See the gory details on how brain dead Melo and Rose are.....

BigDaddyG wrote:In summary: The Knicks offensive flow sucked because Melo was too selfish and Rose is too dumb.

And we ran barely ran the triangle anyway, and yet it seems to be the source of all our problems. Our problems are dumb and selfish players. From the video, one of the few times we ran the triangle effectively was with Ron Baker, Hernangomez, and our other young players... Melo is just flat out too lazy to get to proper position low on the block, and Rose is too dumb to recognize what to do.

knickstorrents wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:In summary: The Knicks offensive flow sucked because Melo was too selfish and Rose is too dumb.

And we ran barely ran the triangle anyway, and yet it seems to be the source of all our problems. Our problems are dumb and selfish players. From the video, one of the few times we ran the triangle effectively was with Ron Baker, Hernangomez, and our other young players... Melo is just flat out too lazy to get to proper position low on the block, and Rose is too dumb to recognize what to do.

Yeah, it amazes how easily people get stuck on a narrative, when they all they need to do is watch the games. The triangle was the least of our problems last season. Any who watched a handful of games can see that. Phil was standoffish to the media and Melo has a solid relationship with the media. I'm not saying Phil should've stayed. I'm just saying some of these storylines we're manufactured and ridiculous. The triangle is horrible? How come it looked effective when our less talented players enter game? The GSW and Spurs incorporate alot of the same reads and they look fluid. Our star player didn't buy into the team, on offense or defense. That was the main problem. It didn't matter what offensive system we used. I probably shouldn't single out Melo's defense, since that's an issue that extends up to the coaching staff. But I don't think to Thibodeau would made a difference in Melo's attitude.

Clean wrote: Trading for Rose was one of Phils most puzzling decisions.

I actually think it makes a ton of sense .... if you only look at it from what serves/served Phil Jackson best ( and not what was best for the entire team and franchise)

Phil Jackson THOUGHT he was getting the keys to the kingdom. Elder Buss died, he was going to marry the daughter, and since the daughter only ran the business side, he'd have de facto control of one of the league's signature franchises. The crown jewel. Instead that's not how the power game played out, and he took a soft landing and soft retirement in NY. If he failed, which was likely, he could blame Dolan and the "Clumsy Roster"

The trade for Rose and signing Noah IMHO were moves from a guy wanting to get to the 8th seed for ONE YEAR, at the COST OF THE NEXT FOUR TO FIVE YEARS, because he wouldn't be there to eat the cost later. He wanted to say he made the playoffs and that would salve some of the hit to his legacy at the end of his career. But his legacy and wealth was already established before he came to NY.

Jackson was no less selfish with personnel than Melo was selfish with the ball on the court. They BOTH needed to go.

There is no way in hell that trading for Rose and signing Noah would approximate good market based decisions. Any entry level NBA intern could see the ticking timebomb in those decisions the day they happened.

Melo doesn't give a **** about the Knicks
Jackson didn't give a **** about the Knicks.

This is what happens in bad franchises, everyone has an agenda except just doing what is right for the long term good for winning. Sam Hinkie did it, and he got shamed, attacked in public and canned for it.

Bill Parcells said it best, you can do your job, or you try to keep your job, but doing your job means you are taking risks that might end up costing you the job overall, but you can't think like that. You have to focus on winning.

Looking back, firing Phil doesn't accomplish anything. You love melo but he wants to go away. You love KP but actually he hates his coach not Phil. So? The only thing we have done is to help Mills comes out to the top.

mlby1215 wrote:The most horrible thing is that no one in NY media talked about it before. 5% of offense was triangle but it was the fault. They only wanted a way to kill off Phil Jackson and we HELPED them. So now the skipped exit meeting was not related to Melo and Phil at all? But does anyone from NY media come out and apologize? Of course not because they knew it could be wrong but why not use that way to damage Phil? As fans we totally got everything wrong and we pressured and pressured then everything broke and now we can lose more this season, ok?

Looking back, firing Phil doesn't accomplish anything. You love melo but he wants to go away. You love KP but actually he hates his coach not Phil. So? The only thing we have done is to help Mills comes out to the top.

IMO I'm fine with Phil going. He pretty much did all he was needed for in terms of directing the building of young talent. Phil's best work was adding Gaines and setting the parameters for the kind of players this team would build with. He was not able to get anything done via Free Agency.

Mills was able to watch and learn from Phil both good and bad. Now he has a much clearer vision and his hiring Perry is a good sign he did learn what not to do and the importance of a capable and liked GM who has relationships.

nixluva wrote:

mlby1215 wrote:The most horrible thing is that no one in NY media talked about it before. 5% of offense was triangle but it was the fault. They only wanted a way to kill off Phil Jackson and we HELPED them. So now the skipped exit meeting was not related to Melo and Phil at all? But does anyone from NY media come out and apologize? Of course not because they knew it could be wrong but why not use that way to damage Phil? As fans we totally got everything wrong and we pressured and pressured then everything broke and now we can lose more this season, ok?

Looking back, firing Phil doesn't accomplish anything. You love melo but he wants to go away. You love KP but actually he hates his coach not Phil. So? The only thing we have done is to help Mills comes out to the top.

IMO I'm fine with Phil going. He pretty much did all he was needed for in terms of directing the building of young talent. Phil's best work was adding Gaines and setting the parameters for the kind of players this team would build with. He was not able to get anything done via Free Agency.

Mills was able to watch and learn from Phil both good and bad. Now he has a much clearer vision and his hiring Perry is a good sign he did learn what not to do and the importance of a capable and liked GM who has relationships.

I am not fine with Phil firing, especially not three days before free agents signing. I would rather Knicks keep its cool and find his replacement in 2 years. He would be gone anyway when he was 73.

I really don't think how Mills would do the good things you have mentioned. It is not that Phil is the best, but do we have better choice? You really want Mills? I don't.

Mills did not choose Perry. It is just that other didn't want to come, but Perry did.

But I am not here to argue Phil is good or bad. I am here just to show how clueless we are, collectively. We destroyed Phil Jackson and then we hope the next one would follow his way? Mills would not that stupid.

I am really speechless. We did something based on some rumors and then it turned out it is not true. So we try to make some excuses like "it is okay. he was not very good anyway"

This is why NY media played us like a fool. They disliked someone and we killed him, and we call ourselves loyal fans.

mlby1215 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

mlby1215 wrote:The most horrible thing is that no one in NY media talked about it before. 5% of offense was triangle but it was the fault. They only wanted a way to kill off Phil Jackson and we HELPED them. So now the skipped exit meeting was not related to Melo and Phil at all? But does anyone from NY media come out and apologize? Of course not because they knew it could be wrong but why not use that way to damage Phil? As fans we totally got everything wrong and we pressured and pressured then everything broke and now we can lose more this season, ok?

Looking back, firing Phil doesn't accomplish anything. You love melo but he wants to go away. You love KP but actually he hates his coach not Phil. So? The only thing we have done is to help Mills comes out to the top.

IMO I'm fine with Phil going. He pretty much did all he was needed for in terms of directing the building of young talent. Phil's best work was adding Gaines and setting the parameters for the kind of players this team would build with. He was not able to get anything done via Free Agency.

Mills was able to watch and learn from Phil both good and bad. Now he has a much clearer vision and his hiring Perry is a good sign he did learn what not to do and the importance of a capable and liked GM who has relationships.

I am not fine with Phil firing, especially not three days before free agents signing. I would rather Knicks keep its cool and find his replacement in 2 years. He would be gone anyway when he was 73.

I really don't think how Mills would do the good things you have mentioned. It is not that Phil is the best, but do we have better choice? You really want Mills? I don't.

Mills did not choose Perry. It is just that other didn't want to come, but Perry did.

But I am not here to argue Phil is good or bad. I am here just to show how clueless we are, collectively. We destroyed Phil Jackson and then we hope the next one would follow his way? Mills would not that stupid.

I am really speechless. We did something based on some rumors and then it turned out it is not true. So we try to make some excuses like "it is okay. he was not very good anyway"

This is why NY media played us like a fool. They disliked someone and we killed him, and we call ourselves loyal fans.

Well Mills kept most of what Phil put in place including Gaines! Mills did the right thing adding Perry and Mills has been trying to turn the heat down on the fires Phil had going. Now it's more focused on Basketball despite Media attempts to get negativity going again.

The Media played NY Fans but Phil gave the Media so much to work with. Phil was his own worst enemy.
Mills seems to be continuing much of Phil's philosophies but minus the drama.