According to Wojnarowski's report, "With the Cleveland-Miami history, there's little chance for a deal unless the Heat offered an overwhelming package."

TripleThreat wrote:Gamesmanship

Cleveland was caught in a bad position here. They are asking for the moon to try to get a moderate offer in the end. They want the lowball to drive the price to the middle, where if they started on moderate terms, they'd just get lowballed into the ground.

Irving is refusing to talk to the Cavs, so they are pretty much forced to trade him at this point.

Did he learn that tactic from KP?

I don't think teams will pay up that much.
To make the deal today, it would take Melo plus two first round picks.
Could we get an additional first round pick using Lee to a third team? Maybe.
If we really pushed, I think we could get it done.
Melo, 2018 pick (protected top 10, top 7 for 2019, top 5 for 2020) and another late first round pick from 2018 by sending Lee to a playoff contender.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks gave up a lot for a 26 year old super star. Getting a guy that talented at 25-26 is a huge get for any team. But the Knicks were never able to build a team around him. Assets given up, bad signings, systems that don't suit the roster etc. The Knicks are not a team that should chase Kyrie.

well melo i dont think you could build around unless we got a better player so melo could be the 2nd guy which fits him better.as for irving as talented as he is its not worth giving updates a kings ransom for

Knicks must agree with you since no deal is done. Knicks could offer a package but clearly Perry is not looking to repeat a Melo from Denver type deal.

I actually don't think any team will do that. I think that Melo deal has been a warning to the league not to do King's Ransom deals.

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks gave up a lot for a 26 year old super star. Getting a guy that talented at 25-26 is a huge get for any team. But the Knicks were never able to build a team around him. Assets given up, bad signings, systems that don't suit the roster etc. The Knicks are not a team that should chase Kyrie.

well melo i dont think you could build around unless we got a better player so melo could be the 2nd guy which fits him better.as for irving as talented as he is its not worth giving updates a kings ransom for

Knicks must agree with you since no deal is done. Knicks could offer a package but clearly Perry is not looking to repeat a Melo from Denver type deal.

I actually don't think any team will do that. I think that Melo deal has been a warning to the league not to do King's Ransom deals.

BRIGGS wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:They are asking for two first round picks on top of a player or group of players that can play for them.
Sort of like what we were for Kristaps.
Can't blame them, he is their KP for them. Drafted franchise level talent.

I don't think teams will pay up that much.
To make the deal today, it would take Melo plus two first round picks.
Could we get an additional first round pick using Lee to a third team? Maybe.
If we really pushed, I think we could get it done.
Melo, 2018 pick (protected top 10, top 7 for 2019, top 5 for 2020) and another late first round pick from 2018 by sending Lee to a playoff contender.

I think the cost is 2 low restriction # 1s. A willy g and Carmello -- that's what Riley intimated

Heat said no to drag ic and winslow

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks gave up a lot for a 26 year old super star. Getting a guy that talented at 25-26 is a huge get for any team. But the Knicks were never able to build a team around him. Assets given up, bad signings, systems that don't suit the roster etc. The Knicks are not a team that should chase Kyrie.

well melo i dont think you could build around unless we got a better player so melo could be the 2nd guy which fits him better.as for irving as talented as he is its not worth giving updates a kings ransom for

Knicks must agree with you since no deal is done. Knicks could offer a package but clearly Perry is not looking to repeat a Melo from Denver type deal.

I actually don't think any team will do that. I think that Melo deal has been a warning to the league not to do King's Ransom deals.

For all that talk of the melo deal, the package nj gave for dwill was way better.

newyorknewyork wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks gave up a lot for a 26 year old super star. Getting a guy that talented at 25-26 is a huge get for any team. But the Knicks were never able to build a team around him. Assets given up, bad signings, systems that don't suit the roster etc. The Knicks are not a team that should chase Kyrie.

well melo i dont think you could build around unless we got a better player so melo could be the 2nd guy which fits him better.as for irving as talented as he is its not worth giving updates a kings ransom for

Knicks must agree with you since no deal is done. Knicks could offer a package but clearly Perry is not looking to repeat a Melo from Denver type deal.

I actually don't think any team will do that. I think that Melo deal has been a warning to the league not to do King's Ransom deals.

if its for a elite level player then i understand but melo just wasnt that type of player. I think the other poster was saying that it was the knicks fault but the reality is melo is what he is. Irving might not be that type of player either

The deal for Melo wasn't great but it isn't as bad as people make it out to be either. Anthony Randolph, Felton, Chandler, Gallinari, Moz, a future first and a right to swap for Melo and Billups who turned into Tyson.

Randolph was used to dump Eddy Curry's contract to the Wolves, Felton and a right to swap was used to land Billups who was viewed as the better player even if older and held an expiring, Melo was swapped for Chandler, Gallo, Moz and a future pick.

The problem is the combination of moves pre Melo trade, Melo trade, & post Melo trade. All of that *combined* lead the Knicks to grid lock.

EnySpree wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks gave up a lot for a 26 year old super star. Getting a guy that talented at 25-26 is a huge get for any team. But the Knicks were never able to build a team around him. Assets given up, bad signings, systems that don't suit the roster etc. The Knicks are not a team that should chase Kyrie.

It's 2017... we just hired 2 new guys to be the gm and assistant gm....

Is it possible to finally get out right? Truth is they got it wrong for all the reasons you said. What if this new rebuilding with 25 and under guys and playing to the strengths of the roster thing they are preaching actually works?

StarksEwing1 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:The Knicks gave up a lot for a 26 year old super star. Getting a guy that talented at 25-26 is a huge get for any team. But the Knicks were never able to build a team around him. Assets given up, bad signings, systems that don't suit the roster etc. The Knicks are not a team that should chase Kyrie.

well melo i dont think you could build around unless we got a better player so melo could be the 2nd guy which fits him better.as for irving as talented as he is its not worth giving updates a kings ransom for

Knicks must agree with you since no deal is done. Knicks could offer a package but clearly Perry is not looking to repeat a Melo from Denver type deal.

I actually don't think any team will do that. I think that Melo deal has been a warning to the league not to do King's Ransom deals.

if its for a elite level player then i understand but melo just wasnt that type of player. I think the other poster was saying that it was the knicks fault but the reality is melo is what he is. Irving might not be that type of player either

The deal for Melo wasn't great but it isn't as bad as people make it out to be either. Anthony Randolph, Felton, Chandler, Gallinari, Moz, a future first and a right to swap for Melo and Billups who turned into Tyson.

Randolph was used to dump Eddy Curry's contract to the Wolves, Felton and a right to swap was used to land Billups who was viewed as the better player even if older and held an expiring, Melo was swapped for Chandler, Gallo, Moz and a future pick.

The problem is the combination of moves pre Melo trade, Melo trade, & post Melo trade. All of that *combined* lead the Knicks to grid lock.

You're right in hindsight about what we gave up BUT we still gave up most of our assets which hurts you unless you are getting a real elite level player with a overall game. Melo is/was a great scorer ive never disputed that. HOWEVER he just doesnt ahve the overall game that elevates other players. I just think Melo fits better playing with a better player and he can just focus on the scoring.

All phases hurt. Knicks gave up multiple up multiple assets pre Melo trade. Knicks picked up the option on Billups expiring in April and then amnestied him in Dec. When if they saved the amnesty for Amare's potential knees failing and let Billups walk as a FA. They could have freed up close to 40 mil in cap space and built a team that could have lasted for 5 years.

Now if your saying the Knicks should stay away from Melo regardless of price because he would end up bringing the Knicks down regardless due to his selfishness then that would be another topic. But trading for Melo shouldn't be isolated from the yrs of poor decisions prior and post.