Knixkik wrote:You think Frank is a 2nd round talent? Wow.

Yep. Right now he is playing like a guy that could have been taken in the second round..Dillon Brooks, Jordan Bell, Frank Mason. And not as good as some others taken in late 1st round...Kuzma. Btw shooting 34/30% wont even keep him in the league.

But okay, what stats have shown him to be a first round pick? We can keep wishing ait nd pointing out obscure defensive stats, but if we are going to be real, he has not been what everyone expected after a losing year.

I am hoping he turns into a start as much as the next guy, But tired of the lost that keep ignoring reality.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knixkik wrote:You think Frank is a 2nd round talent? Wow.

Yep. Right now he is playing like a guy that could have been taken in the second round..Dillon Brooks, Jordan Bell, Frank Mason. And not as good as some others taken in late 1st round...Kuzma. Btw shooting 34/30% wont even keep him in the league.

But okay, what stats have shown him to be a first round pick? We can keep wishing ait nd pointing out obscure defensive stats, but if we are going to be real, he has not been what everyone expected after a losing year.

I am hoping he turns into a start as much as the next guy, But tired of the lost that keep ignoring reality.

Is it more important how a guy develops over the next three/four years or over his first three/four months? Is this not irrational? Ironically, based on your logic and the stats of the first 1/2 of their rookie seasons, the Bucks should've drafted Tim Hardaway Jr. instead of the Greek Freak.

Do you think anyone in Milwaukee cares that Giannis Antetokounmpo (based on your logic) played like a 2nd round talent as a rookie because his stats were comparable to Ray McCallum, Nate Wolters and Ryan Kelly who were taken in the 2nd round in 2013?

Welpee wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Knixkik wrote:You think Frank is a 2nd round talent? Wow.

Yep. Right now he is playing like a guy that could have been taken in the second round..Dillon Brooks, Jordan Bell, Frank Mason. And not as good as some others taken in late 1st round...Kuzma. Btw shooting 34/30% wont even keep him in the league.

But okay, what stats have shown him to be a first round pick? We can keep wishing ait nd pointing out obscure defensive stats, but if we are going to be real, he has not been what everyone expected after a losing year.

I am hoping he turns into a start as much as the next guy, But tired of the lost that keep ignoring reality.

Do you not at least concede that making determinations about a rookie based on 1/2 of his first season is illogical?

Is it more important how a guy develops over the next three/four years or over his first three/four months? Is this not irrational? Ironically, based on your logic and the stats of the first 1/2 of their rookie seasons, the Bucks should've traded Tim Hardaway Jr. instead of the Greek Freak.

Do you think anyone in Milwaukee cares that Giannis Antetokounmpo (based on your logic) played like a 2nd round talent as a rookie because his stats were comparable to Ray McCallum, Nate Wolters and Ryan Kelly who were taken in the 2nd round in 2013?

Did I say he will never play again? Or that the Knicks should release him? Trade him? I have been consistent. You cant give up on him and I would not trade him this early. I am saying he has not played like an 8th pick thus far. Some guys just cant handle that.

HofstraBBall wrote:I like the guys on this years team. Beas was a good pick up. Kanter and Buckets were a decent assets traded for Melo. Specially since Phil Phucked up any chance of getting something substantial. But lets not lie to ourselves. The powers that be have hoodwinked us fans/season ticket holders for years. Some bought the con that we were rebuilding the right way with a old dinasour with an even older system that players ran away from like the plague. Then "9 lives" Mills (Dolans boy) comes in as the savior and fools people to think that he actually cares about the team. Even though he has shown, for quite some time, that he is just a corporate slug whos only goal is to survive and get a Phil type Golden Parachute. He is pushing the "Rebuild" narrative. 4th time in 4 years. Translation, I cant be fired because we are rebuilding. So I will need at least a five year paid pass.

These are my predictions and issues. We used our 8th pick on a second round player. No matter how the lost try to spin it. We wont be able to keep any of the guys we just picked up. (Kanter, Doug, Beas) Our "young core" is down to just KP and Timmy. We will lose KP if the FO keeps replacing experienced NBA players (Lee, Kanter, KO, Buckets, Beasley) with fan hyped long shots, draft picks and G League call ups (Frank, Baker etc, etc)

This second half of the season will say a lot. If we dump our better experienced players and refuse to extend our new assets, that have performed, its business as usual. (The business of fooling fans into buying tickets and building franchise market value)

And NO I am not gonna stop being a fan or hit the road since I am so negative on the future. Been a fan since I was a kid so I will do what all die hard fans do, complain, yell at the players, argue with the lost and look forward to the next frustrating game.

If future is this year or next 2 years then I have to agree.
This team will suck for sure.
After this it may get better... but only if the team will be patient and will never cave under the pressure of ever inpatient NY fan base.

knicks1248 wrote:It's only going to work for Frank if he has the right development process, and we don't.

Oh yeah? Please do tell us all what you know about this Knicks’ development process and how Franks doing within it.

This I want to hear

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:It's only going to work for Frank if he has the right development process, and we don't.

Oh yeah? Please do tell us all what you know about this Knicks’ development process and how Franks doing within it.

This I want to hear

I really don't have to say anything, all you have to do is look at the results. When i see young players getting better under the knicks management..

Results looking good so far.
Defense is great, playmaking coming around, more confidence in shooting, some rather unsure drives to the paint.
For the first of 5 years development program looking great.

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:It's only going to work for Frank if he has the right development process, and we don't.

Oh yeah? Please do tell us all what you know about this Knicks’ development process and how Franks doing within it.

This I want to hear

I really don't have to say anything, all you have to do is look at the results. When i see young players getting better under the knicks management..Then i'll say different. But when i see players regress, making the same mistakes over and over. Not putting the correct roster, system doesn't cater to the player..

I don’t even know what that means.

I don't want to talk for him. But I think I share a level of concern about what we are doing to develop players.

And I think exhibit A is KP. He's developed a lot of bad habits - those have been documented.

Me, simple is he says he is tired, and then we continue to play him over 30 minutes in games, even in blow outs.

KP is young, doesn't have the physical or mental stamina. Sure, we need him *to win. But we need him more to become a championship team.

And I think we're trying too hard to win this year, and not doing enough to develop players.

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:It's only going to work for Frank if he has the right development process, and we don't.

Oh yeah? Please do tell us all what you know about this Knicks’ development process and how Franks doing within it.

This I want to hear

I really don't have to say anything, all you have to do is look at the results. When i see young players getting better under the knicks management..Then i'll say different. But when i see players regress, making the same mistakes over and over. Not putting the correct roster, system doesn't cater to the player..

I don’t even know what that means.

I don't want to talk for him. But I think I share a level of concern about what we are doing to develop players.

And I think exhibit A is KP. He's developed a lot of bad habits - those have been documented.

Me, simple is he says he is tired, and then we continue to play him over 30 minutes in games, even in blow outs.

KP is young, doesn't have the physical or mental stamina. Sure, we need him *to win. But we need him more to become a championship team.

And I think we're trying too hard to win this year, and not doing enough to develop players.

Porzingis is 22 years old and was supposed to be a major project. Now he's averaging 24 and 7 and although not an efficient scorer, shows flashes of offensively brilliance and dominant interior defense. What more do you expect from him at this point in his career? This is what i don't understand. We are going to likely win our most games in 4 years with significantly less talent than the last 2 seasons. Porzingis has carried this group to an accelerated rebuilt. Is he supposed to be MVP level at this point? What's the expectation for a 3rd year player who averages 24/7 with elite defense from a develop standpoint?

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

martin wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:It's only going to work for Frank if he has the right development process, and we don't.

Oh yeah? Please do tell us all what you know about this Knicks’ development process and how Franks doing within it.

This I want to hear

I really don't have to say anything, all you have to do is look at the results. When i see young players getting better under the knicks management..Then i'll say different. But when i see players regress, making the same mistakes over and over. Not putting the correct roster, system doesn't cater to the player..

I don’t even know what that means.

I don't want to talk for him. But I think I share a level of concern about what we are doing to develop players.

And I think exhibit A is KP. He's developed a lot of bad habits - those have been documented.

Me, simple is he says he is tired, and then we continue to play him over 30 minutes in games, even in blow outs.

KP is young, doesn't have the physical or mental stamina. Sure, we need him *to win. But we need him more to become a championship team.

And I think we're trying too hard to win this year, and not doing enough to develop players.

Porzingis is 22 years old and was supposed to be a major project. Now he's averaging 24 and 7 and although not an efficient scorer, shows flashes of offensively brilliance and dominant interior defense. What more do you expect from him at this point in his career? This is what i don't understand. We are going to likely win our most games in 4 years with significantly less talent than the last 2 seasons. Porzingis has carried this group to an accelerated rebuilt. Is he supposed to be MVP level at this point? What's the expectation for a 3rd year player who averages 24/7 with elite defense from a develop standpoint?

Exactly, it's mind boggling to me that there is a sentiment that teams don't develop players correctly. That's not an easy one to put a finger but also sometime easy enough to see.

How do players develop? How much time do teams HAVE to develop players? During the season or before? Or both? Are the Knicks doing enough of both? What is a sensible timeline to judge this? Week to week? Month to month? Season to season?

How much of is it on the team versus how much of it is on the player? Or is it a combination?