Ultimateknicks.com Forums: KP still wants to see growth before sign extension.

knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:We can match any offer anyway s it really doesn't matter
well he has to want to stay for the knicks to match any offer,

well he will be a RFA so he is gonna be here. Plus he wants to be here

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10/21/2017 10:55 PM

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StarksEwing1 wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:We can match any offer anyway s it really doesn't matter
well he has to want to stay for the knicks to match any offer,
well he will be a RFA so he is gonna be here. Plus he wants to be here

he will get his money but will want an opt out after year 2 im sure

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Knickoftime
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10/21/2017 10:56 PM

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knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:We can match any offer anyway s it really doesn't matter
well he has to want to stay for the knicks to match any offer,

You guys are missing the bigger picture and why NO player has ever declined a max rookie extension ever.

He's only guaranteed one more year (his 4th) after this one, for $5.7m. His rfa year isnt guaranteed.

Here's the key - he's eligible to sign a 5-year extension after this season, before his 4th season even begins, giving him 6 guaranteed years, including the last 5 for $148m, and that could be even much higher if he makes the 1st, 2nd or 3rd all-NBA teams this year.

In order to leave he'd have to forgo no less than $154m over 6 to play for $5.7m for 1, and then play ANOTHER unguaranteed year for $7.5 (his QO) for the privelage of accepting less years and lower raises elsewhere in a market limited to those with his max cap room.

He isn't going anywhere. Nobody EVER has.

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10/21/2017 11:34 PM

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He is saying the right things. He needs to put pressure on the front office. This team doesn't have enough talent around him. But they have time and I'm sure he wants a reason to stay and sign the extension.

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10/21/2017 11:43 PM

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Knickoftime wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:We can match any offer anyway s it really doesn't matter
well he has to want to stay for the knicks to match any offer,
You guys are missing the bigger picture and why NO player has ever declined a max rookie extension ever.
He's only guaranteed one more year (his 4th) after this one, for $5.7m. His rfa year isnt guaranteed.
Here's the key - he's eligible to sign a 5-year extension after this season, before his 4th season even begins, giving him 6 guaranteed years, including the last 5 for $148m, and that could be even much higher if he makes the 1st, 2nd or 3rd all-NBA teams this year.
In order to leave he'd have to forgo no less than $154m over 6 to play for $5.7m for 1, and then play ANOTHER unguaranteed year for $7.5 (his QO) for the privelage of accepting less years and lower raises elsewhere in a market limited to those with his max cap room.
He isn't going anywhere. Nobody EVER has.

FINANCIAL LOGIC!

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10/22/2017 12:22 AM

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I thought he was implying taking a Qualifying Offer and then being a UFA the next season.....

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Knickoftime
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10/22/2017 12:30 AM

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wargames wrote:I thought he was implying taking a Qualifying Offer and then being a UFA the next season.....

Yes, he CAN leave $150m on the table to play for $5.7m for no guarantee for the next season and then play for $7.5m with no guarantee for the next season and become a ufa for the 2020-21 season.

Just nobody ever has.

If he turns down their max extension in June 2018 btw, he'll be traded and get a terrific return.

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10/22/2017 2:31 AM LAST EDITED: 10/22/2017 2:37 AM

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KP will not leave. The one will leave is our future first round picks and Willy,

A star does not need to actually leave to force his prez/gm. KP just needs to knock on Dolan's door and says, "Mills doesn't help me. Please find someone else."

The authority is already broken. Mills doesn't have 13 rings (he wasn'tt even a NBA player), of course he knows what to do to survive. He has to "help" KP and his window. KP is not here to tank for anyone. He probably thought by skipping exit meeting it would make the team better.

At the end, at the worst case. Knicks could turns into old Knicks (capped, throwing picks for some useless instant help )and KP could turn into new Melo (no help, fight and die alone)

Currently, our only hope is Mills. Without Phil Jackson holding his back, Mills finally can draft and sign some very good players now.

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10/22/2017 3:21 AM

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mlby1215 wrote:KP will not leave. The one will leave is our future first round picks and Willy,
A star does not need to actually leave to force his prez/gm. KP just needs to knock on Dolan's door and says, "Mills doesn't help me. Please find someone else."
The authority is already broken. Mills doesn't have 13 rings (he wasn'tt even a NBA player), of course he knows what to do to survive. He has to "help" KP and his window. KP is not here to tank for anyone. He probably thought by skipping exit meeting it would make the team better.
At the end, at the worst case. Knicks could turns into old Knicks (capped, throwing picks for some useless instant help )and KP could turn into new Melo (no help, fight and die alone)
Currently, our only hope is Mills. Without Phil Jackson holding his back, Mills finally can draft and sign some very good players now.

Aside from Ainge and Riley are there any ex nba players/coaches in gm/pres positions that are winning big?
Riley as a coach adapted to his players. Riey as an exec hired a coach with the sae philosophy and supported him. Spo is one of the best and most respected coaches in the nba.

I think you are right about Mills being a survivor. MSG is a unique place to work. I hope he learned during his time at MSG when the Knicks were really bad and had really bad gm/pres including Mills. I think hiring Perry was smart. Phil needed a Perry to do the leg work and hire a coach.
I think there is a chance KP leaves. I think if Frank is a really good player he stays. I think if he is just a role player KP probably leaves. Frank was Phil's last stamp on the team. I think Frank probably is the reason KP stays or goes. If the Knicks get a really high pick this year and he sees a future of winning that might make him stay. I don't think he likes or trusts his coach.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18

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10/22/2017 3:55 AM

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wargames wrote:I thought he was implying taking a Qualifying Offer and then being a UFA the next season.....

With his injury worries he'd be a moron to try it

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10/22/2017 4:54 AM

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Of course Phil Jackson didn't do a very good job, but the problem is that I'd rather believe he could have learned his mistakes than Mills could. Knicks will not have a very bright future with Mills, and we can't exactly get rid of him. He will be replaced by who? Isiah Thomas? We can fire Phil Jackson but we cannot fire Dolan's boys because they are not one guy. Phil Jackson was the only thing stopping them coming back.

We fired the prez who was feud with our superstar but that superstar still went away, and currently the coach who actually made KP angry still has the job. I really don't know what we are doing, sometimes.

But past is the past, everything else is history. Let's hope THjr, Kanter, Willy and Bakers can grow together.

CrushAlot wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:KP will not leave. The one will leave is our future first round picks and Willy,
A star does not need to actually leave to force his prez/gm. KP just needs to knock on Dolan's door and says, "Mills doesn't help me. Please find someone else."
The authority is already broken. Mills doesn't have 13 rings (he wasn'tt even a NBA player), of course he knows what to do to survive. He has to "help" KP and his window. KP is not here to tank for anyone. He probably thought by skipping exit meeting it would make the team better.
At the end, at the worst case. Knicks could turns into old Knicks (capped, throwing picks for some useless instant help )and KP could turn into new Melo (no help, fight and die alone)
Currently, our only hope is Mills. Without Phil Jackson holding his back, Mills finally can draft and sign some very good players now.

Aside from Ainge and Riley are there any ex nba players/coaches in gm/pres positions that are winning big?
Riley as a coach adapted to his players. Riey as an exec hired a coach with the sae philosophy and supported him. Spo is one of the best and most respected coaches in the nba.
I think you are right about Mills being a survivor. MSG is a unique place to work. I hope he learned during his time at MSG when the Knicks were really bad and had really bad gm/pres including Mills. I think hiring Perry was smart. Phil needed a Perry to do the leg work and hire a coach.
I think there is a chance KP leaves. I think if Frank is a really good player he stays. I think if he is just a role player KP probably leaves. Frank was Phil's last stamp on the team. I think Frank probably is the reason KP stays or goes. If the Knicks get a really high pick this year and he sees a future of winning that might make him stay. I don't think he likes or trusts his coach.

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10/22/2017 6:54 AM

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mlby1215 wrote:Of course Phil Jackson didn't do a very good job, but the problem is that I'd rather believe he could hasve learned his mistakes than Mills could. Knicks will not have a very bright future with Mills, and we can't exactly get rid of him. He will be replaced by who? Isiah Thomas? We can fire Phil Jackson but we cannot fire Dolan's boys because they are not one guy. Phil Jackson was the only thing stopping them coming back.
We fired the prez who was feud with our superstar but that superstar still went away, and currently the coach who actually made KP angry still has the job. I really don't know what we are doing, sometimes.
But past is the past, everything else is history. Let's hope THjr, Kanter, Willy and Bakers can grow together.
CrushAlot wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:KP will not leave. The one will leave is our future first round picks and Willy,
A star does not need to actually leave to force his prez/gm. KP just needs to knock on Dolan's door and says, "Mills doesn't help me. Please find someone else."
The authority is already broken. Mills doesn't have 13 rings (he wasn'tt even a NBA player), of course he knows what to do to survive. He has to "help" KP and his window. KP is not here to tank for anyone. He probably thought by skipping exit meeting it would make the team better.
At the end, at the worst case. Knicks could turns into old Knicks (capped, throwing picks for some useless instant help )and KP could turn into new Melo (no help, fight and die alone)
Currently, our only hope is Mills. Without Phil Jackson holding his back, Mills finally can draft and sign some very good players now.

Aside from Ainge and Riley are there any ex nba players/coaches in gm/pres positions that are winning big?
Riley as a coach adapted to his players. Riey as an exec hired a coach with the sae philosophy and supported him. Spo is one of the best and most respected coaches in the nba.
I think you are right about Mills being a survivor. MSG is a unique place to work. I hope he learned during his time at MSG when the Knicks were really bad and had really bad gm/pres including Mills. I think hiring Perry was smart. Phil needed a Perry to do the leg work and hire a coach.
I think there is a chance KP leaves. I think if Frank is a really good player he stays. I think if he is just a role player KP probably leaves. Frank was Phil's last stamp on the team. I think Frank probably is the reason KP stays or goes. If the Knicks get a really high pick this year and he sees a future of winning that might make him stay. I don't think he likes or trusts his coach.

Phil was close to trading KP...albeit for a ridiculous haul had Boston acquiesced.....and he was going to take 60 mill of salary from the rockets without a 1st...teams in the deal with them were asking for two 1st just to absorb his contract....this would have been the Calderon deal all over again....Phil was too arrogant to learn from his mistakes....force feeding the triangle to prove a point that you could win in today's NBA with that....

Mills is a business guy....Perry is an nba guy....like someone mentioned if Phil hired a Perry and did not force his offense onto the team things may have been different....

KP does not leave on Franks ability....Frank was never supposed to be his second....KP leaves if the same s**t as last year keeps happening...dysfunction....so far I have not seen it.....also we have to make progress...if we lose a game like this by or after all star break on a regular basis....then there is no improvement....Jeff will be gone and a new start...that brings back the stability issue for KP....but if Jeff is not the right coach the correct move is to find the right one...

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10/22/2017 6:58 AM

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It's a 2 way street. I want to see him excel and stay healthy for an extended stretch before we give him $150 mil.

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10/22/2017 7:01 AM

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mlby1215 wrote:KP will not leave. The one will leave is our future first round picks and Willy,
A star does not need to actually leave to force his prez/gm. KP just needs to knock on Dolan's door and says, "Mills doesn't help me. Please find someone else."
The authority is already broken. Mills doesn't have 13 rings (he wasn'tt even a NBA player), of course he knows what to do to survive. He has to "help" KP and his window. KP is not here to tank for anyone. He probably thought by skipping exit meeting it would make the team better.
At the end, at the worst case. Knicks could turns into old Knicks (capped, throwing picks for some useless instant help )and KP could turn into new Melo (no help, fight and die alone)
Currently, our only hope is Mills. Without Phil Jackson holding his back, Mills finally can draft and sign some very good players now.

Future 1st are not leaving...that's ridiculous...why??? The knicks are not a dumpster fire and Dolan is not pushing buttons....I saw Miles Bridges saying the other day that he would love to play for NYK...folks were hot for him on these boards before he pullled out of the draft....Willy may leave if we truly put our eggs with Kanter...but this is not Phil stupid that is why when you see this situation coming you trade an asset while you have a thing called leverage...the only leverage Willy has is KP having his back...which is a lot of leverage but at the end of the day they could get a nice piece for him if it comes to that

mlby1215
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10/22/2017 8:12 AM

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A player is an asset of his team. I see no wrong if the return is good for the team. What can we do now? If he wants to walk, he can walk away for nothing. People think he wants to be here and tank for 5 years and allow us collecting picks?

People have to understand players does NOT want to tank. KP does NOT want to tank. Only thing we can do now is to give him the super max contract and beg him. I don't think Phil Jackson really wanted to trade him but obviously he didn't think he was unmovable. The reason? Because KP was angry for unknown reason at the time. What could Phil do? Wait until the contract was up? What if KP wouldn't want to re-sign? He has already said he had to "protect the organization". Like it or not. Phil tried to protect Knicks, and he died for it.

Even a bag of chips is better than nothing.

mlby1215
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10/22/2017 8:31 AM LAST EDITED: 10/22/2017 8:32 AM

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No one wants to trade away first round picks if he has choice. Do we have choice? You don't need to tell me about how stupid Phil was. I just want to know what we could do now? We have to use our assets to bring in more help.

What are assets?
1. Caps. It is already gone. Mills gave it to THjr.
2. Young core. Nitti or Willy. We have too many bigs and Willy will be the victim just because he is very valuable and very expendable at the same time.
3. First round picks. I don't want to do it. Mill doesn't want to do it. No one wants to do it. But if you were Mills and you were about to lose your job. What would you do? First picks or your job? The choice is clear.

I am sorry, now you can go on your rants about Phil, if it makes you feel better.

ekstarks94 wrote:
mlby1215 wrote:KP will not leave. The one will leave is our future first round picks and Willy,
A star does not need to actually leave to force his prez/gm. KP just needs to knock on Dolan's door and says, "Mills doesn't help me. Please find someone else."
The authority is already broken. Mills doesn't have 13 rings (he wasn'tt even a NBA player), of course he knows what to do to survive. He has to "help" KP and his window. KP is not here to tank for anyone. He probably thought by skipping exit meeting it would make the team better.
At the end, at the worst case. Knicks could turns into old Knicks (capped, throwing picks for some useless instant help )and KP could turn into new Melo (no help, fight and die alone)
Currently, our only hope is Mills. Without Phil Jackson holding his back, Mills finally can draft and sign some very good players now.

Future 1st are not leaving...that's ridiculous...why??? The knicks are not a dumpster fire and Dolan is not pushing buttons....I saw Miles Bridges saying the other day that he would love to play for NYK...folks were hot for him on these boards before he pullled out of the draft....Willy may leave if we truly put our eggs with Kanter...but this is not Phil stupid that is why when you see this situation coming you trade an asset while you have a thing called leverage...the only leverage Willy has is KP having his back...which is a lot of leverage but at the end of the day they could get a nice piece for him if it comes to that

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KP still wants to see growth before sign extension.

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