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Why do people have any faith in Mills?
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nychamp
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6/22/2019  10:11 AM
I get wanting to give Perry a chance, but why do people lump Mills in with him as part of the "new regime" running the Knicks? He's been Dolan's right hand man/yes man/minion for years, made crappy basketball decisions when it was up to him (Hardaway, etc.) and toes the ridiculous corporate line established by the totally unreasonable and basketball-clueless Dolan. As far as I can see, he has had nothing to do with any success (not talking $, I get it, they print money, congratulations) in his long tenure. Oh, he played for Princeton. Cool story. I'm puzzled, truly. Guy has shown less than nothing.
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Cartman718
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6/22/2019  10:35 AM
He's letting Perry do his job. That gives me faith in him. He invited a draftee to dinner and watch nba finals with him. That gives me faith in him. He's committed to build the right way and has a compadre in Perry with the same sentiment. That gives me faith in him. and He's managed to convince Doland to put an all black front office together between him, Perry, Fiz, Craig Robinson. That gives me faith in him. I was a bit mad at the THJr signing, but have forgiven him because of what has happened since.

We are talking about a sport where the majority of the players are of African descent and the Knicks are the only FO to represent that right. Yes...that does give me faith in him.

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
ekstarks94
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6/22/2019  11:24 AM
Cartman718 wrote:He's letting Perry do his job. That gives me faith in him. He invited a draftee to dinner and watch nba finals with him. That gives me faith in him. He's committed to build the right way and has a compadre in Perry with the same sentiment. That gives me faith in him. and He's managed to convince Doland to put an all black front office together between him, Perry, Fiz, Craig Robinson. That gives me faith in him. I was a bit mad at the THJr signing, but have forgiven him because of what has happened since.

We are talking about a sport where the majority of the players are of African descent and the Knicks are the only FO to represent that right. Yes...that does give me faith in him.

+ infinity

Nalod
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6/22/2019  12:27 PM
Faith in Mills because for the most part once he was put in charge he has taken the best of what Phil was doing and has purified the process. Before you get “Results” there has to be a process. IF Dolan was playing chess he was too focused on short term moves. MIlls seems to understand you can get a star but then not enough talent won’t support a good run. Get AD would have been similar. His biggest blunder was THjr and really it was minor. He had to get someone to play with KP. At 18mm, it really was not terrible. If he is healthy and with talent we might see what Mills was thinking. After that he hired Perry right away.

Mills is doing what most good GM’s do but each team has its own circumstances. Marks in Brooklyn needed two years to get here. He had a good trade chip in BroPez and did well with Russell. And he hired a young first time coach.
They sucked for two years. Season three they made the playoffs. Is that the new model? If so, Fiz has two more seasons.

As for Mills as president of MSG he was not involved in any basketball related decisions while Isiah and Dolan put what was the most epic disaster of pro sports history given the deviance of cap to the mean and 23 wins produced all burning two top 5 lottery picks. The depths of this organization was pathetic! Amare then Melo was short sighted sugar rush. Bloody awful Dolan moves. Can’t blame Walsh. Mills was gone.
Dolan does the right thing to hire MIlls (well respected and was about to be hired by NBA corporate or head up league union but starphuching Phil diluted his ability.
IF Mills came from Spurs or any franchise doing well he’d have more cred. Thats understandable.
Sam Presti came from the Spurs and then dismantled the Sonics to get more picks. Had a base of in prime Ray Allen and Rashad Lewis to make deals and create cap space while reducing payroll. They basically tore it down, sucked and build thru the draft as the team was sold and then moved. There were lean years. Mills and Perry are doing this. Knicks were deprived of picks which is why Phil attempted to tread water with Rose and NOah with Melo. So when PHil was made gone our main piece was KP who Phil wanted to trade.
My point is not so much Mills but the condition by which he finally inherited full control fo the team. This is why when you look at the hierarchy of his previous employment here and his role under Phil you get better sense that blame is not solely on him being inept.
Seemingly the plan to open a path for Durant was hailed as excellent. Fate of injury to that plan was cruel. It derailed other teams. Sometimes the path comes to fruition. You have to commit to the plan first. The decisiveness of trading KP was excellent but really we don’t know the results. You can only look at the moment it was done and all the facts at that time. Hindsight will tell a different story perhaps. KP fulfills a HOF career and we falter it will look bad. KP gets max money then seemingly is never healthy until he is forced to retire, becomes a drug king pin in a third world country and dropped from a helicopter for his arrogance by Janis who is the real “Brains” of the organization........well then we can lay praise on what a good trade it was!!!!

I like what the knicks are doing. As for Sam Presti, has his cred been tarnished? He drafted three MVP’s who could not co-exist and kept one. Harden was traded for far less than what he turned into and KP walked out with no compensation. The lone player he kept, a MVP double triple what ever machine does not make others better. He now has to dump Steve Adams to keep them from tax hell and the fracking profits of OKC are dwindling. OKC had the best base of talent. Shyt happens. Presti the genius fell like many other good ones to law of averages. This shyt is hard and after a few great wins he missed on a few.

Which Presti do you want? Circumstances play a huge role. Consider them before you lay blame or praise.

Knixkik
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6/22/2019  12:31 PM
Mills has been part of the problem in the past but I think there’s value in seeing everything that went wrong over the years and being committed to doing it right now that he’s completely in charge.
CrushAlot
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6/22/2019  12:33 PM
Nalod wrote:Faith in Mills because for the most part once he was put in charge he has taken the best of what Phil was doing and has purified the process. Before you get “Results” there has to be a process. IF Dolan was playing chess he was too focused on short term moves. MIlls seems to understand you can get a star but then not enough talent won’t support a good run. Get AD would have been similar. His biggest blunder was THjr and really it was minor. He had to get someone to play with KP. At 18mm, it really was not terrible. If he is healthy and with talent we might see what Mills was thinking. After that he hired Perry right away.

Mills is doing what most good GM’s do but each team has its own circumstances. Marks in Brooklyn needed two years to get here. He had a good trade chip in BroPez and did well with Russell. And he hired a young first time coach.
They sucked for two years. Season three they made the playoffs. Is that the new model? If so, Fiz has two more seasons.

As for Mills as president of MSG he was not involved in any basketball related decisions while Isiah and Dolan put what was the most epic disaster of pro sports history given the deviance of cap to the mean and 23 wins produced all burning two top 5 lottery picks. The depths of this organization was pathetic! Amare then Melo was short sighted sugar rush. Bloody awful Dolan moves. Can’t blame Walsh. Mills was gone.
Dolan does the right thing to hire MIlls (well respected and was about to be hired by NBA corporate or head up league union but starphuching Phil diluted his ability.
IF Mills came from Spurs or any franchise doing well he’d have more cred. Thats understandable.
Sam Presti came from the Spurs and then dismantled the Sonics to get more picks. Had a base of in prime Ray Allen and Rashad Lewis to make deals and create cap space while reducing payroll. They basically tore it down, sucked and build thru the draft as the team was sold and then moved. There were lean years. Mills and Perry are doing this. Knicks were deprived of picks which is why Phil attempted to tread water with Rose and NOah with Melo. So when PHil was made gone our main piece was KP who Phil wanted to trade.
My point is not so much Mills but the condition by which he finally inherited full control fo the team. This is why when you look at the hierarchy of his previous employment here and his role under Phil you get better sense that blame is not solely on him being inept.
Seemingly the plan to open a path for Durant was hailed as excellent. Fate of injury to that plan was cruel. It derailed other teams. Sometimes the path comes to fruition. You have to commit to the plan first. The decisiveness of trading KP was excellent but really we don’t know the results. You can only look at the moment it was done and all the facts at that time. Hindsight will tell a different story perhaps. KP fulfills a HOF career and we falter it will look bad. KP gets max money then seemingly is never healthy until he is forced to retire, becomes a drug king pin in a third world country and dropped from a helicopter for his arrogance by Janis who is the real “Brains” of the organization........well then we can lay praise on what a good trade it was!!!!

I like what the knicks are doing. As for Sam Presti, has his cred been tarnished? He drafted three MVP’s who could not co-exist and kept one. Harden was traded for far less than what he turned into and KP walked out with no compensation. The lone player he kept, a MVP double triple what ever machine does not make others better. He now has to dump Steve Adams to keep them from tax hell and the fracking profits of OKC are dwindling. OKC had the best base of talent. Shyt happens. Presti the genius fell like many other good ones to law of averages. This shyt is hard and after a few great wins he missed on a few.

Which Presti do you want? Circumstances play a huge role. Consider them before you lay blame or praise.

What do you mean by taken the best of what Phil was doing?
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Nalod
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6/22/2019  12:52 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Nalod wrote:Faith in Mills because for the most part once he was put in charge he has taken the best of what Phil was doing and has purified the process. Before you get “Results” there has to be a process. IF Dolan was playing chess he was too focused on short term moves. MIlls seems to understand you can get a star but then not enough talent won’t support a good run. Get AD would have been similar. His biggest blunder was THjr and really it was minor. He had to get someone to play with KP. At 18mm, it really was not terrible. If he is healthy and with talent we might see what Mills was thinking. After that he hired Perry right away.

Mills is doing what most good GM’s do but each team has its own circumstances. Marks in Brooklyn needed two years to get here. He had a good trade chip in BroPez and did well with Russell. And he hired a young first time coach.
They sucked for two years. Season three they made the playoffs. Is that the new model? If so, Fiz has two more seasons.

As for Mills as president of MSG he was not involved in any basketball related decisions while Isiah and Dolan put what was the most epic disaster of pro sports history given the deviance of cap to the mean and 23 wins produced all burning two top 5 lottery picks. The depths of this organization was pathetic! Amare then Melo was short sighted sugar rush. Bloody awful Dolan moves. Can’t blame Walsh. Mills was gone.
Dolan does the right thing to hire MIlls (well respected and was about to be hired by NBA corporate or head up league union but starphuching Phil diluted his ability.
IF Mills came from Spurs or any franchise doing well he’d have more cred. Thats understandable.
Sam Presti came from the Spurs and then dismantled the Sonics to get more picks. Had a base of in prime Ray Allen and Rashad Lewis to make deals and create cap space while reducing payroll. They basically tore it down, sucked and build thru the draft as the team was sold and then moved. There were lean years. Mills and Perry are doing this. Knicks were deprived of picks which is why Phil attempted to tread water with Rose and NOah with Melo. So when PHil was made gone our main piece was KP who Phil wanted to trade.
My point is not so much Mills but the condition by which he finally inherited full control fo the team. This is why when you look at the hierarchy of his previous employment here and his role under Phil you get better sense that blame is not solely on him being inept.
Seemingly the plan to open a path for Durant was hailed as excellent. Fate of injury to that plan was cruel. It derailed other teams. Sometimes the path comes to fruition. You have to commit to the plan first. The decisiveness of trading KP was excellent but really we don’t know the results. You can only look at the moment it was done and all the facts at that time. Hindsight will tell a different story perhaps. KP fulfills a HOF career and we falter it will look bad. KP gets max money then seemingly is never healthy until he is forced to retire, becomes a drug king pin in a third world country and dropped from a helicopter for his arrogance by Janis who is the real “Brains” of the organization........well then we can lay praise on what a good trade it was!!!!

I like what the knicks are doing. As for Sam Presti, has his cred been tarnished? He drafted three MVP’s who could not co-exist and kept one. Harden was traded for far less than what he turned into and KP walked out with no compensation. The lone player he kept, a MVP double triple what ever machine does not make others better. He now has to dump Steve Adams to keep them from tax hell and the fracking profits of OKC are dwindling. OKC had the best base of talent. Shyt happens. Presti the genius fell like many other good ones to law of averages. This shyt is hard and after a few great wins he missed on a few.

Which Presti do you want? Circumstances play a huge role. Consider them before you lay blame or praise.

What do you mean by taken the best of what Phil was doing?

Don’t trade picks for short term fixes!!!!!!
I’m not saying to never trade picks, just not to starphuch and keep a fan base occupied.
and........build a culture.

We had to take a detour. PHil wanted Kerr. He was premature it’s Fisher. The concept was good.
Fiz had 8 years in Miami with Riles and Spro. They have a culture down there. Not saying I like all the results of the last few years, but they have a steady coaching presence even on the bench. Phil’s triangle culture not sustainable and Rambis was not the guy we had hoped. Phil was a good idea that did not work out for many reasons.

To me Fiz is his own man. He is young, personable and reputation of being a players coach. Memphis was already a veteran team with a structure in place. Bad fit for him and the team obviously. Knicks are a clean canvas to build on. Look, its not feasible to replicate what Pop did or Riles did, but you bring in good young bright people and commit to a goal. I think Mills, Perry and Fiz are bright people with good reputations. It might not work, but one year into this is far from fair to call it a failure.

A healthy Durant I think we were in the conversation. Same with Kyrie. We might be with Kawhi. “I the conversation” is a small consultation prize if you don’t sign one, but for once its more than just our money that is bringing us into the fold. We have a stable of young players with potential and a desirable coach.

CrushAlot
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6/22/2019  1:21 PM
The first pick Phil could have traded was the 2018. He did trade 31 this year for the LeBron stopper. Would have been great vet to have that.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
GustavBahler
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6/22/2019  1:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/22/2019  1:58 PM
Have faith in Perry. If Mills had installed someone from inside the organization, someone who had been with the Knicks through all the losing. I wouldn't have faith in Mills or the franchise.

As I said when it was first announced, it was an inspired hire by Mills. His strength is more as an exec than a bball guy. Mills had the good sense of finding the best bball guy he could, without going for the big name. Which was smart, considering.

As long as Mills is running the team in partnership with Perry, not a backseat driver, believe patience will pay off. Do believe this will be an exciting team to watch at times. Some growing pains are to be expected of a young team. Unlike last season, this one will know each other from camp on, so I expect progress.

blkexec
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6/22/2019  2:02 PM
Knixkik wrote:Mills has been part of the problem in the past but I think there’s value in seeing everything that went wrong over the years and being committed to doing it right now that he’s completely in charge.

Exactly.....keeping Mills around is a win win for Dolan and the FO.

Having Mills eyes and ears open allows Dolan to take a back seat. Dolan trust Mills which is why hes out of the public eye.

Mills is also around to make sure we dont repeat history, since he was part of the problem....he can now be part of the solution....with his lessons learned mentality and management.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
Uptown
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6/22/2019  3:27 PM
GustavBahler wrote:Have faith in Perry. If Mills had installed someone from inside the organization, someone who had been with the Knicks through all the losing. I wouldn't have faith in Mills or the franchise.

As I said when it was first announced, it was an inspired hire by Mills. His strength is more as an exec than a bball guy. Mills had the good sense of finding the best bball guy he could, without going for the big name. Which was smart, considering.

As long as Mills is running the team in partnership with Perry, not a backseat driver, believe patience will pay off. Do believe this will be an exciting team to watch at times. Some growing pains are to be expected of a young team. Unlike last season, this one will know each other from camp on, so I expect progress.

+100

Uptown
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6/22/2019  3:27 PM
blkexec wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Mills has been part of the problem in the past but I think there’s value in seeing everything that went wrong over the years and being committed to doing it right now that he’s completely in charge.

Exactly.....keeping Mills around is a win win for Dolan and the FO.

Having Mills eyes and ears open allows Dolan to take a back seat. Dolan trust Mills which is why hes out of the public eye.

Mills is also around to make sure we dont repeat history, since he was part of the problem....he can now be part of the solution....with his lessons learned mentality and management.

Good post

90sKnicks
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6/22/2019  4:19 PM
Mills and Perry come across to me as Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. Whenever two people need to do the job of one person that shows neither is qualified to the job alone.

Both do seem like nice guys and as long as they don't trade first round draft picks ever and don't give max contracts to second and third tier free agents (i.e. kyrie, Middleton, Kemba, Russell, butler, Harris, Randell, horford) then the Knicks will be fine and Mills/Perry will eventually look like geniuses.

Other than for first team All NBA players, no free agent should ever be given more than a 2 year deal (preferably overpay to get them on a 1 year), build your core by getting 50% of your 1st round picks right, and hire a good coach. That's all we need from them.

blkexec
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6/22/2019  4:31 PM
90sKnicks wrote:Mills and Perry come across to me as Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. Whenever two people need to do the job of one person that shows neither is qualified to the job alone.

Both do seem like nice guys and as long as they don't trade first round draft picks ever and don't give max contracts to second and third tier free agents (i.e. kyrie, Middleton, Kemba, Russell, butler, Harris, Randell, horford) then the Knicks will be fine and Mills/Perry will eventually look like geniuses.

Other than for first team All NBA players, no free agent should ever be given more than a 2 year deal (preferably overpay to get them on a 1 year), build your core by getting 50% of your 1st round picks right, and hire a good coach. That's all we need from them.

In the past, we've always had 1 person in that position....How did that turn out? This is NY..the mecca....we havent been anything for over 20 years. We finally look like we're heading in the right direction. I guess 2 people driving is the solution, not the problem.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
Nalod
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6/22/2019  4:39 PM
Team presidents were usually non factors regarding public relations and were in the back ground. Seems now the league as it grows and the financials are large it gets complicated. Just look at the problem Lakers had without a cap dude. My take is Mills was the financial guy and the Phil was really more GM on the basketball side but had final say on everything.
Remember, President over sees the everything. The finance, the plan, the travel, the medical, media, etc etc. Department heads report to him. Look up FO line up on the knicks page. you get a better understanding on the vast undertaking to run a team and the personal. GM got a lot on his plate too!!!

So the whole "faith thing" might be a worthwhile to press a few buttons and look it up.

arkrud
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6/22/2019  5:12 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/22/2019  5:13 PM
ekstarks94 wrote:
Cartman718 wrote:He's letting Perry do his job. That gives me faith in him. He invited a draftee to dinner and watch nba finals with him. That gives me faith in him. He's committed to build the right way and has a compadre in Perry with the same sentiment. That gives me faith in him. and He's managed to convince Doland to put an all black front office together between him, Perry, Fiz, Craig Robinson. That gives me faith in him. I was a bit mad at the THJr signing, but have forgiven him because of what has happened since.

We are talking about a sport where the majority of the players are of African descent and the Knicks are the only FO to represent that right. Yes...that does give me faith in him.

+ infinity

I would agree that unity in close group of people with common goal is important.
In our age and time when unlike people are getting suspicious of each other having a mono-ethnic group is a positive aspect for mutual undisputed respect.
It also a huge responsibility to do it right in the face of naysayers.
That's why while not being African American I have faith in this group.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
knicks1248
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6/22/2019  7:12 PM
blkexec wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Mills has been part of the problem in the past but I think there’s value in seeing everything that went wrong over the years and being committed to doing it right now that he’s completely in charge.

Exactly.....keeping Mills around is a win win for Dolan and the FO.

Having Mills eyes and ears open allows Dolan to take a back seat. Dolan trust Mills which is why hes out of the public eye.

Mills is also around to make sure we dont repeat history, since he was part of the problem....he can now be part of the solution....with his lessons learned mentality and management.

If you have 70 million and a slew of top tier fa and you can't nab 1 or 2, then you suck as a FO.

All this BS talk about "stars wanting to be here in NY" and they are not trading for players that already want to come via FA.

He sold that to the fans and he sold it to DOLAN who goes public with the same rant on ESPN.

Now there's talk about not get anyone, and a possibility of going to bat with the same bS plan as last season..

Don't forget I T was just as close to Dolan as mill is, and he finally had enough of him. You can only lose for so long before your fired.

ES
Allanfan20
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6/22/2019  7:54 PM
The only real bad thing he did was give Timmy that contract. Good thing he hired Scott soon after. I think he learned a lot from him. Anyway...

We had a poster here years ago who claimed he worked in the NBA offices in the past. He apoke about how Mills and Anucha Sanders were super highly regarded within’ the NBA community. At least on the business side. His image got really tainted when he worked in those Dolan/Layden and Dolan/Isiah eras. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t have the ability to change his image. We may still suck as a team but it’s seemingly a different time now.

Now we just need Dolan to stop going to games to avoid any more stupid incidents.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
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6/22/2019  9:36 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/22/2019  9:37 PM
90sKnicks wrote:Mills and Perry come across to me as Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. Whenever two people need to do the job of one person that shows neither is qualified to the job alone.

Both do seem like nice guys and as long as they don't trade first round draft picks ever and don't give max contracts to second and third tier free agents (i.e. kyrie, Middleton, Kemba, Russell, butler, Harris, Randell, horford) then the Knicks will be fine and Mills/Perry will eventually look like geniuses.

Other than for first team All NBA players, no free agent should ever be given more than a 2 year deal (preferably overpay to get them on a 1 year), build your core by getting 50% of your 1st round picks right, and hire a good coach. That's all we need from them.

Like Grunfeld and Checketts? The duo that led us to 2 finals appearances and Atlantic division titles in the 90s?

CrushAlot
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6/22/2019  9:59 PM
90sKnicks wrote:Mills and Perry come across to me as Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. Whenever two people need to do the job of one person that shows neither is qualified to the job alone.

Both do seem like nice guys and as long as they don't trade first round draft picks ever and don't give max contracts to second and third tier free agents (i.e. kyrie, Middleton, Kemba, Russell, butler, Harris, Randell, horford) then the Knicks will be fine and Mills/Perry will eventually look like geniuses.

Other than for first team All NBA players, no free agent should ever be given more than a 2 year deal (preferably overpay to get them on a 1 year), build your core by getting 50% of your 1st round picks right, and hire a good coach. That's all we need from them.

Most organizations have a president and a gm. I think Mills/Perry are on the same page, have the same vision and are working towards a common goal. They also have a coach on the same page that they support. It isn't typical for the Knicks to have a functional situation but thats what they have. Maybe hearing a united voice with a competent message has been missing from this franchise for so long you are mistaking it for something it isn't.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Why do people have any faith in Mills?

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