This team given its 9 new faces and unknown how much our yoot can handle as the season progresses will no doubt have many lineup changes. Some fans ill be “fatigued” by this occurrence. ITs necessary. last night we gave Morris the chance. The Vets get that first opportunity. If they get bypassed by younger player its obvious for all to see. Seems this is the law of the locker room over the years.

In my opinion this is at best a 30 win team. Thats a vast improvement over last year but its still not a good team. We don’t look like a good team. Will they get it together in the next week? I doubt it.

ATL did not look great, and knicks not the only team in transition. My issue was how bad DSjr looked last night. Since I am usually on the “patience” side I realize he has not played but we read how he lost weight, how he fixed his shot. How good shape he was in. He looked silly trying to defend young.
In Frank good or we know what we have. The kid has done what he did last night many times before. Did a lot of really good things except shoot. If that is evolving its a good thing. With smith what do we have? A chronic back condition? They both have played the same amount of games. Frank played 78 games his rookie year. smith has missed similar parts of two with the same back issue. Frank had shoulder and then his groin issue. Missed 43 games, an awful season!

IM less concerned about extending Frank then Dennis. Thats not a resounding endorsement for Frank BTW, its just based on what I have seen. I hate the thought of KP being allstar and Dennis being broken. I hope that thought goes away with good play!

I think we Start RJ and Payton in the back court. Frank off the bench then Smith. Smith will get opportunity.
Is Trier injured or in the dog house? Dot??

There will be a trade. I don’t know if its Frank, Dot or Trier. Rumors are Detroit wants Frank and doubt they want to pay up

Were we expecting a 50 win team? Its going to take time.

This one is on Perry. As, is signing another reclamation project of his that is redundant in our offense. I am very confused with Fizdale and his coaching. Barrett is playing to many minutes and DSJR should be our bench scoring threat, not our starting point guard.

Allanfan20 wrote:Elfrid has been painfully vanilla. DSJr is concerning me. His defense is lacking and his shot did not look good at all. I don’t worry about Franks shot as much as others. It’s Dennis that’s bothering me.

None of this has anything to do with coaching.

Payton is probably the starter. He is proven as a stopgap starter at least. He can create and is much more efficient than Frank and DSj. Not ideal, but he's started everywhere he went. He's a starter, just a replaceable one.

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I like what we have everywhere else right now. Mitch and Bobby at Center, Randle at PF, Morris and Knox at SF, and Barrett at SG. All can be keepers. But PG once again leaves so much to be desired. Payton is probably the safest bet right now, and maybe he can take a legit step forward. But he can't shoot and seems like a poor long-term fit alongside Barrett, since he's going to be a playmaker. Dennis Smith has talent, sure, and he may have some big breakout games here and there. But he feels more like a long-term 6th man type in the Present-day D Rose mold. Frank looked good guarding Young and has a future in the league as a backup, defensive stopper. But what's the long-term answer at PG? None of these guys can shoot. Hope for Payton or Smith to break out? Next year's draft has some options i guess. The PG market in free agency doesn't look great the next couple of years. We could go after VanVleet in the offseason, who's fit is excellent next to Barrett, but not sure if overpaying him is the answer. Hopefully the front office can figure this out. It's been going on way too long.

I literally was about to start a thread on the this same topic..

To make matters worse, Fiz has basically given just about everyone the green light to bring the ball up court in his positionless system. I saw knox, rj, dsj, frank, Morris, randle, ellington all given the opportunity,and none of them look fluid.

I think we had like 2 fast breaks the entire game and scored 96 points, that is absolutely ridiculous, go look at the scoreboard from all the games last night, almost every team that won scored 120 or more, and no one scored less than 110, except GSW who rested everybody who rested curry.

The funny thing is they all keep saying they are not worry about the offense, but that looks worse than the defense, all we have is Pick and roll and post play, that's 90's style basketball.

I could give DSJ a pass cause he hasn't play in a game since march, but the rest of our guards can not shoot at all, and our bigs shoot better from the perimeter, thats crazy.

How do you pair so many bad shooters in your back court..WTH

I think Barrett will be a good playmaker once he gets his NBA footing. He's good in the open floor and will improve his decision making as the year goes. It's all about finding someone who pairs well with him now.

fwk00 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I like what we have everywhere else right now. Mitch and Bobby at Center, Randle at PF, Morris and Knox at SF, and Barrett at SG. All can be keepers. But PG once again leaves so much to be desired. Payton is probably the safest bet right now, and maybe he can take a legit step forward. But he can't shoot and seems like a poor long-term fit alongside Barrett, since he's going to be a playmaker. Dennis Smith has talent, sure, and he may have some big breakout games here and there. But he feels more like a long-term 6th man type in the Present-day D Rose mold. Frank looked good guarding Young and has a future in the league as a backup, defensive stopper. But what's the long-term answer at PG? None of these guys can shoot. Hope for Payton or Smith to break out? Next year's draft has some options i guess. The PG market in free agency doesn't look great the next couple of years. We could go after VanVleet in the offseason, who's fit is excellent next to Barrett, but not sure if overpaying him is the answer. Hopefully the front office can figure this out. It's been going on way too long.

I literally was about to start a thread on the this same topic..

To make matters worse, Fiz has basically given just about everyone the green light to bring the ball up court in his positionless system. I saw knox, rj, dsj, frank, Morris, randle, ellington all given the opportunity,and none of them look fluid.

I think we had like 2 fast breaks the entire game and scored 96 points, that is absolutely ridiculous, go look at the scoreboard from all the games last night, almost every team that won scored 120 or more, and no one scored less than 110, except GSW who rested everybody who rested curry.

The funny thing is they all keep saying they are not worry about the offense, but that looks worse than the defense, all we have is Pick and roll and post play, that's 90's style basketball.

I could give DSJ a pass cause he hasn't play in a game since march, but the rest of our guards can not shoot at all, and our bigs shoot better from the perimeter, thats crazy.

How do you pair so many bad shooters in your back court..WTH

I think Barrett will be a good playmaker once he gets his NBA footing. He's good in the open floor and will improve his decision making as the year goes. It's all about finding someone who pairs well with him now.

How is that not Frank? As bad as Frank's offense has been if he starts he's got 3 scorers next to him in Morris/Randle/RJ. We dont need a scoring PG in that line up. We need a ball handler who sets guys up and plays D.

Totally agree.

My problem with Payton is that is is no further along in development than Frankie is yet has been in the league longer. I don't hate him but IMO, Frankie is the man.

As for DSJ, move him. I don't care about the "rust" issue - I didn't see a player who belonged in the game. Rust aside, he should have shown *something/anything*. We can't spend time on a face-saving project - this is a rabbit hole not worth going down.

Likewise, I'm not a Trier fan. ISO-ball is a recipe for stat-padding and losses. Trier might be a good 7/8 choice off the bench.

I haven't watched much of Payton but all indications where that he and New Orleans were humming along with him as PG outside of injury situations.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/NYPost_Berman/status/1184892526039326722

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I like what we have everywhere else right now. Mitch and Bobby at Center, Randle at PF, Morris and Knox at SF, and Barrett at SG. All can be keepers. But PG once again leaves so much to be desired. Payton is probably the safest bet right now, and maybe he can take a legit step forward. But he can't shoot and seems like a poor long-term fit alongside Barrett, since he's going to be a playmaker. Dennis Smith has talent, sure, and he may have some big breakout games here and there. But he feels more like a long-term 6th man type in the Present-day D Rose mold. Frank looked good guarding Young and has a future in the league as a backup, defensive stopper. But what's the long-term answer at PG? None of these guys can shoot. Hope for Payton or Smith to break out? Next year's draft has some options i guess. The PG market in free agency doesn't look great the next couple of years. We could go after VanVleet in the offseason, who's fit is excellent next to Barrett, but not sure if overpaying him is the answer. Hopefully the front office can figure this out. It's been going on way too long.

I literally was about to start a thread on the this same topic..

To make matters worse, Fiz has basically given just about everyone the green light to bring the ball up court in his positionless system. I saw knox, rj, dsj, frank, Morris, randle, ellington all given the opportunity,and none of them look fluid.

I think we had like 2 fast breaks the entire game and scored 96 points, that is absolutely ridiculous, go look at the scoreboard from all the games last night, almost every team that won scored 120 or more, and no one scored less than 110, except GSW who rested everybody who rested curry.

The funny thing is they all keep saying they are not worry about the offense, but that looks worse than the defense, all we have is Pick and roll and post play, that's 90's style basketball.

I could give DSJ a pass cause he hasn't play in a game since march, but the rest of our guards can not shoot at all, and our bigs shoot better from the perimeter, thats crazy.

How do you pair so many bad shooters in your back court..WTH

I think Barrett will be a good playmaker once he gets his NBA footing. He's good in the open floor and will improve his decision making as the year goes. It's all about finding someone who pairs well with him now.

How is that not Frank? As bad as Frank's offense has been if he starts he's got 3 scorers next to him in Morris/Randle/RJ. We dont need a scoring PG in that line up. We need a ball handler who sets guys up and plays D.

The problem with Frank is he can't shoot (to this point) and is completely uninterested in being a scoring threat. Can't put a guy next to RJ that will shoot 35% from the field and 30% from 3pt, or whatever, and expect him to be the solution. We don't need a scorer at PG, but we need someone at least capable of keeping a defense honest.

Feel like that is changing... Regular season games will be telling.

martin wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:I like what we have everywhere else right now. Mitch and Bobby at Center, Randle at PF, Morris and Knox at SF, and Barrett at SG. All can be keepers. But PG once again leaves so much to be desired. Payton is probably the safest bet right now, and maybe he can take a legit step forward. But he can't shoot and seems like a poor long-term fit alongside Barrett, since he's going to be a playmaker. Dennis Smith has talent, sure, and he may have some big breakout games here and there. But he feels more like a long-term 6th man type in the Present-day D Rose mold. Frank looked good guarding Young and has a future in the league as a backup, defensive stopper. But what's the long-term answer at PG? None of these guys can shoot. Hope for Payton or Smith to break out? Next year's draft has some options i guess. The PG market in free agency doesn't look great the next couple of years. We could go after VanVleet in the offseason, who's fit is excellent next to Barrett, but not sure if overpaying him is the answer. Hopefully the front office can figure this out. It's been going on way too long.

I literally was about to start a thread on the this same topic..

To make matters worse, Fiz has basically given just about everyone the green light to bring the ball up court in his positionless system. I saw knox, rj, dsj, frank, Morris, randle, ellington all given the opportunity,and none of them look fluid.

I think we had like 2 fast breaks the entire game and scored 96 points, that is absolutely ridiculous, go look at the scoreboard from all the games last night, almost every team that won scored 120 or more, and no one scored less than 110, except GSW who rested everybody who rested curry.

The funny thing is they all keep saying they are not worry about the offense, but that looks worse than the defense, all we have is Pick and roll and post play, that's 90's style basketball.

I could give DSJ a pass cause he hasn't play in a game since march, but the rest of our guards can not shoot at all, and our bigs shoot better from the perimeter, thats crazy.

How do you pair so many bad shooters in your back court..WTH

I think Barrett will be a good playmaker once he gets his NBA footing. He's good in the open floor and will improve his decision making as the year goes. It's all about finding someone who pairs well with him now.

How is that not Frank? As bad as Frank's offense has been if he starts he's got 3 scorers next to him in Morris/Randle/RJ. We dont need a scoring PG in that line up. We need a ball handler who sets guys up and plays D.

Totally agree.

My problem with Payton is that is is no further along in development than Frankie is yet has been in the league longer. I don't hate him but IMO, Frankie is the man.

As for DSJ, move him. I don't care about the "rust" issue - I didn't see a player who belonged in the game. Rust aside, he should have shown *something/anything*. We can't spend time on a face-saving project - this is a rabbit hole not worth going down.

Likewise, I'm not a Trier fan. ISO-ball is a recipe for stat-padding and losses. Trier might be a good 7/8 choice off the bench.

I haven't watched much of Payton but all indications where that he and New Orleans were humming along with him as PG outside of injury situations.

Yes, both things can be true. I think both Payton and Frankie are *sufficient* PGs for this team. Neither need to score assuming they manage everything else nicely. Given that they are so similar, my argument is that Frankie has more upside because of his youth and is no more a liability than Payton is argued to be.

I was a Payton fan when he entered the league. The fact that Frankie is neck and neck with him indicates either that Frankie is a fast learner or that Payton's development is taking longer.