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NYKBocker wrote:Butler for THJr and Mudiay or THJr and Burke.

That's the only thing I am sending their way.

but wait . . . we're saving thjr for klay . . .

Who was the last person that fit that description that forced their way here? And how did that end for us!

TheGame wrote:Unless they are willing to take back Tim Hardaway and don't want a first round pick I would pass. The most I would offer is Lee or Hardaway, a second round pick, and maybe one other young player not named Knox, Mitchell, Frank, or Burke.

Everyone here is a Yankees fan right?

No lost love for the Orioles or Peter Angelos? Angelos is pretty much hated by the rest of MLB. Now he got Adam Jones and bunch of other stuff in a gutting deal for Erik Bedard, but what happens with guys like him, who keeps offering lopsided deals or making his GMs do it is the other teams simply call them back way later. You can't not call someone back. No matter how much of a douchebag they are in their offers. But you can simply call them back a week later. Calling someone back a week later from front office to front office is one of the BIGGEST middle fingers you can give to someone else in professional sports.

An offer like yours would literally kill off all communication with that team as long as that non Knicks front office structure is in place.

This is why Phil Jackson hurt himself badly, on top of other things he did. He offered STAT, THJr and a first round pick for Kevin Love when Love was on the block. Minnesota politely said No and laughed it off in private. It's just "Phil being Phil" You do that old men. Laugh it off a little. Good one Phil. But Phil kept doing it. Kept pushing it. Word got out. Because PEOPLE TALK. Then Phil Jackson couldn't answer some basic questions when asked. Because he had no background in scouting, the cap, how to deal with agents, how to deal with brands, how to deal with other owners from a front office position. So Phil stopped talking to people to avoid not knowing what to say. So there you have it, Phil Jackson being avoided and Jackson avoiding other people. Which is how we all got the Noah/Rose crap. Phil knew the GM ( Paxton) and the agent (BJ Armstrong) and had a history with the franchise. It was a trade that happened in part because no one else would talk to him and he wouldn't talk to many others. WHAT DID ANYONE THINK WOULD HAPPEN WHEN YOU PUSH A 70 YEAR OLD WITH NO FRONT OFFICE EXPERIENCE INTO SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

If you don't actually apply the "Mirror Test" in professional sports, no one will ever talk to you again.

Butler plays hard as hell. Always. Constant throttle. TWolves will want Kanter, Knox and a first unprotected. They'll take Lee also if they can dump Dieng. In any deal they'll want Kanter first and foremost because he's expiring. For that reason, Lee and THJr are not desirable.

The value is in Butler's BIRD RIGHTS. If you want to build around a strong core of three elite players, you'll need the Bird Rights for at least two of them to make it work somewhat under the cap structure. Ideally you want the Bird Rights to every guy on your team.

TheGame wrote:We can get Butler this summer without giving up anything and he would not be one of my main targets. If Minny thinks it can get more, good for them but why would the Knicks offer picks for the guy. My offer is me really saying we would rather try to sign him in the offseason, which is exactly what we should have done with Melo.

The Knicks can sign him as a street free agent for just cap space WITHOUT his Bird Rights.

This would be feasible if the Knicks had a loaded roster and were stocked with tons of draft assets already and a very clean cap situation.

They don't.

Bird Rights are pretty important here. I'm not saying the TWolves will get a kings ransom here, but it changes some of the leverage points.

One outlying factor is apparently LBJ and Butler don't like each other, no matter what else is said in the press. LBJ is a generational player, but not really a true team player. He does distribute and he does run the offense, but he's not someone who can spearhead a true free flowing offense. Butler will get in peoples faces.

Personality wise, I love Butler. True outcome independent. He wants to win and if you want it just as bad, you are his best friend. If not, you are his worst enemy.

Larger issue is Karl Anthony Towns and his behavior is going to help trigger the next labor war. Non established guys like this holding their teams hostage is just a no go for the owners. You have to at least out of your rookie contract before you can take a team hostage.

Melo's trade was in a different CBA structure. Apples and oranges.

TheGame wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

TheGame wrote:Unless they are willing to take back Tim Hardaway and don't want a first round pick I would pass. The most I would offer is Lee or Hardaway, a second round pick, and maybe one other young player not named Knox, Mitchell, Frank, or Burke.

Everyone here is a Yankees fan right?

No lost love for the Orioles or Peter Angelos? Angelos is pretty much hated by the rest of MLB. Now he got Adam Jones and bunch of other stuff in a gutting deal for Erik Bedard, but what happens with guys like him, who keeps offering lopsided deals or making his GMs do it is the other teams simply call them back way later. You can't not call someone back. No matter how much of a douchebag they are in their offers. But you can simply call them back a week later. Calling someone back a week later from front office to front office is one of the BIGGEST middle fingers you can give to someone else in professional sports.

An offer like yours would literally kill off all communication with that team as long as that non Knicks front office structure is in place.

This is why Phil Jackson hurt himself badly, on top of other things he did. He offered STAT, THJr and a first round pick for Kevin Love when Love was on the block. Minnesota politely said No and laughed it off in private. It's just "Phil being Phil" You do that old men. Laugh it off a little. Good one Phil. But Phil kept doing it. Kept pushing it. Word got out. Because PEOPLE TALK. Then Phil Jackson couldn't answer some basic questions when asked. Because he had no background in scouting, the cap, how to deal with agents, how to deal with brands, how to deal with other owners from a front office position. So Phil stopped talking to people to avoid not knowing what to say. So there you have it, Phil Jackson being avoided and Jackson avoiding other people. Which is how we all got the Noah/Rose crap. Phil knew the GM ( Paxton) and the agent (BJ Armstrong) and had a history with the franchise. It was a trade that happened in part because no one else would talk to him and he wouldn't talk to many others. WHAT DID ANYONE THINK WOULD HAPPEN WHEN YOU PUSH A 70 YEAR OLD WITH NO FRONT OFFICE EXPERIENCE INTO SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

If you don't actually apply the "Mirror Test" in professional sports, no one will ever talk to you again.

Butler plays hard as hell. Always. Constant throttle. TWolves will want Kanter, Knox and a first unprotected. They'll take Lee also if they can dump Dieng. In any deal they'll want Kanter first and foremost because he's expiring. For that reason, Lee and THJr are not desirable.

The value is in Butler's BIRD RIGHTS. If you want to build around a strong core of three elite players, you'll need the Bird Rights for at least two of them to make it work somewhat under the cap structure. Ideally you want the Bird Rights to every guy on your team.

We can get Butler this summer without giving up anything and he would not be one of my main targets. If Minny thinks it can get more, good for them but why would the Knicks offer picks for the guy. My offer is me really saying we would rather try to sign him in the offseason, which is exactly what we should have done with Melo. We are not one player away from a championship. Our young guys need another year or two of seasoning. So why trade the farm for Butler, who is 29.

Yeah this seems like the melo scenario all over again, you got a all star in his prime requesting a trade to the knicks or Nets,and if the Nets pony up, they have a leg up on Kyrie,