And yes, big difference between a floor of 5th vs 7th. We want to maximize our odds in every way possible, especially for what people are saying is an extremely shallow draft.

Sambakick wrote:We need some wins.

Losing more games win't help attract Free Agents... it only helps "the odds"

If you want more wins, then you need more talent. Talent can only come from three sources - The draft OR free agency OR trades

The Knicks have nothing of value that anyone wants in trade except for things that the Knicks want to keep. Dead end. Free agency in the modern era, how many impact free agents have been signed to new teams? ( I mean guys who will change the trajectory of your franchise) Shaq. Nash. Durant. LBJ. A small handful out of a gaggle of free agents across decades. ( Guys can feel free not to try to include sign and trades in this discussion, that's an entirely different situation against the CBA several versions ago) So the Knicks won't get Tier 1/Tier 2/Tier 3 free agents. Dead end.

Players and coaches are trying to win games. They are fighting for their jobs.

If the Knicks aren't winning, it's because they don't have enough talent. It's that simple.

You are taking something outrageously simple and making it uber ****ing complicated.

The next argument is tanking has helped how many teams? This is true. It's a ****ing crapshoot. But what other choice is there?

It's slim to no chance versus no chance at all. That too is simple as ****.

The Knicks CAN'T WIN. They don't have enough talent. Trading away some veterans guts them even more.

You want the Knicks to get something they are trying to get and fail at getting. Let me repeat this - THE COACHES AND PLAYERS STILL THERE ARE TRYING TO WIN TO SECURE/SAVE THEIR OWN JOBS.

What do you think is going on? Some player is saying, dude, let's lose on purpose and be OK with this as I head in FA and will only make myself look worse to get a new contract! GENIUS MOVE!

The only way any of your narrative makes sense is if the coaches and remaining players got together and said - FUCK IT, WHO CARES IF MY KIDS EAT OR NOT. LET THEM BITCHES STARVE. BECAUSE I'M GOING TO LOSE ON PURPOSE TO DRAFT MY REPLACEMENT! FUCK ANY SENSE OF COMPETITIVE SPIRIT AND DIGNITY I HAVE!

NYKBocker wrote:Nope. I want to secure that last place. Keep on tanking. There is no reward for anymore wins until we secure that last place spot.

I totally understand how you feel but we have to look at the big picture here. There are only 26 games left in basically 2 months. Rooting for a couple of wins is basically asking to sacrifice a possible franchise player for a couple of nights of meangingless satisfaction. How many players did we lose out on as a result of doing that? Karl-Anthony Towns? Steph Curry? Russel Westbrook?

Yes, tanking sucks gigantic humpback whale balls. Yes, the league needs to make a completely different format even though they are at least making the losing teams sweat a lot now. With that said, tanking is still the way if your franchise is in the dumps so we have no choise but to take this route. HOPEFULLY this time next year, we’ll all have a get together at MSG or some crappy dive bar or Clydes Wine and Dine rooting on the Knicks duking out a win over the 76ers for the top seed in the EC.

Knixkik wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Nope. I want to secure that last place. Keep on tanking. There is no reward for anymore wins until we secure that last place spot.

Even if we win a few games it still won't change the 14% chance at #1 overall. I hate mock drafts and all that stuff this time of year because it all has us at #1 and getting Zion, and the fact is the chances are slim we actually end up with him. Long-term i'm planning more for someone like Reddish to stay conservative. I think we have a much better chance at landing the 2 big free agents than the #1 pick. We need some wins for Knox's development especially. I would like to see him just take over 1 or 2 games that lead to victories to give him that boost in development. He is circling the drain in terms of development as a low percentage volume scorer and while that is still just fine at 19 years old, he can turn the corner with a couple of big games that lead to wins. To me his development will always be more important than landing the #1 pick. I see big upside in Knox and Robinson (Robinson showing it now) and even if the big free agents come, these guys will be the difference in a good playoff team and a contender in a couple of years.

Don't worry we will win a couple just because of probability.
Being bad we still have some assortment of NBA players.
Once in a while they will play better at the same time and so we will win some game or two.
This true about other tankers zo.
If we will win 15-16 games we will still be 1st in lottery.
And this what I reasonably expect.

Be careful what you root for.

Losing breeds more losing, just like rats breed rats. The Hinkie plan is a ball of chocolate covered ****. The Sicksers could just as easily have hit paydirt on two out of 15 lottery picks without tanking.

The league is eventually just going to slowly evolve back to the Ewing lottery format. Encouraging half a league's worth of **** teams to to **** on themselves for 82 games just isn't good for business.

Actually, I'd like to see teams that barely make the playoffs get the best chances in the draft. Let the **** teams remain ****. Fuck the whole rewarding **** with ping pong balls. Let's see how front offices that are trying to SECURE/SAVE THEIR JOBS manage to do everything they can to win. Let them approach their NEED TO SURVIVE AND FEED THEIR KIDS the same way MJ approached practice. Kill off everything and anything that keeps you from winning.

Sambakick wrote:We need some wins. This losing is getting old. Franchise record for consecutive losses.

This will be spoken about on the news cycle the next couple days... we will be the butt of more jokes.

Tanking when there's no KP in the wings doesn't attract Free Agents.

It was fine to root for the tank when we knew that KP was our saviour and he was unhealthy.

He is gone now.

If no free agents come... then this is our team and they need to develop a winning mindset.

Losing more games win't help attract Free Agents... it only helps "the odds"

Well... odds are we aint crawling out of the bottom three. Even if we get a few feel good Ws.

Add if we are so unlucky to be in the bottom three but pick 7th or 6th instead of 5th ... does it really matter?

Maybe losing isn't attractive to FA, but drafting Zion certainly would be...and losing will slightly increase THOSE odds, making it therefore a worthy outcome. In truth, our guys have been competing while losing. I like what I'm seeing. It's a building block year, an evaluation year, not a collect wins year. We NEED to tank while also developing and evaluating what we have for the turnaround. Free agents understand all of this. They're not confused. And they will certainly want a rookie like Zion or Barrett on their new team.

knicks1248 wrote:The real rebuild starts with the next FO...

Our pick will go to the pelicans, along with every single asset for AD.

Why teach the young players how to play smart, build confidence, develop a winning culture, build chemistry, or a system now that FA can look at and say, yeah that's a good fit.

We are again accidently tanking at a time you can have the worst record and wind up with the 5th pick in a super weak draft.

we don't have a real plan, because we don't have a single untouchable player..IMO

The rebuild has started. It is not being televised.
We are not winning but we can't with how this roster was constructed. We are down to the studs now. We are paying for years of neglect. There was some stuff written today with used the word "Pragmatic".
If you look it up you won't see your picture anywhere associated with your emotional open concept rants that are little more than tantrum like whining.
Winning rarely attracts free agents. GSW getting Durant was an anomaly. Opportunity to win is what attracts Free agents. Im guessing one thing in common is they see themselves as part of the solution. If you project that you understand what makes them all tick your delusional. Its obvious few will want to play for a shyt team with no hope.
If this is how you view the Knicks the so be it. But for the first time in a long time writers recognize the opportunity as it is. Not dreamed.
Nobody is holding a gun to you and making you accept a thing.

knicks1248 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The real rebuild starts with the next FO...

Our pick will go to the pelicans, along with every single asset for AD.

Why teach the young players how to play smart, build confidence, develop a winning culture, build chemistry, or a system now that FA can look at and say, yeah that's a good fit.

We are again accidently tanking at a time you can have the worst record and wind up with the 5th pick in a super weak draft.

we don't have a real plan, because we don't have a single untouchable player..IMO

The rebuild has started. It is not being televised.
We are not winning but we can't with how this roster was constructed. We are down to the studs now. We are paying for years of neglect. There was some stuff written today with used the word "Pragmatic".
If you look it up you won't see your picture anywhere associated with your emotional open concept rants that are little more than tantrum like whining.
Winning rarely attracts free agents. GSW getting Durant was an anomaly. Opportunity to win is what attracts Free agents. Im guessing one thing in common is they see themselves as part of the solution. If you project that you understand what makes them all tick your delusional. Its obvious few will want to play for a shyt team with no hope.
If this is how you view the Knicks the so be it. But for the first time in a long time writers recognize the opportunity as it is. Not dreamed.
Nobody is holding a gun to you and making you accept a thing.

you sound ridiculous..

The winning without feeling that you are the main reason for it means nothing.
It brings no satisfaction. It brings money but max players already have max money no matter what so this motivation is out of the picture.
Fans are just emotional vampires who feed on winning of the team they root for.
Winning is fans motivation not players. For top players to be a REASON for winning is the end of all means.