ekstarks94 wrote:Phil...and every drat site in existence said this kid was a couple of years away.....why in the hell do you think every team asks for him in trade discussions....

The kid is young..plays tentative because of the NBA....is the Daytona 500...,.not the Winn Dixie Saturday night race..bringing Mudiay will bring that competition internally that will help make Frank better..

You have insight to trade talks? Okafor was thought to be 1st pick by those mentioned as well. Don't mean much as it is all a educated guessing game.

Regardless, Don't think anyone here has pushed trading him. If hate means bringing out his lack of production thus far, inconsistency and fear of taking wide open shots then thats on you. Fact is he has not had a good year compared to other passed on picks. And yes he is young, athletic and NO ONE knows what he will turn out to be. But that may be why some thought it was a risky pick.

Can tell you one thing, Perry/Mills has made a statement (Mudiay) as to what type of point guard they would have preffered.

Thats all you need to know about Phil Jackson in NY. Nothing anyone says here will change that. Dont know why some of you try so hard to paper this over.

As for Frank, that report was a long way of saying the kid is talented but needs time. OK, I'll buy that. Sure give Frank all the time he needs, while the Knicks find a starter for next season who plays like an actual NBA Point Guard. Who dishes, AND knows when to look for his own shot.

My problem with all the Frank hype on this board is that some of you want it both ways. You want Frank to get major minutes, and you want fans to be patient because he needs to be brought along slowly. Which one is it?

You want fans to be patient with Frank then you should have no problem with Perry trying to find a legit starting PG to run the show until Frank figures things out. Frank is a nice prospect, but no way do I want his development to be more important than finding the best starting PG we can going into next season, without giving out a killer contract. Other players need to grow as well, even vets. Cant do that with half a PG.

If you really believe that Frank needs time, you should have no problem with him coming off the bench next season.

GustavBahler wrote:80-166

Thats all you need to know about Phil Jackson in NY. Nothing anyone says here will change that. Dont know why some of you try so hard to paper this over.

As for Frank, that report was a long way of saying the kid is talented but needs time. OK, I'll buy that. Sure give Frank all the time he needs, while the Knicks find a starter for next season who plays like an actual NBA Point Guard. Who dishes, AND knows when to look for his own shot.

My problem with all the Frank hype on this board is that some of you want it both ways. You want Frank to get major minutes, and you want fans to be patient because he needs to be brought along slowly. Which one is it?

You want fans to be patient with Frank then you should have no problem with Perry trying to find a legit starting PG to run the show until Frank figures things out. Frank is a nice prospect, but no way do I want his development to be more important than finding the best starting PG we can going into next season, without giving out a killer contract. Other players need to grow as well, even vets. Cant do that with half a PG.

If you really believe that Frank needs time, you should have no problem with him coming off the bench next season.

I agree with Perry bringing in a legit point .....who knows Mudiay may turn out to b that....by the time he is ready to be re-upped we will have a better sense of who Frank is....if not at the very least we have 3 guards with different skill sets under 25....

Like a Perry said...talent acquisition mode

ekstarks94 wrote:Frank Ntilikina - The Steady Pro Not as well-known among the casual fan as the college guards, Ntilikina is a high-floor prospect who is destined for, at the very least, a long career as a versatile, two-way player with a high IQ and professional approach to the game. With the physical profile of an NBA two guard (6'6 with a 7-foot wingspan and a projectable frame) and a high motor, Ntilikina projects as a three-position defender who can make a spot up three, play off of closeouts, execute the simple pass while on or off the ball, and use his long strides to slither his way to the rim out of pick and roll. A high character young man by way of Belgium (the son of Rwandan refugees), Ntilikina should be viewed as more of a slow and steady' prospect who isn't likely to provide much wow factor out of the gates like a De'Aaron Fox or Dennis Smith might. While we weren't able to see his full arsenal of skills during his season with Strasbourg, where he played mostly off the ball, Ntilikina showed what he can do on the ball with a huge 2016 U18 European Championships, yet he's still a couple years from having a big offensive impact at the NBA level. U18 European Championship

Breakdown: Ntilikina plays somewhat of a calculated game, and he's not all that explosive or shifty with the ball, making it essential that he's brought along slowly on the offensive end, being used as a defender/secondary ball handler in his NBA minutes, while playing strictly on the ball in the D-League. Ntilikina is eventually going to be rock solid in almost any situation, because he's a willing defender with length, possesses a strong feel for the game, has pro experience at the ripe age of 18, and has turned himself into a fairly reliable shooter with time and space. Where Ntilikina may falter is if he's thrust into a huge role as a lead guard early on in his career. Slipping' a bit in the draft may end up benefitting Ntilikina, as he'll likely end up on a more competitive team where he can play a role, as his point guard polish and shot creation continue to develop. Landing in Charlotte and learning from Kemba Walker, fellow Frenchmen Nicolas Batum and well-respected head coach Steve Clifford could provide Ntilikina with the basis he needs, especially considering the Hornets strong relationship with its D-League team in Greensboro. Miami would also be a great place for Ntilikina to grow as his work ethic and approach would be welcomed by Pat Riley and Erik Spoelstra, who run arguably the most regimented organization in the NBA. Playing for one of the top coaches in the NBA and learning from a fellow international guard like Goran Dragic could be a perfect recipe for Ntilikina. Milwaukee is reportedly very high on him as well, but would likely have to move up. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/breaking-down-the-2017-nba-draft-39-s-loaded-guard-crop-6063/ ©DraftExpress

A guy being picked 8 shouldn't have a scouting report that suggests he learns to play PG in the D-League

smackeddog wrote:People need to be patient- Hopefully we end up with a top 5 pick this year, then another one next year, by which point KP will hopefully be back cooking, Frank will have had 2 yrs development, and we'll have a huge chunk of cap space as Noah's salary is off the books. We could come out of KPs injury pretty well.

What gives you the impression they would pick the right guy

GustavBahler wrote:G-League, would have been a good place for a rookie to work on his game this season, who has played like second round talent to this point.

I've asked this several time in other threads but no one has yet to respond.

Who here has any understanding of the difference between growth environment between the NBA and the GLeague? Guys can get playing time in the GLeague, if that is the ONLY aspect of what is needed, but what about everything else that is provided at the NBA level that is not within the G-League: more access to coaches, nutrition, weight training, going up again other NBA players, etc.

GustavBahler, you've mentioned that Frank should go to the GLeague over and over. What is your experience with the GLeague and what it has to offer over training on an NBA team? What other players can we point to that couldn't get time on an NBA that played in GLeague and developed? What is your plan? Only home games, going back and forth with NBA? A few weeks? The rest of the season? Travel with GLeague team?

What are the positives and negatives in going to the GLeague? What are the positives and negatives in staying on the NBA team with their coaches?

Frank will be getting time playing over the summer where no doubt he will be in a position to get the same type of GLeague experience but he won't be able to get back his NBA time with team.

Can anyone put any more teeth into the line "Send Frank to the Gleague" or is that it? Seems fairly simplistic to me.

Jmpasq wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:Frank Ntilikina - The Steady Pro Not as well-known among the casual fan as the college guards, Ntilikina is a high-floor prospect who is destined for, at the very least, a long career as a versatile, two-way player with a high IQ and professional approach to the game. With the physical profile of an NBA two guard (6'6 with a 7-foot wingspan and a projectable frame) and a high motor, Ntilikina projects as a three-position defender who can make a spot up three, play off of closeouts, execute the simple pass while on or off the ball, and use his long strides to slither his way to the rim out of pick and roll. A high character young man by way of Belgium (the son of Rwandan refugees), Ntilikina should be viewed as more of a slow and steady' prospect who isn't likely to provide much wow factor out of the gates like a De'Aaron Fox or Dennis Smith might. While we weren't able to see his full arsenal of skills during his season with Strasbourg, where he played mostly off the ball, Ntilikina showed what he can do on the ball with a huge 2016 U18 European Championships, yet he's still a couple years from having a big offensive impact at the NBA level. U18 European Championship

Breakdown: Ntilikina plays somewhat of a calculated game, and he's not all that explosive or shifty with the ball, making it essential that he's brought along slowly on the offensive end, being used as a defender/secondary ball handler in his NBA minutes, while playing strictly on the ball in the D-League. Ntilikina is eventually going to be rock solid in almost any situation, because he's a willing defender with length, possesses a strong feel for the game, has pro experience at the ripe age of 18, and has turned himself into a fairly reliable shooter with time and space. Where Ntilikina may falter is if he's thrust into a huge role as a lead guard early on in his career. Slipping' a bit in the draft may end up benefitting Ntilikina, as he'll likely end up on a more competitive team where he can play a role, as his point guard polish and shot creation continue to develop. Landing in Charlotte and learning from Kemba Walker, fellow Frenchmen Nicolas Batum and well-respected head coach Steve Clifford could provide Ntilikina with the basis he needs, especially considering the Hornets strong relationship with its D-League team in Greensboro. Miami would also be a great place for Ntilikina to grow as his work ethic and approach would be welcomed by Pat Riley and Erik Spoelstra, who run arguably the most regimented organization in the NBA. Playing for one of the top coaches in the NBA and learning from a fellow international guard like Goran Dragic could be a perfect recipe for Ntilikina. Milwaukee is reportedly very high on him as well, but would likely have to move up. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/breaking-down-the-2017-nba-draft-39-s-loaded-guard-crop-6063/ ©DraftExpress

A guy being picked 8 shouldn't have a scouting report that suggests he learns to play PG in the D-League

The scouting report didn't say anything about the Knicks losing the first 3 games of the season without the 19 yr old 8th pick in the rotation. Nor did the scouting report say when the Knicks added the 19 yr old 8th pick to the rotation for 20 minutes per game the Knicks won 6 of the next 7 games. The 19 yr old 8th pick performance in the 4th qtr. provided a energy defense the Knicks havnt seen since Walt Clyde Frazier were a Knick.

ekstarks94 wrote:Frank Ntilikina - The Steady Pro Not as well-known among the casual fan as the college guards, Ntilikina is a high-floor prospect who is destined for, at the very least, a long career as a versatile, two-way player with a high IQ and professional approach to the game. With the physical profile of an NBA two guard (6'6 with a 7-foot wingspan and a projectable frame) and a high motor, Ntilikina projects as a three-position defender who can make a spot up three, play off of closeouts, execute the simple pass while on or off the ball, and use his long strides to slither his way to the rim out of pick and roll. A high character young man by way of Belgium (the son of Rwandan refugees), Ntilikina should be viewed as more of a slow and steady' prospect who isn't likely to provide much wow factor out of the gates like a De'Aaron Fox or Dennis Smith might. While we weren't able to see his full arsenal of skills during his season with Strasbourg, where he played mostly off the ball, Ntilikina showed what he can do on the ball with a huge 2016 U18 European Championships, yet he's still a couple years from having a big offensive impact at the NBA level. U18 European Championship

Breakdown: Ntilikina plays somewhat of a calculated game, and he's not all that explosive or shifty with the ball, making it essential that he's brought along slowly on the offensive end, being used as a defender/secondary ball handler in his NBA minutes, while playing strictly on the ball in the D-League. Ntilikina is eventually going to be rock solid in almost any situation, because he's a willing defender with length, possesses a strong feel for the game, has pro experience at the ripe age of 18, and has turned himself into a fairly reliable shooter with time and space. Where Ntilikina may falter is if he's thrust into a huge role as a lead guard early on in his career. Slipping' a bit in the draft may end up benefitting Ntilikina, as he'll likely end up on a more competitive team where he can play a role, as his point guard polish and shot creation continue to develop. Landing in Charlotte and learning from Kemba Walker, fellow Frenchmen Nicolas Batum and well-respected head coach Steve Clifford could provide Ntilikina with the basis he needs, especially considering the Hornets strong relationship with its D-League team in Greensboro. Miami would also be a great place for Ntilikina to grow as his work ethic and approach would be welcomed by Pat Riley and Erik Spoelstra, who run arguably the most regimented organization in the NBA. Playing for one of the top coaches in the NBA and learning from a fellow international guard like Goran Dragic could be a perfect recipe for Ntilikina. Milwaukee is reportedly very high on him as well, but would likely have to move up. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/breaking-down-the-2017-nba-draft-39-s-loaded-guard-crop-6063/ ©DraftExpress

That scouting report has been pretty damn accurate to this point. Don't think you can look at Frank as just a PG prospect. He is a prospect that can offer tons of flexibility to coaches with lineups. And could potentially do anything on the court contributing in a variety of ways. The level at which he will be able to do these things is the question though. But IMO we should continue to build the team up with they vision. Collecting as many players a possible that offer possible all around skills and flexibility/versatility. It may take a few seasons to build up a strong enough foundation. If done right the payoff would be tremendous though.

It's easy to hate on a 19 yr old with Franks type of game though so its not really worth arguing about. If he is traded and does well for another team a few yrs later. Fans will just complain about Knicks lack of development ability. If he ends up being a good player for the Knicks then fans will get to enjoy him producing for the Knicks while claiming they always were "rooting" for him. If he flops then fans can brag about being right. There is little downs side in knocking him. You will never hear yea I was impatient though. Or I had an agenda since he isn't the player I preferred. So I found any opportunity I could to knock him.

Sorry you had to be drafted by Phil Jackson Frank. Keep you head up and keep working. On you to turn the jeers into cheers.

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:G-League, would have been a good place for a rookie to work on his game this season, who has played like second round talent to this point.

I've asked this several time in other threads but no one has yet to respond.

Who here has any understanding of the difference between growth environment between the NBA and the GLeague? Guys can get playing time in the GLeague, if that is the ONLY aspect of what is needed, but what about everything else that is provided at the NBA level that is not within the G-League: more access to coaches, nutrition, weight training, going up again other NBA players, etc.

GustavBahler, you've mentioned that Frank should go to the GLeague over and over. What is your experience with the GLeague and what it has to offer over training on an NBA team? What other players can we point to that couldn't get time on an NBA that played in GLeague and developed? What is your plan? Only home games, going back and forth with NBA? A few weeks? The rest of the season? Travel with GLeague team?

What are the positives and negatives in going to the GLeague? What are the positives and negatives in staying on the NBA team with their coaches?

Frank will be getting time playing over the summer where no doubt he will be in a position to get the same type of GLeague experience but he won't be able to get back his NBA time with team.

Can anyone put any more teeth into the line "Send Frank to the Gleague" or is that it? Seems fairly simplistic to me.

I think you are making the point that Frank would be better in the nba no matter how much he struggles and is scrutinized so that he can experience nba coaching, playing experience. travel etc. Sometimes it is better to be the best in the 'b' group then the worst in the 'a' group. A lot of very good players have come from the d league. A lot of guys that are very good were developed there despite being drafted Capella, Gobert, Hardaway jr., D.Green etc. I think you need to get past defending Frank and look at what is best for his development. Staying with the Knicks might be the best thing but it isn't the only option. Barring injuries, Frank should have a 15-17 year career. If the Knick organization sees Westchester as a good developmental program then they should consider it for Frank. If the thought is that he is better off being with the NBA team then don't send him down. I thought Perry did a great job bringing in Jack to mentor Frank. He has been described by some in the media as the perfect vet mentor/locker room guy. Whatever decision is made it should be based on development and not on not on not embarrassing the franchise or embarrassing Frank. My guess is that the coaching staff knows Frank well enough to know if sending him down for development devastates him and harms his growth.

Both of your points highlighted are off, utterly and completely. Literally I am asking about the GLeague and what you know about it. "I think you are making the point that Frank would be better in the nba no matter how much he struggles". Why would you try to put words to me?

Reread my post very closely. I never defend Frank, and in fact I am looking at what is best for his development: I AM LITERALLY ASKING ABOUT WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

I want you and Gustav to tell me what you know about the GLeague and how it is better, compare and contrast, not just throw **** against the wall and see if it sticks.

Please address some of the meat of my post:

Who here has any understanding of the difference between growth environment between the NBA and the GLeague? Guys can get playing time in the GLeague, if that is the ONLY aspect of what is needed, but what about everything else that is provided at the NBA level that is not within the G-League: more access to coaches, nutrition, weight training, going up again other NBA players, etc.

What is your experience with the GLeague and what it has to offer over training on an NBA team? What other players can we point to that couldn't get time on an NBA that played in GLeague and developed? What is your plan? Only home games, going back and forth with NBA? A few weeks? The rest of the season? Travel with GLeague team?

What are the positives and negatives in going to the GLeague? What are the positives and negatives in staying on the NBA team with their coaches?

Also, if you ask Frank to go to the GLeague and just take a me-first attitude on the offensive end of things, does that wreck the whole chemistry of their development system of the other guys on the team? Does it take away from the whole structure of team ball?

This is not a black and white thing. Send Frank, magic happens, Frank is suddenly better and fixed.