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this team has no chance at being seriously competitive in the atlantic?
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BRIGGS
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9/13/2004  9:11 PM
C-Rafeal Arajup 6-11 290
PF -Chris Bosh 7-0 240
SF D Marshall 6-9 230
SG Vince Carter 6-6 230
PG Jalen Rose 6-8 220
C/ PF Jerome Moiso 6-10 235
F Mo Peterson 6-7 210
G Al Williams 6-5 190
G Rafer Alston 6-2 185

RIP Crushalot😞
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Caseloads
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9/13/2004  9:14 PM
why cant they be?
teslawlo
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9/13/2004  10:48 PM
C-Rafeal Arajup 6-11 290
PF -Chris Bosh 7-0 240
SF D Marshall 6-9 230
SG Vince Carter 6-6 230
PG Jalen Rose 6-8 220
C/ PF Jerome Moiso 6-10 235
F Mo Peterson 6-7 210
G Al Williams 6-5 190
G Rafer Alston 6-2 185

= serious problems in raptors land. Araujo has no ups and I do not believe he will be that good at all even when fully developed. bosh had a bad showing at SL but I guess he will become pretty good this year. Marshall will not have a stellar year like last year. He's on the wrong side of 30, and if he's play SF he will be a liability against fast SF's on defense. Carter is always injured, rose is injured too. moiso = scrub, peterson = genital herpes, williams + alston = overpaid.
next?
http://allknicks.com
fishmike
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9/14/2004  9:15 AM
Briggs... I sense a Raptors fettish with you. Just because your kid is hitting the Barney stage doesnt mean all purple dinos are good.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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9/14/2004  9:35 AM
http://www.hoopshype.com/previews/toronto.htm

I thought this was pretty fair
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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9/14/2004  11:29 AM
Bosh can be a monster in the making. He is still very young and could break out soon. Maybe not KG quite yet, but he still has great upside.

I think the east is improved, as are the knicks. But to what degree remains to be seen.
fishmike
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9/14/2004  12:07 PM
Bosh is a wonderfull player and prospect, but he's the only guy on that team worth building anything around.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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9/14/2004  12:30 PM
Toronto is flawed and not worth worrying about. Why flawed? Rose is old and has no true position. Alvin is old and cranky. Vince is an injury waiting to happen and plays no defense and never goes inside unless he feels like it, Bosh is too skinny still, Donyell is old and Arajuo is green. I'm more worried about Boston and Philly.

Boston

Payton, Delonte
Pierce
Ricky Davis
Al Jefferson
Blount, Lafrenz

Philly

Iverson, Salmons
Green, Korver
Andre, Glenn (trade bait)
Kenny T, Corliss
Sammy D, Skinner

Philly and Boston will be hot on our tail for the division all year and may just gel better than us. I have to say I like their coaches a hell of a lot more than our coaches. We shall see.
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fishmike
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9/14/2004  1:00 PM
not green enough... aroujo is the same age as Jamal Crawford.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
toodarkmark
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9/14/2004  1:04 PM
The more I look at Boston, the more I think theyre going to have a good year. But I do feel that Danny Ainge has some sort of weird plan. I think it would be exciting if Boston and NY are fighting out for the Atlantic Division title at the end of the season, even if they both end up winning only 48 games.

I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
crzymdups
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9/14/2004  1:50 PM
Posted by toodarkmark:

The more I look at Boston, the more I think theyre going to have a good year. But I do feel that Danny Ainge has some sort of weird plan. I think it would be exciting if Boston and NY are fighting out for the Atlantic Division title at the end of the season, even if they both end up winning only 48 games.

I could see that, but more like 45 wins a piece.

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MaTT4281
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9/14/2004  3:22 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Briggs... I sense a Raptors fettish with you. Just because your kid is hitting the Barney stage doesnt mean all purple dinos are good.

LOL. I still can't believe I used to watch that show.

Back to the topic. Even if Vince stays healthy, I still don't see Toronto ending up as good as Philly or Boston. (Or us, but that goes without saying ). Vince just hasn't really seemed like a team leader to me. I seriously think they should trade to trade Vince for some depth, and some picks, and focus their team on Bosh.

And yes, I would LOVE to see a rekindled Boston-Knicks rivalry in this division.
BRIGGS
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9/14/2004  3:24 PM
If Rose and Marshall are old, what about KT H2O[both starters???] Penny Hardaway and Vin Baker --- two starters[maybe 3] and 2 core rotation players who are older and slower than the guys you mentioned. that doesnt make any sense--i think sometimes people are oblivious to reality. We can criticize another team, yet as in this case--we are worse off.

By the way I bet Arajuo is a tougher player than anyone on the Knicks. You have to see him play before making comments like he's green. Believe me is far from green--he is probably the 2nd strongest player in the league other than Shaq in terms of body strength and he is pitbull mean-like Oakley.
RIP Crushalot😞
crzymdups
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9/14/2004  3:41 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

If Rose and Marshall are old, what about KT H2O[both starters???] Penny Hardaway and Vin Baker --- two starters[maybe 3] and 2 core rotation players who are older and slower than the guys you mentioned. that doesnt make any sense--i think sometimes people are oblivious to reality. We can criticize another team, yet as in this case--we are worse off.

By the way I bet Arajuo is a tougher player than anyone on the Knicks. You have to see him play before making comments like he's green. Believe me is far from green--he is probably the 2nd strongest player in the league other than Shaq in terms of body strength and he is pitbull mean-like Oakley.

I saw him play twice and wasn't impressed, maybe I saw bad games.

But as for your arguments about Rose and Marshall - the Knicks have Crawford and Sweetney coming off the bench while the Raptors don't have any talented replacements for those two. They have Bosh, but that's it. They're also counting on Alston to start, which he's never done well. Alvin Williams wants out, Vince supposedly wants out, they have a questionable coaching staff and front office, and a small, uninterested fan base.

I think the Raptors are in much worse shape than the Knicks. A wounded Knicks team beat the Raptors several times after Marbury came over last year. I seem to remember Nazr dropping 20 and 18 in Toronto. Marbury is a better player than Vince Carter at this point. Marbury's supporting cast is better, more athletic, more diverse and deeper. The Knicks are better than the Raptors. The Raptors will fight the Nets for fifth place in the division.

Also, I'd love to know how Penny or Baker would start with Kurt and Allan. Think Lenny might want to start Nazr, Sweetney, Tim Thomas or Jamal ahead of Penny and Baker? Briggs, I think this time you are degrading what you are all too familiar with.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 09/14/2004 15:43:47]
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BRIGGS
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9/14/2004  3:52 PM
I never said they were a better team than the knicks, but could they be on the same level as the knicks? yes IMHO.
actually i wasnt even comparing them to the knicks,but your arguement was they are old and slow+ Arajuo is Green. Are the thin up front in terms of depth and expereince? absolutley.

But if we say

C Arajuo vs KT---ill give it to kT but i will denote that KT is 2 inches smaller 60 pounds lighter+8 years older PF Bosh vs Nazr--ill say even for now
SF Marshall vs TT--Marshall
SG Carter vs Houston? Carter
PG Marbury vs rose Marbury

Bench i give to the Knicks by a good margin. thats where our advatage is.
RIP Crushalot😞
crzymdups
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9/14/2004  4:11 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

I never said they were a better team than the knicks, but could they be on the same level as the knicks? yes IMHO.
actually i wasnt even comparing them to the knicks,but your arguement was they are old and slow+ Arajuo is Green. Are the thin up front in terms of depth and expereince? absolutley.

But if we say

C Arajuo vs KT---ill give it to kT but i will denote that KT is 2 inches smaller 60 pounds lighter+8 years older PF Bosh vs Nazr--ill say even for now
SF Marshall vs TT--Marshall
SG Carter vs Houston? Carter
PG Marbury vs rose Marbury

Bench i give to the Knicks by a good margin. thats where our advatage is.

Actually, I'll give you Arajuo and Bosh. They have far more upside, but this season our boys will probably out play them. Tim is more polished than anyone other than Donyell, and I'd rather have Tim.

I don't think it's fair to compare Houston to Vince. I think you should compare Marbury to Vince. And if you look at say the last two or three seasons, it's no contest that Marbury is better. He led two teams to the playoffs that didn't make it the season before he got there (in NYK's case) or the season after he left (in PHO's). Vince hasn't played a full season or been the penetrator that once conjured comparisons to MJ. He's gone downhill since that fated Game 7 against the Sixers. Marbury is still getting better (his assist numbers with the Knicks were the highest in his career). Marbury is better than Carter. On two teams built mainly around guards, that's the main difference.

Also, who would you rather have? Jamal Crawford or Jalen Rose? Next season it may be fairly even, but from then on, Craw will kill him. So, while the Raptors have a better front court future, we have a slightly better one at present and our backcourt would absolutely decimate them.
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Bonn1997
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9/14/2004  8:54 PM
Bosh is a wonderfull player and prospect, but he's the only guy on that team worth building anything around.
I agree. Bosh is a great prospect. He's tall (with a great wingspan) and very athletic. I think the only thing that could hold him back is injuries. No one else on that team is worth building around, although I don't know much about Araujo. (I'll take your word for it that he's nothing special, even though he was a lottery pick.)
Mac
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9/14/2004  10:06 PM
He seems to be the second coming of Bill Lambier.
BRIGGS
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9/15/2004  10:34 AM
there is an article today that states Bosh put on size[there was an early article that said he was coming to camp 15 pounds heavier and an inch taller} and supposedly Arajuo lost weight down to 275 but now bench presses 550 pounds.
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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9/15/2004  11:06 AM
I read that article.. Bosh had too, he wore down as the season went on and finished below the 225 he started the year at. Aroujo had to lose weight because he's just not quick enough. You can only do so much pushing and shoving until skill takes over. Aroujo is also 24, so he's a very old rookie. I think he will be ok and his lack of speed and athleticism will be helped by hainvg Bosh at PF. nice mix of muscle and quickness in that duo moving forward.

I just think we are talented and deeper all around. I think we are more skilled have fewer question marks. I see Tor as a 35-38 win team. I see the Knicks as a 45-48 win team. A lot can happen.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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this team has no chance at being seriously competitive in the atlantic?
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