Running a lot of plays is a big reason why Dotson and Frank have flourished and one of the reasons they were drafted by our previous Prez. As this has allowed them to score within the flow of a structure offense. The combination of players who dig in on defense who can efficiently score within the flow of the game is ideal(Granted Frank, Dotson, Hardaway all shot low 40S vs Nets. They missed some very very good looks). Fizz is preaching ball movement non stop. A lot of players are touching the ball within the plays even if its only to give the ball back in a hand off for a pick and roll action.

Hardaway while not an ideal fit due to the lack of length. Offensively it works because even though he take some bad shots, he is very quick with his decisions. Between Frank, Dotson, Hardaway they don't spend to much time iso dribbling.

Frank's pull up game off the pick can become something really special. Especially when he is able to work it in towards the FT line range.

newyorknewyork wrote:Fizz basically played his best 2-way players. Knicks run a lot of plays with a PG that focuses on running plays.

Running a lot of plays is a big reason why Dotson and Frank have flourished and one of the reasons they were drafted by our previous Prez. As this has allowed them to score within the flow of a structure offense. The combination of players who dig in on defense who can efficiently score within the flow of the game is ideal(Granted Frank, Dotson, Hardaway all shot low 40S vs Nets. They missed some very very good looks). Fizz is preaching ball movement non stop. A lot of players are touching the ball within the plays even if its only to give the ball back in a hand off for a pick and roll action.

Hardaway while not an ideal fit due to the lack of length. Offensively it works because even though he take some bad shots, he is very quick with his decisions. Between Frank, Dotson, Hardaway they don't spend to much time iso dribbling.

Frank's pull up game off the pick can become something really special. Especially when he is able to work it in towards the FT line range.

the flow is very noticeable. When Burke and Trier come in you can see it slow a bit. Im not saying iso ball is bad and these guys don't have the goods to make it work. Seems Burke is getting pushed out in this flow by Trier who can create.
IsoZoe gets time to work on his game. He has NBA offensive skills but passing and Defense matter. He will have time to improve. I can still see him in the Gleague a bit until Baker is made gone.

We are seeing the future in its raw form. Not known is Fiz happy with Frank. By that, is he his ideal primary ball handler? While we see Vonleh bringing the ball up with "everyone brings it-no position", its obvious frank is the "Pg". Does he want a "Kyrie" type or someone that moves the ball? I realize its not that obvious as you sometimes adapt to what you have. Mitch might start but is limited for now. Enes despite his stats might not be in the long view of the team. Guy can play, but is that what fiz wants?
KP changes the whole flow of the game when he returns.

I'm also tired of seeing the vets get all the minutes, due to political reasons like Kanters contract year. Either there's a bigger strategy I'm not aware of, benching Kanter whos one of the most popular enforcers on the team, is a huge risk of losing him. But Kanter in my opinion, is a bench player on a good team. Durant is taller than Kanter, which is crazy when you think about it. I didn't realize it until the GS game.

blkexec wrote:Playing these youngsters and winning, also shows how bad the vets are, as a team. Money Mitch is a G league player getting starter minutes. That's the best experience to have. I bet if he went to the G league now, he would destroy them, just based on his few games of experience and confidence.

I'm also tired of seeing the vets get all the minutes, due to political reasons like Kanters contract year. Either there's a bigger strategy I'm not aware of, benching Kanter whos one of the most popular enforcers on the team, is a huge risk of losing him. But Kanter in my opinion, is a bench player on a good team. Durant is taller than Kanter, which is crazy when you think about it. I didn't realize it until the GS game.

Benching tells us and him he might be moving on anyway. Moving $Mitch to starter is not a minutes thing but get him acclimated and see how he reacts. He will get schooled by the quality big guys but that's OK, its how progress happens. I like Enes but we have a different timeline and his cap space might be used more productively.

There is a sort of law of the jungle that you take care of the vets and they get opportunity to play. If they are not getting the job done or team not winning then you replace them with potential. Its theirs to lose. Fiz seems to be giving his guys a chance: Lance and Enes but look at the record. It speaks for itself.
$mitch will miss games as he thickens and Enes will get plenty of playing time.

newyorknewyork wrote:If Knox shows he can defend well then placing him at SF with Timmy at 2 would work well. If Knox doesn't show he can defend well then Dotson and Knox (If Knox develops offensively like we believe he will) would be the better tandem. Maybe not nessesarily right away but down the road. Or Knox would have to play more PF with a Dotson type player at F who offers more size and length.

It would be up to Fizz to get KP to buy in. But at the same time he is more of a threar than Vonleh with those same touches. And since everyone is touching the ball frequently. KP will get more than enough looks.

But I agree, this thread is only based off the last 2 games. We will see what unfolds tonight.

I'm intrigued by this too. A week back or so someone posted some defensive stats for THJ that surprised me (i.e., how poor they were). I'm seeing the effort. My suspicion is he was simply being abused by some of the bigger stronger SF types. WOndering how his numbers would morph if he were playing 2 where his extra length buys him some extra space/cushion

arkrud wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:Playing these youngsters and winning, also shows how bad the vets are, as a team. Money Mitch is a G league player getting starter minutes. That's the best experience to have. I bet if he went to the G league now, he would destroy them, just based on his few games of experience and confidence.

I'm also tired of seeing the vets get all the minutes, due to political reasons like Kanters contract year. Either there's a bigger strategy I'm not aware of, benching Kanter whos one of the most popular enforcers on the team, is a huge risk of losing him. But Kanter in my opinion, is a bench player on a good team. Durant is taller than Kanter, which is crazy when you think about it. I didn't realize it until the GS game.

Benching Kanter this early in the season, after one bad game, was a questionable move because the Knicks already have a bad rep when it comes to the way they treat their people. Be it coaches or players.

Dont believe Fizdale wants a rep as a frontrunner. A guy who is willing to push aside a proven vet, who is still producing at a high level. For the next shiny object.

Kanter need to humble a bit. He is not all-star by any stretch.
Being a best big on really bad team means nothing. Numbers will come automatically.
He needs to play way better defense and stretch the court at least a bit to have any consideration.
And he is not even close to doing this. I doubt he can.
He need to put his expectations in order and benching should help him in long run to stay in himself.

After one bad game against an elite big, when he's on his game. Sure lets bench everyone after one bad game. Because they need to be humbled. And they arent as good as they think they are. Barf.

arkrud wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

arkrud wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:Playing these youngsters and winning, also shows how bad the vets are, as a team. Money Mitch is a G league player getting starter minutes. That's the best experience to have. I bet if he went to the G league now, he would destroy them, just based on his few games of experience and confidence.

I'm also tired of seeing the vets get all the minutes, due to political reasons like Kanters contract year. Either there's a bigger strategy I'm not aware of, benching Kanter whos one of the most popular enforcers on the team, is a huge risk of losing him. But Kanter in my opinion, is a bench player on a good team. Durant is taller than Kanter, which is crazy when you think about it. I didn't realize it until the GS game.

Benching Kanter this early in the season, after one bad game, was a questionable move because the Knicks already have a bad rep when it comes to the way they treat their people. Be it coaches or players.

Dont believe Fizdale wants a rep as a frontrunner. A guy who is willing to push aside a proven vet, who is still producing at a high level. For the next shiny object.

Kanter need to humble a bit. He is not all-star by any stretch.
Being a best big on really bad team means nothing. Numbers will come automatically.
He needs to play way better defense and stretch the court at least a bit to have any consideration.
And he is not even close to doing this. I doubt he can.
He need to put his expectations in order and benching should help him in long run to stay in himself.

After one bad game against an elite big, when he's on his game. Sure lets bench everyone after one bad game. Because they need to be humbled. And they arent as good as they think they are. Barf.

This is not one game. You can take any game last year or this.
He redounds and can finish around the basket. That's it.
He is at best not hurting the team and he cannot play in the 4th.
Typical solid backup in todays NBA.
If he want to stay for 8-10 mils per it will be fine and only if no better option available.

Try looking at his box score some time, try looking how he abuses other bigs, and often gets the best of them. Kanter's D has been better. He has been passing better since the start of the season. Came back in even better shape. Is arguably the hardest worker on the floor. Has taken hard hits, without missing games. Has been a vocal leader, and a culture changing player.

You bench a player like that, just a few games into the season. After just one bad game (which happens to be vs coach's old team) you arent doing your rep as a coach any favors.

Right after you were let go from another team for the same problem.

Knickoftime wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Kanter's D has been better.

If you're relying on the eye test, which I sort of assume you are because metrics doesn't back this up, I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

GustavBahler wrote:

arkrud wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:Playing these youngsters and winning, also shows how bad the vets are, as a team. Money Mitch is a G league player getting starter minutes. That's the best experience to have. I bet if he went to the G league now, he would destroy them, just based on his few games of experience and confidence.

I'm also tired of seeing the vets get all the minutes, due to political reasons like Kanters contract year. Either there's a bigger strategy I'm not aware of, benching Kanter whos one of the most popular enforcers on the team, is a huge risk of losing him. But Kanter in my opinion, is a bench player on a good team. Durant is taller than Kanter, which is crazy when you think about it. I didn't realize it until the GS game.

Benching Kanter this early in the season, after one bad game, was a questionable move because the Knicks already have a bad rep when it comes to the way they treat their people. Be it coaches or players.

Dont believe Fizdale wants a rep as a frontrunner. A guy who is willing to push aside a proven vet, who is still producing at a high level. For the next shiny object.

Kanter need to humble a bit. He is not all-star by any stretch.
Being a best big on really bad team means nothing. Numbers will come automatically.
He needs to play way better defense and stretch the court at least a bit to have any consideration.
And he is not even close to doing this. I doubt he can.
He need to put his expectations in order and benching should help him in long run to stay in himself.

After one bad game against an elite big, when he's on his game. Sure lets bench everyone after one bad game. Because they need to be humbled. And they arent as good as they think they are. Barf.

I didn't look at it as 1 bad game from Kanter, or even if Kater was the focus of the shift. Feel like the focus was about getting 2-way players out there, or maybe start with players who are more in tuned with what coaching staff wanted to do from a defensive position.

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

arkrud wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:Playing these youngsters and winning, also shows how bad the vets are, as a team. Money Mitch is a G league player getting starter minutes. That's the best experience to have. I bet if he went to the G league now, he would destroy them, just based on his few games of experience and confidence.

I'm also tired of seeing the vets get all the minutes, due to political reasons like Kanters contract year. Either there's a bigger strategy I'm not aware of, benching Kanter whos one of the most popular enforcers on the team, is a huge risk of losing him. But Kanter in my opinion, is a bench player on a good team. Durant is taller than Kanter, which is crazy when you think about it. I didn't realize it until the GS game.

Benching Kanter this early in the season, after one bad game, was a questionable move because the Knicks already have a bad rep when it comes to the way they treat their people. Be it coaches or players.

Dont believe Fizdale wants a rep as a frontrunner. A guy who is willing to push aside a proven vet, who is still producing at a high level. For the next shiny object.

Kanter need to humble a bit. He is not all-star by any stretch.
Being a best big on really bad team means nothing. Numbers will come automatically.
He needs to play way better defense and stretch the court at least a bit to have any consideration.
And he is not even close to doing this. I doubt he can.
He need to put his expectations in order and benching should help him in long run to stay in himself.

After one bad game against an elite big, when he's on his game. Sure lets bench everyone after one bad game. Because they need to be humbled. And they arent as good as they think they are. Barf.

I didn't look at it as 1 bad game from Kanter, or even if Kater was the focus of the shift. Feel like the focus was about getting 2-way players out there, or maybe start with players who are more in tuned with what coaching staff wanted to do from a defensive position.

Kanter's perimeter issues aside. He brings a more to the table than MitchRob does right now.

That should be enough of a reason for a team player, a seasoned vet like Kanter (still with plenty of game) to keep his job. Especially this early in the season.

Its about respect. In spite of what has been argued, Kanter didnt need to be humbled. He worked on what he was told to work on, and Fizdale praised his improved D.

One bad game (and that's really all it was) should'nt be enough for the bench.

I get wanting to ease Kanter out, if he isnt in their plans, even if I disagree. Its how Fizdale seems to be doing it. Its something I would expect at a big box store, not the Knicks. I dont get the urgency to plug MitchRob into the starting lineup. No issue at all about it happening at some point. Believe you have to also do it and show respect for a vet who has been arguably the hardest worker, and a positive influence.

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

arkrud wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

blkexec wrote:Playing these youngsters and winning, also shows how bad the vets are, as a team. Money Mitch is a G league player getting starter minutes. That's the best experience to have. I bet if he went to the G league now, he would destroy them, just based on his few games of experience and confidence.

I'm also tired of seeing the vets get all the minutes, due to political reasons like Kanters contract year. Either there's a bigger strategy I'm not aware of, benching Kanter whos one of the most popular enforcers on the team, is a huge risk of losing him. But Kanter in my opinion, is a bench player on a good team. Durant is taller than Kanter, which is crazy when you think about it. I didn't realize it until the GS game.

Benching Kanter this early in the season, after one bad game, was a questionable move because the Knicks already have a bad rep when it comes to the way they treat their people. Be it coaches or players.

Dont believe Fizdale wants a rep as a frontrunner. A guy who is willing to push aside a proven vet, who is still producing at a high level. For the next shiny object.

Kanter need to humble a bit. He is not all-star by any stretch.
Being a best big on really bad team means nothing. Numbers will come automatically.
He needs to play way better defense and stretch the court at least a bit to have any consideration.
And he is not even close to doing this. I doubt he can.
He need to put his expectations in order and benching should help him in long run to stay in himself.

After one bad game against an elite big, when he's on his game. Sure lets bench everyone after one bad game. Because they need to be humbled. And they arent as good as they think they are. Barf.

I didn't look at it as 1 bad game from Kanter, or even if Kater was the focus of the shift. Feel like the focus was about getting 2-way players out there, or maybe start with players who are more in tuned with what coaching staff wanted to do from a defensive position.

Kanter's perimeter issues aside. He brings a more to the table than MitchRob does right now.

That should be enough of a reason for a team player, a seasoned vet like Kanter (still with plenty of game) to keep his job. Especially this early in the season.

Its about respect. In spite of what has been argued, Kanter didnt need to be humbled. He worked on what he was told to work on, and Fizdale praised his improved D.

One bad game (and that's really all it was) should'nt be enough for the bench.

I get wanting to ease Kanter out, if he isnt in their plans, even if I disagree. Its how Fizdale seems to be doing it. Its something I would expect at a big box store, not the Knicks. I dont get the urgency to plug MitchRob into the starting lineup. No issue at all about it happening at some point. Believe you have to also do it and show respect for a vet who has been arguably the hardest worker, and a positive influence.

You keep reiterating 1 bad game; statistically speaking, point and rebounds, that may be the case.

But we don't know what the coach is asking of from the players. What the expectations are in terms of defense. What has been asked to of Kanter.

His defense is poor and continues to be poor. It is improved. Not sure that means it is good enough.

I personally don't think Kanter will be a starter on the team or even ON the team next year and would love for the young guys to continue to get prime starting minutes as appropriate. And I won't flinch when those young guys start or continue to get minutes even if it's not fully earned or deserved. Feel like the coach and staff understand that, player probably should too.

Frank, Dot, Knox, Trier, THJr, Mitch, Vonleh seem to be those guys.