KnickDanger wrote:What are we expecting from this season...realistically? For me it is (hopefully) development of our young-uns, increasing competitiveness (and wins) as the season progresses, and the establishment of a team vision and identity that (again hopefully) comes from strong effort, defense, and ball movement. As for the first, RJ, Mitch, and Frank all seem to be establishing themselves as genuine NBA players, maybe more. Knox is a little behind that, then DSJ, Dotson, Trier for whom there is still time (no matter what the knuckleheads say). I also see increasing competitiveness and effort. As for team identity I will stay tuned.

No need to freak out but I know that won't stop them.

It’s funny how everyone seems to be a bit down on Knox. He is shooting well but guess what he is experiencing inconsistent playing time. This is the fallacy of the Knicks. Assessment of what talent they have. If not for injuries Frank is riding the bench so talent evaluators failed. Barrett is playing heavy minutes but he is new and a high draft pick so he is getting run. Mitchell is the only center on the squad if they add another watch his minutes dwindle. As is the case with Knox. This is where the Knicks fail and will continue to do so because they don’t know how to evaluate what they have. Look at Trier guy can even get off the bench now last year he was mister green light now he is on the bench. The inconsistency of where this team is going will remain because they don’t know how to prioritize their goals.

Vmart wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:What are we expecting from this season...realistically? For me it is (hopefully) development of our young-uns, increasing competitiveness (and wins) as the season progresses, and the establishment of a team vision and identity that (again hopefully) comes from strong effort, defense, and ball movement. As for the first, RJ, Mitch, and Frank all seem to be establishing themselves as genuine NBA players, maybe more. Knox is a little behind that, then DSJ, Dotson, Trier for whom there is still time (no matter what the knuckleheads say). I also see increasing competitiveness and effort. As for team identity I will stay tuned.

No need to freak out but I know that won't stop them.

It’s funny how everyone seems to be a bit down on Knox. He is shooting well but guess what he is experiencing inconsistent playing time. This is the fallacy of the Knicks. Assessment of what talent they have. If not for injuries Frank is riding the bench so talent evaluators failed. Barrett is playing heavy minutes but he is new and a high draft pick so he is getting run. Mitchell is the only center on the squad if they add another watch his minutes dwindle. As is the case with Knox. This is where the Knicks fail and will continue to do so because they don’t know how to evaluate what they have. Look at Trier guy can even get off the bench now last year he was mister green light now he is on the bench. The inconsistency of where this team is going will remain because they don’t know how to prioritize their goals.

You wrote that without actually looking at his mpg.

Knox has had a very consistent roll off bench.

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:What are we expecting from this season...realistically? For me it is (hopefully) development of our young-uns, increasing competitiveness (and wins) as the season progresses, and the establishment of a team vision and identity that (again hopefully) comes from strong effort, defense, and ball movement. As for the first, RJ, Mitch, and Frank all seem to be establishing themselves as genuine NBA players, maybe more. Knox is a little behind that, then DSJ, Dotson, Trier for whom there is still time (no matter what the knuckleheads say). I also see increasing competitiveness and effort. As for team identity I will stay tuned.

No need to freak out but I know that won't stop them.

It’s funny how everyone seems to be a bit down on Knox. He is shooting well but guess what he is experiencing inconsistent playing time. This is the fallacy of the Knicks. Assessment of what talent they have. If not for injuries Frank is riding the bench so talent evaluators failed. Barrett is playing heavy minutes but he is new and a high draft pick so he is getting run. Mitchell is the only center on the squad if they add another watch his minutes dwindle. As is the case with Knox. This is where the Knicks fail and will continue to do so because they don’t know how to evaluate what they have. Look at Trier guy can even get off the bench now last year he was mister green light now he is on the bench. The inconsistency of where this team is going will remain because they don’t know how to prioritize their goals.

You wrote that without actually looking at his mpg.

Knox has had a very consistent roll off bench.

He is averaging 22 mpg. The last two games he has played 14 and 15. You have massive fluctuations in playing time. One game 32 and the next it’s 14 and 15. He is taking less and less shots. My point is we are not winning with vets so why is a guy as talented as Knox taking a back seat. What about his development.

Do you actually watch the games or pay attention if you do?

This isn’t rocket science. If Knox plays well and the 5 guys out there are doing well, he plays more minutes.

If he isn’t making shots, like against Charlotte, he sits. Or if his defense (with the guys he is out there with) at the end of the 3rd quarter and into the 4th against Dallas let’s them back into the game after being up by like 8, he sits.

Otherwise you OK with the coach making bad decisions and losing games on purpose.

Which is it?

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:What are we expecting from this season...realistically? For me it is (hopefully) development of our young-uns, increasing competitiveness (and wins) as the season progresses, and the establishment of a team vision and identity that (again hopefully) comes from strong effort, defense, and ball movement. As for the first, RJ, Mitch, and Frank all seem to be establishing themselves as genuine NBA players, maybe more. Knox is a little behind that, then DSJ, Dotson, Trier for whom there is still time (no matter what the knuckleheads say). I also see increasing competitiveness and effort. As for team identity I will stay tuned.

No need to freak out but I know that won't stop them.

It’s funny how everyone seems to be a bit down on Knox. He is shooting well but guess what he is experiencing inconsistent playing time. This is the fallacy of the Knicks. Assessment of what talent they have. If not for injuries Frank is riding the bench so talent evaluators failed. Barrett is playing heavy minutes but he is new and a high draft pick so he is getting run. Mitchell is the only center on the squad if they add another watch his minutes dwindle. As is the case with Knox. This is where the Knicks fail and will continue to do so because they don’t know how to evaluate what they have. Look at Trier guy can even get off the bench now last year he was mister green light now he is on the bench. The inconsistency of where this team is going will remain because they don’t know how to prioritize their goals.

You wrote that without actually looking at his mpg.

Knox has had a very consistent roll off bench.

He is averaging 22 mpg. The last two games he has played 14 and 15. You have massive fluctuations in playing time. One game 32 and the next it’s 14 and 15. He is taking less and less shots. My point is we are not winning with vets so why is a guy as talented as Knox taking a back seat. What about his development.

Do you actually watch the games or pay attention if you do?

This isn’t rocket science. If Knox plays well and the 5 guys out there are doing well, he plays more minutes.

If he isn’t making shots, like against Charlotte, he sits. Or if his defense (with the guys he is out there with) at the end of the 3rd quarter and into the 4th against Dallas let’s them back into the game after being up by like 8, he sits.

Otherwise you OK with the coach making bad decisions and losing games on purpose.

Which is it?

Now I’m wondering if you watch the game or pay attention. You are right more often than wrong but in this case you are in the 1%. Which still make you 99% right most of the time. It’s just a matter of building a winning culture and cutting Morris and Randle’s minutes. They invested a lot of money in these guys so agenda and narrative of the Knicks is going to be play them heavy minutes even if Randle is a turnover machine.

Pretty telling that you deflected

Knicks are 3-10. Knox has played exactly 4 games where his minutes have been under 20 minutes. Might you be able to guess the record of those games?

This is where we get to see if there is some sort of correlation

Go for it and then tell me if you get why Knox didn’t play those minutes

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:What are we expecting from this season...realistically? For me it is (hopefully) development of our young-uns, increasing competitiveness (and wins) as the season progresses, and the establishment of a team vision and identity that (again hopefully) comes from strong effort, defense, and ball movement. As for the first, RJ, Mitch, and Frank all seem to be establishing themselves as genuine NBA players, maybe more. Knox is a little behind that, then DSJ, Dotson, Trier for whom there is still time (no matter what the knuckleheads say). I also see increasing competitiveness and effort. As for team identity I will stay tuned.

No need to freak out but I know that won't stop them.

It’s funny how everyone seems to be a bit down on Knox. He is shooting well but guess what he is experiencing inconsistent playing time. This is the fallacy of the Knicks. Assessment of what talent they have. If not for injuries Frank is riding the bench so talent evaluators failed. Barrett is playing heavy minutes but he is new and a high draft pick so he is getting run. Mitchell is the only center on the squad if they add another watch his minutes dwindle. As is the case with Knox. This is where the Knicks fail and will continue to do so because they don’t know how to evaluate what they have. Look at Trier guy can even get off the bench now last year he was mister green light now he is on the bench. The inconsistency of where this team is going will remain because they don’t know how to prioritize their goals.

You wrote that without actually looking at his mpg.

Knox has had a very consistent roll off bench.

He is averaging 22 mpg. The last two games he has played 14 and 15. You have massive fluctuations in playing time. One game 32 and the next it’s 14 and 15. He is taking less and less shots. My point is we are not winning with vets so why is a guy as talented as Knox taking a back seat. What about his development.

Do you actually watch the games or pay attention if you do?

This isn’t rocket science. If Knox plays well and the 5 guys out there are doing well, he plays more minutes.

If he isn’t making shots, like against Charlotte, he sits. Or if his defense (with the guys he is out there with) at the end of the 3rd quarter and into the 4th against Dallas let’s them back into the game after being up by like 8, he sits.

Otherwise you OK with the coach making bad decisions and losing games on purpose.

Which is it?

Now I’m wondering if you watch the game or pay attention. You are right more often than wrong but in this case you are in the 1%. Which still make you 99% right most of the time. It’s just a matter of building a winning culture and cutting Morris and Randle’s minutes. They invested a lot of money in these guys so agenda and narrative of the Knicks is going to be play them heavy minutes even if Randle is a turnover machine.

Pretty telling that you deflected

Knicks are 3-10. Knox has played exactly 4 games where his minutes have been under 20 minutes. Might you be able to guess the record of those games?

This is where we get to see if there is some sort of correlation

Go for it and then tell me if you get why Knox didn’t play those minutes

So you are putting the Knicks record on Knox playing more than 20 minutes. The 3 wins they have he has played in the teens. The way I see the game is Knox is often teamed up with a defensively weak squad.
If you watched the games you would see that the entire team goes down hill once Frank is out the game. So to place blame on Knox and his minutes on losses I find it ridiculous. He needs more playing time and shots. Should be in the lineup with MR and Frank.

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:What are we expecting from this season...realistically? For me it is (hopefully) development of our young-uns, increasing competitiveness (and wins) as the season progresses, and the establishment of a team vision and identity that (again hopefully) comes from strong effort, defense, and ball movement. As for the first, RJ, Mitch, and Frank all seem to be establishing themselves as genuine NBA players, maybe more. Knox is a little behind that, then DSJ, Dotson, Trier for whom there is still time (no matter what the knuckleheads say). I also see increasing competitiveness and effort. As for team identity I will stay tuned.

No need to freak out but I know that won't stop them.

It’s funny how everyone seems to be a bit down on Knox. He is shooting well but guess what he is experiencing inconsistent playing time. This is the fallacy of the Knicks. Assessment of what talent they have. If not for injuries Frank is riding the bench so talent evaluators failed. Barrett is playing heavy minutes but he is new and a high draft pick so he is getting run. Mitchell is the only center on the squad if they add another watch his minutes dwindle. As is the case with Knox. This is where the Knicks fail and will continue to do so because they don’t know how to evaluate what they have. Look at Trier guy can even get off the bench now last year he was mister green light now he is on the bench. The inconsistency of where this team is going will remain because they don’t know how to prioritize their goals.

You wrote that without actually looking at his mpg.

Knox has had a very consistent roll off bench.

He is averaging 22 mpg. The last two games he has played 14 and 15. You have massive fluctuations in playing time. One game 32 and the next it’s 14 and 15. He is taking less and less shots. My point is we are not winning with vets so why is a guy as talented as Knox taking a back seat. What about his development.

Do you actually watch the games or pay attention if you do?

This isn’t rocket science. If Knox plays well and the 5 guys out there are doing well, he plays more minutes.

If he isn’t making shots, like against Charlotte, he sits. Or if his defense (with the guys he is out there with) at the end of the 3rd quarter and into the 4th against Dallas let’s them back into the game after being up by like 8, he sits.

Otherwise you OK with the coach making bad decisions and losing games on purpose.

Which is it?

Now I’m wondering if you watch the game or pay attention. You are right more often than wrong but in this case you are in the 1%. Which still make you 99% right most of the time. It’s just a matter of building a winning culture and cutting Morris and Randle’s minutes. They invested a lot of money in these guys so agenda and narrative of the Knicks is going to be play them heavy minutes even if Randle is a turnover machine.

Pretty telling that you deflected

Knicks are 3-10. Knox has played exactly 4 games where his minutes have been under 20 minutes. Might you be able to guess the record of those games?

This is where we get to see if there is some sort of correlation

Go for it and then tell me if you get why Knox didn’t play those minutes

So you are putting the Knicks record on Knox playing more than 20 minutes. The 3 wins they have he has played in the teens. The way I see the game is Knox is often teamed up with a defensively weak squad.
If you watched the games you would see that the entire team goes down hill once Frank is out the game. So to place blame on Knox and his minutes on losses I find it ridiculous. He needs more playing time and shots. Should be in the lineup with MR and Frank.

I think its more about Morris carrying the team at times keeping Knox on the bench. Morris is here on a one year deal. I don't think team is down on Knox at all but he has to earn what was given to him last year due to having Morris and RJ on the team now. I don't think "blame" is the right word, I think if you watch Kevin he is uneven. The good is he moves better withtout the ball and his defense is improved. Its inconsistent which is fine if his shot is not dropping but inconsistent means there are times he is not hitting his shots, and not doing the other things either. I dig it when he is taking the ball to the rim. He needs to recognize the double and move the ball earlier if the path to the rim is closing. Not sure he sees the movement at a high level yet. He is thinking a bit too much. Its ok, it will come.

on a side note notice the fancy passes Frank is making? Shows a comfort level. Shows progress. Where does it go? Hell if I know. Im taking 10 games at a time. My concern is Dennis needs to provide 20 minutes of productive play.

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:What are we expecting from this season...realistically? For me it is (hopefully) development of our young-uns, increasing competitiveness (and wins) as the season progresses, and the establishment of a team vision and identity that (again hopefully) comes from strong effort, defense, and ball movement. As for the first, RJ, Mitch, and Frank all seem to be establishing themselves as genuine NBA players, maybe more. Knox is a little behind that, then DSJ, Dotson, Trier for whom there is still time (no matter what the knuckleheads say). I also see increasing competitiveness and effort. As for team identity I will stay tuned.

No need to freak out but I know that won't stop them.

It’s funny how everyone seems to be a bit down on Knox. He is shooting well but guess what he is experiencing inconsistent playing time. This is the fallacy of the Knicks. Assessment of what talent they have. If not for injuries Frank is riding the bench so talent evaluators failed. Barrett is playing heavy minutes but he is new and a high draft pick so he is getting run. Mitchell is the only center on the squad if they add another watch his minutes dwindle. As is the case with Knox. This is where the Knicks fail and will continue to do so because they don’t know how to evaluate what they have. Look at Trier guy can even get off the bench now last year he was mister green light now he is on the bench. The inconsistency of where this team is going will remain because they don’t know how to prioritize their goals.

You wrote that without actually looking at his mpg.

Knox has had a very consistent roll off bench.

He is averaging 22 mpg. The last two games he has played 14 and 15. You have massive fluctuations in playing time. One game 32 and the next it’s 14 and 15. He is taking less and less shots. My point is we are not winning with vets so why is a guy as talented as Knox taking a back seat. What about his development.

Do you actually watch the games or pay attention if you do?

This isn’t rocket science. If Knox plays well and the 5 guys out there are doing well, he plays more minutes.

If he isn’t making shots, like against Charlotte, he sits. Or if his defense (with the guys he is out there with) at the end of the 3rd quarter and into the 4th against Dallas let’s them back into the game after being up by like 8, he sits.

Otherwise you OK with the coach making bad decisions and losing games on purpose.

Which is it?

Now I’m wondering if you watch the game or pay attention. You are right more often than wrong but in this case you are in the 1%. Which still make you 99% right most of the time. It’s just a matter of building a winning culture and cutting Morris and Randle’s minutes. They invested a lot of money in these guys so agenda and narrative of the Knicks is going to be play them heavy minutes even if Randle is a turnover machine.

Pretty telling that you deflected

Knicks are 3-10. Knox has played exactly 4 games where his minutes have been under 20 minutes. Might you be able to guess the record of those games?

This is where we get to see if there is some sort of correlation

Go for it and then tell me if you get why Knox didn’t play those minutes

So you are putting the Knicks record on Knox playing more than 20 minutes. The 3 wins they have he has played in the teens. The way I see the game is Knox is often teamed up with a defensively weak squad.
If you watched the games you would see that the entire team goes down hill once Frank is out the game. So to place blame on Knox and his minutes on losses I find it ridiculous. He needs more playing time and shots. Should be in the lineup with MR and Frank.

Your replies are getting more convoluted and twisted and are just baked so you can hide from your original, no idea why you would need to feel the need to do it.

I find it ridiculous to blame Knox for loses too, and that's why you didn't see me to do it. I did try to point our a correlation on the wins for you. Let's repeat that: I was pointing out wins and you went to try to make it about Knox and loses.

A coach should have the ability to hold players accountable and adjust their minutes accordingly. And let's just say having Frank guard Doncic is a good one, which will necessitate Knox not playing (cause he would be matched up against a guard). Or when Knox is not playing good D or O, like against Charlotte, he should be pulled.

Knox has averaged 20+ minutes a game and has only had 4 games where he didn't get 20 and they were wins, so it's not a stretch to understand why it happened.

Knox is not a good defensive player. The Knicks most productive player plays the same position. Every once in a while Knox has not had a shooting game.

No reason to make this more than it has to be.

franco12 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

franco12 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:What are we expecting from this season...realistically? For me it is (hopefully) development of our young-uns, increasing competitiveness (and wins) as the season progresses, and the establishment of a team vision and identity that (again hopefully) comes from strong effort, defense, and ball movement. As for the first, RJ, Mitch, and Frank all seem to be establishing themselves as genuine NBA players, maybe more. Knox is a little behind that, then DSJ, Dotson, Trier for whom there is still time (no matter what the knuckleheads say). I also see increasing competitiveness and effort. As for team identity I will stay tuned.

No need to freak out but I know that won't stop them.

It’s funny how everyone seems to be a bit down on Knox. He is shooting well but guess what he is experiencing inconsistent playing time. This is the fallacy of the Knicks. Assessment of what talent they have. If not for injuries Frank is riding the bench so talent evaluators failed. Barrett is playing heavy minutes but he is new and a high draft pick so he is getting run. Mitchell is the only center on the squad if they add another watch his minutes dwindle. As is the case with Knox. This is where the Knicks fail and will continue to do so because they don’t know how to evaluate what they have. Look at Trier guy can even get off the bench now last year he was mister green light now he is on the bench. The inconsistency of where this team is going will remain because they don’t know how to prioritize their goals.

You wrote that without actually looking at his mpg.

Knox has had a very consistent roll off bench.

He is averaging 22 mpg. The last two games he has played 14 and 15. You have massive fluctuations in playing time. One game 32 and the next it’s 14 and 15. He is taking less and less shots. My point is we are not winning with vets so why is a guy as talented as Knox taking a back seat. What about his development.

Do you actually watch the games or pay attention if you do?

This isn’t rocket science. If Knox plays well and the 5 guys out there are doing well, he plays more minutes.

If he isn’t making shots, like against Charlotte, he sits. Or if his defense (with the guys he is out there with) at the end of the 3rd quarter and into the 4th against Dallas let’s them back into the game after being up by like 8, he sits.

Otherwise you OK with the coach making bad decisions and losing games on purpose.

Which is it?

Now I’m wondering if you watch the game or pay attention. You are right more often than wrong but in this case you are in the 1%. Which still make you 99% right most of the time. It’s just a matter of building a winning culture and cutting Morris and Randle’s minutes. They invested a lot of money in these guys so agenda and narrative of the Knicks is going to be play them heavy minutes even if Randle is a turnover machine.

Pretty telling that you deflected

Knicks are 3-10. Knox has played exactly 4 games where his minutes have been under 20 minutes. Might you be able to guess the record of those games?

This is where we get to see if there is some sort of correlation

Go for it and then tell me if you get why Knox didn’t play those minutes

So you are putting the Knicks record on Knox playing more than 20 minutes. The 3 wins they have he has played in the teens. The way I see the game is Knox is often teamed up with a defensively weak squad.
If you watched the games you would see that the entire team goes down hill once Frank is out the game. So to place blame on Knox and his minutes on losses I find it ridiculous. He needs more playing time and shots. Should be in the lineup with MR and Frank.

Funny, I actually like how Knox is being brought along. He played too many minutes last year - too much was asked of him.

His shot has looked really good. I see a potentially taller Alan Houston with his smooth shot.

But his defense is also mindblowingly bad. I don't need him to be Scottie Pippen. I just need him to NOT GET lost and stay in front of his man.

When we expect too much from these kids - and he basically is a kid- we start to crush their development. Not everyone is Lebron and able to carry a team at 18. And that is ok.

wouldn't have to do with him wearing the same number? LOL. The bigger shoulders? Skin tone? He does have some Allan Houstan qualities! Have to consider Allan was a 22 year old rookie in Detroit avg 19 min a game and 8.5 pts his rookie campaign. Other than one 50 game season at age 27 he missed less than 5 games a season until he was 32. Age 31 he playd all 82 games for the 4th time in his career.

Knox won't be 21 until August. He is avg. 22 min a game.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/houstal01.html

I'd like to think it's less the other physical likenesses, and more the mechanics and look of the way they shoot.

I tried to find a good video, but not finding anything quickly.

Even if Knox can develop into Hubert Davis 2.0, having the kind of shot he shows, even with the poor defense, we will be happy to have him on the team.

H20 was a very smooth fundamentally sound player. his footwork to create space and his delivery was a work of art. He was not explosively athletic either. His rise in the third year of his career coinciding with free agency was life changing for him and his family. He was just 25 and on the rise. I always believed his opt out and subsequent high end deal we gave him was a hand shake deal we lived up to despite the fact he could not live up to that money. That aside, he was an very good knick and had his indelible moment with "the shot". We stabbed Riley and Heat one more time and made our improbable run to the finals in 1999.
The story I believe is if he did not sign his first deal we were going to sign Reggie Miller who was north of 30 at the time.

The candidates were winnowed down to Miller and Allan Houston. Miller was a proven commodity under pressure, a natural attraction. Miller had the personality for the place. Houston was younger and more likely to sign without dragging the team through a series of negotiating ploys. Grunfeld and Dave Checketts didn’t want to be used as leverage. They might have ended with nothing, after all the maneuvering. The Knicks finally signed Houston, while Miller was in Atlanta for the 1996 Olympics. The Indiana player got the news at the U.S. team’s hotel, and went whining to U.S. teammate Grant Hill of the Pistons. “Your guy just ruined my plans,” Miller told Hill. Nobody really knew what Miller’s plans might have been, including Houston. “I didn’t care,” Houston said yesterday. “I did what was the best situation for me.”

While hindsight might have told us that could have been the better value we did not know how much Reggie had left in the tank. He played to age 39 and still made two allstar teams. He might have just wanted to use knicks to gain a better contract? Thus we don't know if he really would have signed.