CrushAlot wrote:It would be great if Mills and Jeff are working together.

Hornacek is spineless and Mills is a Dolan yes man we'll be fortunate if both of these guys have as little say in the knicks' future as possible

newyorknewyork wrote:We don't really talk about him much in this light. The more I think about it the more it makes sense though. I don't think Mills looks to lock in Baker without JH being adamant about it. I can see JH pushing for the Hardaway signing as it seems like a player who would play well withing JH's style. And I can see JH being vocal to Mills about moving on from Melo. I doubt if JH was begging for Mills to keep Melo that they would be looking to move him this hard unless a no brainier deal fell in their lap. Moving on from Melo would give JH full control of the young team. Mills isn't a bball mind but JH is and my guess is Mills is leaning A LOT on JH's opinion on all these decisions. Which may not be a bad thing at all.
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=56976&page=12
The alternative is Mills is making all these decisions and JH is only working with what Mills gives him. But I don't believe that.

This has been the constant so I tend to believe that's the case. I'd really hope JH has some input but did Phil castrate him by forcing the Triangle? This FO doesn't allow their GM's and coaches to work towards their own vision, or least I haven't seen it yet. I don't think Phil ever thought much of Melo outside of being a scorer, and think Phil wouldn't have re-signed Melo if he had final say, they're all forced to work with what they have.

Dagger wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It would be great if Mills and Jeff are working together.

Hornacek is spineless and Mills is a Dolan yes man we'll be fortunate if both of these guys have as little say in the knicks' future as possible

Nalod wrote:
Is Jeff pulling the strings? He should be pulling them WITH Mills.

I don't think JH is actually negotiating the contracts or contacting agents and other GMS so its obvious that they have to work together. But is Mills doing the leg work for JH's vision is what I'm thinking.

nixluva wrote:Jeff has his input i'm sure. The strange thing is that since the Knicks allowed Phil to do the draft and UDFA's they had to have some agreement on the kind of players Phil would choose. I can't believe that they just suddenly decided Phil had to go AFTER the draft and were completely in disagreement on his philosophy about which players to draft and sign. There was no logic to the timing.

So Mills, Jeff and likely Gaines approve of the players Phil brought in. It's not just NOW that they'd be listening to Jeff. However, Mills probably did disagree with Phil about a player like THJ. I'm pretty sure the whole staff disagreed with Phil's pugnacious stance towards Melo and KP, with the exception of Rambis maybe.

Don't be surprised if Jeff still runs Triangle as a Halfcourt set unless he calls for something else. It's a nice fallback so that everyone knows what to do. Plus the team is pretty much setup for it already due to Phil's picks. Also Rambis is still here which seems to indicate they'll possibly still use some Triangle. I'd also expect to see some HORNS sets from Jeff. He can whip out the entire arsenal now.

IMO its more than just input. IMO he sold Mills on Baker which is why Mills felt comfortable giving him the 2 years 9mil. I don't think Mills offered that contract based on his own intuition on Baker as a prospect. Baker is a guy that JH believes he can develop and trust to execute what JH wants.

Same with Hardaway jr. I don't see Mills taking a risk like. The safe thing for Mills to have done this off season would be just to sign Rondo and keep Melo. But by moving Melo, JH stands to gain control of the team. Then he has Baker to be *his guy* that he can trust. Hardaway Jr is a young athletic guard with potential that JH might feel he can take to another level with his style. Like he did with Gerald Green.

fishmike wrote:

Dagger wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It would be great if Mills and Jeff are working together.

Hornacek is spineless and Mills is a Dolan yes man we'll be fortunate if both of these guys have as little say in the knicks' future as possible

what are you basing that on?????

1) Not sitting Melo at the end of last season when it was clear we should have been in full tank mode (couldn't say NO to the "star")
2) No discipline for Rose going MIA (this is phil's fault as well)
3) Culture of disrespect in the lockerroom throughout the season (ex. Courtney Lee social media post, never got on Rose for freezing out KP, players questioned his schemes and how much power he had, team often came out looking like trash in the third quarter which is a clue that this guy either was making incorrect adjustments or not able to get players to execute properly
4) KP wouldn't even return this guy's texts over the summer, I don't care whether KP was mad at Phil or not, if he respected Hornacek and valued him as a coach he would not have blown him off like that. Then once Phil is gone Hornacek kisses KP's ass and tries to make nice even though KP still has not contacted him
5) The in-fighting in Phoenix where Hornacek let players walk all over him, hence why he was out of a job in the first place

fishmike wrote:

Dagger wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Dagger wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:It would be great if Mills and Jeff are working together.

Hornacek is spineless and Mills is a Dolan yes man we'll be fortunate if both of these guys have as little say in the knicks' future as possible

what are you basing that on?????

1) Not sitting Melo at the end of last season when it was clear we should have been in full tank mode (couldn't say NO to the "star")
2) No discipline for Rose going MIA (this is phil's fault as well)
3) Culture of disrespect in the lockerroom throughout the season (ex. Courtney Lee social media post, never got on Rose for freezing out KP, players questioned his schemes and how much power he had, team often came out looking like trash in the third quarter which is a clue that this guy either was making incorrect adjustments or not able to get players to execute properly
4) KP wouldn't even return this guy's texts over the summer, I don't care whether KP was mad at Phil or not, if he respected Hornacek and valued him as a coach he would not have blown him off like that. Then once Phil is gone Hornacek kisses KP's ass and tries to make nice even though KP still has not contacted him
5) The in-fighting in Phoenix where Hornacek let players walk all over him, hence why he was out of a job in the first place

1) coaches dont tank. You are suggesting he should have been losing on purpose and then critizing him for it? Yea no.
2) That is 100% on Phil to suspend him. If Rose did something in game its different. Thats a team violation.
3) What is your expectation? Tell Courntey your benching him until his instagram is more pro-Knicks?
4) That makes him spineless? If I dont return your texts is that on me or you?
5) That is pretty much why every coach gets fired and this is the NBA

1) Who says coaches don't tank? Plenty of Coaches have tanked in the NBA and will continue to do so, they just don't come out and say so. If a coach is instructed by management to tank they know it will not affect their job security.

Also, asking Hornacek to play melo reduced minutes in the last couple games of a season is not asking much, it gives the young players a last chance to impress and lets melo rest after a long season so that he doesn't injure himself in meaningless games. Not a ridiculous thing to expect from Hornacek at all IMO.

2) Yes, it was really phils responsibility to suspend Rose, but hornacek allowed it to happen and as far as we know he never had a talk with Rose where he confronted him about it. I think Rose should have at the very least played sparingly the next game, and I do think it was in Hornacek's power to make that type of decision, but alas, no public message was sent that the behavior was unacceptable.

3-4)I think we have a misunderstanding with these, the main point I am making is not that hornacek himself should have punished the players for these actions, it's that he fostered a culture of disrespect that enabled this type of behavior to happen in the first place.

5)When a coach is fired because he cannot control his team this is always a valid concern to raise. Don't see why it matters that other coaches got fired for this, it's not a good look regardless. Yes, good coaches have been fired before because a team stopped listening to them, but this is usually catalyzed by a star pulling a me-or-him situation, Hornacek was overpowered by pedestrian players, players that normally would not have the cache to oust a coach who actually had the team's respect.

I can name a ton of Knicks higher than him on the food chain which includes some players he's supposed to have authority over.