because their driven by their own path of self-development. Others need more nurturing and support from their coaches.

Here's what I expect to see with a new coach:
* less experimentation with Randle as a point-forward.
* more time on the floor for the young players, with specific plays designed to get them specific types of reps... like Mitchell Robinson getting positioned on the floor to be the open jump shooter.
* less of RJ Barrett as a primary ball handler.
* less Wayne Ellington.
* a crunch time plan.
* more full court press.

With the young guys, I don't mind them taking the inefficient mid-long range 2 if that's what's ready in their arsenal. What analytics doesn't bluntly tell you is that if you're automatic from 18ft and simply don't have the 3pt range, forcing 3pters is NOT a good shot.

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
smackeddog
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12/3/2019  12:45 PM
To send out a message that no coach should come here- we're doing coaches who might of wanted to ty being a coach for the Knicks a favor
smackeddog
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12/3/2019  12:49 PM
To be fair to Fiz, I looked at this roster before the preseason and I said on these boards a few times I don't envy him at all because I didn't get how the roster fitted together. After all these games I still don't, but I think the best you can do is:

Starting lineup:

PG- Frank
SG- Dot
SF- Barrett (his position of the future I think as we need a better shooter at SG)
PF- Morris
C- Mitch or Taj

Randle can come off the bench and play PF/C. Trier is the backup SG. Don't play Ellington. If DSj can't get out of his funk then Payton is the backup PG. Knox plays backup SF and PF

knicks1248
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12/3/2019  12:52 PM
Fiz said after the game that basically the team stop listening to his little motivational speeches him...

Once that happens its a wrap. On most cases you wait til the season ends, b

Management has failed on every single promise they made. No building around KP, no culture change, they fail miserably at making this an attractive destination, no identity, no accountability, no winning environment..

ES
anrst
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12/3/2019  12:59 PM
if you have a bad coach you get rid of the bad coach
Chandler
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12/3/2019  1:09 PM
time is valuable. we are wasting a year of development. Youths are watching vets go ISO and learning what?

if I trusted him as a developer i might feel differently. KK has regressed; Mitch has regressed. Frank is doing well but is only playing by the process of elimination from Payton and DSJ going missing

Frankly i think a good coach could win more with this squad and develop a lot better too

(5)(7)
technomaster
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12/3/2019  1:44 PM
I reckon after a mini "hot" streak, Frank's FG% (2pt% and 3pt%) is up to .382 on the season, above his career .358. Looking at his per 36 numbers, his steals are up and his TO's are down. He's also scoring less per 36, for what it's worth.

Knox's numbers are remarkably similar to last year's per 36. One very notable change is that his APG is up 50% over last year's clip, 2.1 per 36 vs 1.4.

Robinson is very similar to last year, but has increased his scoring output per 36 to 14.9 from 12.9. He's taking 1 more shot per 36, and he's getting to the line more often too. But his blocks are down 3.4 from 4.3, and his fouls are up to 6.6 from 5.7.

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
What is the purpose of firing Fiz?

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