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Question: If we are OK with buying out our best player. Why a not buy out broken down Noah?
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HofstraBBall
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7/6/2017  3:02 PM
I agree thats its best for Melo to go. Dont agree with Dolan giving us season ticket holders another complete rebuild with low draft D league type players. As that will not be fun to watch. Except for guys hoping they can compare their YMCA games to the pro players on the court. (Two hand passes and great pick setting.)

But if we are okay buying out our best player. Not getting anything in return and keeping him on the books. Why are we not buying Noah out? Real question. Eventhough we wont care about cap space, how does he add to the team? Cant we use some of that money saved to get Frank a better tutor?

I WAS hoping for a Dennis Smith pick(NBA ready and steal). Nothing against Frank but he is a project at best. Re sign Holiday as he was cheap and gave us great two way play off the bench. Sign a mid level point guard vet that can shoot the 3. And one more wing defender. Then if we are not playing well by trade deadline, dump Melo, who I think will have a better year and will be in higher demand by trade deadline. Dump Lee as every playoff team needs that kind of player. And start trading role players (LT, KO) for future draft picks. Again, playoff teams want to bolster their bench.

But like I said, at this point it looks like we are starting a complete rebuild from day 1. Hopefully Melo will get a chance to be in the playoffs. And we can get something in return. But feel next thing to do is dump Lee, KO. Trade role guys for future picks and.......reduce my share of games for next years season. Just hope it doesnt take us as long as Philly, Minny, Phoenix and Sac town. Who are still waiting.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
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Vmart
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7/6/2017  3:03 PM
Noah doesn't take 20 shots Melo does.
Bonn1997
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7/6/2017  3:04 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/6/2017  3:04 PM
Didn't Phil re-sign because Dolan wouldn't buy out Melo? Hopefully we're not buying out Melo unless he gives up like 85% of his salary (which he won't).
Nalod
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7/6/2017  3:12 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:I agree thats its best for Melo to go. Dont agree with Dolan giving us season ticket holders another complete rebuild with low draft D league type players. As that will not be fun to watch. Except for guys hoping they can compare their YMCA games to the pro players on the court. (Two hand passes and great pick setting.)

But if we are okay buying out our best player. Not getting anything in return and keeping him on the books. Why are we not buying Noah out? Real question. Eventhough we wont care about cap space, how does he add to the team? Cant we use some of that money saved to get Frank a better tutor?

I WAS hoping for a Dennis Smith pick(NBA ready and steal). Nothing against Frank but he is a project at best. Re sign Holiday as he was cheap and gave us great two way play off the bench. Sign a mid level point guard vet that can shoot the 3. And one more wing defender. Then if we are not playing well by trade deadline, dump Melo, who I think will have a better year and will be in higher demand by trade deadline. Dump Lee as every playoff team needs that kind of player. And start trading role players (LT, KO) for future draft picks. Again, playoff teams want to bolster their bench.

But like I said, at this point it looks like we are starting a complete rebuild from day 1. Hopefully Melo will get a chance to be in the playoffs. And we can get something in return. But feel next thing to do is dump Lee, KO. Trade role guys for future picks and.......reduce my share of games for next years season. Just hope it doesnt take us as long as Philly, Minny, Phoenix and Sac town. Who are still waiting.

Just go with it. Its July 6th. Much time before season starts. Your already amped and its summer.
Im sure one of Monk or Smith will shine next year and you'll be ready! Fact is, lets talk in three years in hindsight and see what becomes.
KP once he learns to bark might be really special, or he might be shawn Bradley. We don't know.
Team is now KP's.
fishmike
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7/6/2017  3:19 PM
yea... I mean this is kind of self explanatory no?

Good Melo: takes tons of shots. Holds ball. Makes some plays. Dominates offense. Hits big shots.
Bad Melo: takes tons of shots. Holds ball. Makes some plays. Dominates offense. Hits big shots.

Good Noah: Moves ball, elite passing big man, great defender, excellent rebounder, doesnt need ball to be effective.
Bad Noah: Moves ball, elite passing big man, great defender, excellent rebounder, doesnt need ball to be effective.

Pretty simple. Bad Melo is a team cancer and a coach killer. Bad Noah is just not a good basketball player, but has no negative impact on the team.

Noah's contract stinks, but he's either dead weight or he helps us. Bad Melo will hurt the youth development and as he's disgruntled will seek allies and be a divisive force. That is the downside which we have seen on more than one occasion. Can the Knick's afford that?

I dont know what the right play is... but I do know there is a clear downside/backfire to Melo that doesnt exist with Noah.

Noah has a lot of pride. I expect him to be able to help, if only in a limited role. Ideally we start him next to KP, he's a ball mover, defender and a ton setter and we get 65-70 games and 18-20mpg from him. If we get that you will see the positives he brings.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
SocraticBallin22
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7/6/2017  3:24 PM
I agree. The stretch provision buyout should be used on Noah's contract, not Melo's. Noah's contract is longer and he has zero value as a player right now, with the possible exception of team leadership. I believe Melo can be traded in a 3 team deal.
meloshouldgo
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7/6/2017  3:36 PM
When healthy Noah plays up to 60% of his salary value, his attitude, leadership and team play brimgs his value up to 85% of his salary

When Melo manages to play up to 75% of the value of his salary, his attitude, leadership and team play our lack thereof brings his value down to 40% of his salary.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Bonn1997
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7/6/2017  4:48 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:When healthy Noah plays up to 60% of his salary value, his attitude, leadership and team play brimgs his value up to 85% of his salary

When Melo manages to play up to 75% of the value of his salary, his attitude, leadership and team play our lack thereof brings his value down to 40% of his salary.

OK but then Noah is healthy like half as often as Melo. So the math doesn't work!
HofstraBBall
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7/6/2017  5:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/6/2017  5:22 PM
fishmike wrote:yea... I mean this is kind of self explanatory no?

Good Melo: takes tons of shots. Holds ball. Makes some plays. Dominates offense. Hits big shots.
Bad Melo: takes tons of shots. Holds ball. Makes some plays. Dominates offense. Hits big shots.

Good Noah: Moves ball, elite passing big man, great defender, excellent rebounder, doesnt need ball to be effective.
Bad Noah: Moves ball, elite passing big man, great defender, excellent rebounder, doesnt need ball to be effective.

Pretty simple. Bad Melo is a team cancer and a coach killer. Bad Noah is just not a good basketball player, but has no negative impact on the team.

Noah's contract stinks, but he's either dead weight or he helps us. Bad Melo will hurt the youth development and as he's disgruntled will seek allies and be a divisive force. That is the downside which we have seen on more than one occasion. Can the Knick's afford that?

I dont know what the right play is... but I do know there is a clear downside/backfire to Melo that doesnt exist with Noah.

Noah has a lot of pride. I expect him to be able to help, if only in a limited role. Ideally we start him next to KP, he's a ball mover, defender and a ton setter and we get 65-70 games and 18-20mpg from him. If we get that you will see the positives he brings.

'self explanatory if your using that type of bias. We both know you have supported Noah since the begining and somehow still find a way to say he is a positive. Just not a fact in any way. Noah has had minimal or no impact during the last 3 seasons. To expect him to change that is low probability. Again, how does he help us in the locker room? By letting everyone sign the get well soon cards? We can get several vets at vets minimum to take that role. Btw, your saying Melo will hurt the youth movement but in the next paragraph you placing Noah in the starting line up over Willy?

As for Melo. Fact is, there are no players on this team nor recent teams claiming Melo is a "cancer to the team? He is a guy that leads us in scoring every year. Is one year removed from leading us in dimes and scoring. Does he hold the ball? Yes Does he force it at times? Yes. Best defender? No. Should he be considered for a buyout and not Noah? No way.

Truth is, neither would be or should be bought out by a smart team. As your getting no value. Reason why i am saying, if they really are considering being that stupid, why not Noah? Reason I had a problem with Phil suggesting it and yet pushing his free agent dud behind the curtain.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
newyorknewyork
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7/6/2017  5:06 PM
Noah shouldnt be a buyout candidate until he has one year left on his deal. Same for Melo.
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ekstarks94
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7/6/2017  5:10 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:Why are we not buying Noah out?

Not carrying his cap charge for 3 more years...
HofstraBBall
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7/6/2017  5:17 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:When healthy Noah plays up to 60% of his salary value, his attitude, leadership and team play brimgs his value up to 85% of his salary

When Melo manages to play up to 75% of the value of his salary, his attitude, leadership and team play our lack thereof brings his value down to 40% of his salary.

Coming from you? yeah your probably right...

Noah Actual $18M Market $5

So how much do you think Melo is worth (Cant wait)
Millsap just got $30M per
Teague $19M
Ibaka $22M
Patti Mills $19
Gallinari $22

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
Nalod
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7/6/2017  5:35 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:When healthy Noah plays up to 60% of his salary value, his attitude, leadership and team play brimgs his value up to 85% of his salary

When Melo manages to play up to 75% of the value of his salary, his attitude, leadership and team play our lack thereof brings his value down to 40% of his salary.

Coming from you? yeah your probably right...

Noah Actual $18M Market $5

So how much do you think Melo is worth (Cant wait)
Millsap just got $30M per
Teague $19M
Ibaka $22M
Patti Mills $19
Gallinari $22

so another team should see Melo as a bargain and make it happen!!!!!
Vmart
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7/6/2017  5:36 PM
The real reason the Knicks want to buy out Melo is because of sabotage. No other reason has nothing to do with him being the most talented player or anything of sort.
meloshouldgo
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7/6/2017  5:43 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/6/2017  5:45 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:When healthy Noah plays up to 60% of his salary value, his attitude, leadership and team play brimgs his value up to 85% of his salary

When Melo manages to play up to 75% of the value of his salary, his attitude, leadership and team play our lack thereof brings his value down to 40% of his salary.

OK but then Noah is healthy like half as often as Melo. So the math doesn't work!

The question was why Melo and why not Noah, the answer was
Melo's value = (1.0*40%*25.0MM) - 25.0MM = -15 MM/year
Noah's value = (0.5*85%*13.5MM) - 13.5MM = -7.8MM/year approx
Assuming Noah plays only 41 games each season on avg and Melo plays 82

Melo is about twice as bad as Noah each year

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
Bonn1997
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7/6/2017  5:52 PM
meloshouldgo wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:When healthy Noah plays up to 60% of his salary value, his attitude, leadership and team play brimgs his value up to 85% of his salary

When Melo manages to play up to 75% of the value of his salary, his attitude, leadership and team play our lack thereof brings his value down to 40% of his salary.

OK but then Noah is healthy like half as often as Melo. So the math doesn't work!

The question was why Melo and why not Noah, the answer was
Melo's value = (1.0*40%*25.0MM) - 25.0MM = -15 MM/year
Noah's value = (0.5*85%*13.5MM) - 13.5MM = -7.8MM/year approx
Assuming Noah plays only 41 games each season on avg and Melo plays 82

Melo is about twice as bad as Noah each year

I'm not sure where you're getting these numbers from. It sounds like you're just making them up. Noah's probably worth about $4 mil and Melo $10 mil a season IMO. So they're both terrible contracts and neither can or should be bought out right now.
HofstraBBall
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7/6/2017  5:59 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/6/2017  6:03 PM
Nalod wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:When healthy Noah plays up to 60% of his salary value, his attitude, leadership and team play brimgs his value up to 85% of his salary

When Melo manages to play up to 75% of the value of his salary, his attitude, leadership and team play our lack thereof brings his value down to 40% of his salary.

Coming from you? yeah your probably right...

Noah Actual $18M Market $5

So how much do you think Melo is worth (Cant wait)
Millsap just got $30M per
Teague $19M
Ibaka $22M
Patti Mills $19
Gallinari $22

so another team should see Melo as a bargain and make it happen!!!!!

Trade kicker hurts. And only 2 teams know they have a chance. Problem for Knicks is that they are smart enough to realize the Knicks are in a weak bargaining position.

'Knicks focus should be on players that have grown up playing soccer or cricket' - Triplethreat 8/28/2020
reub
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7/6/2017  6:04 PM
Because Phil is really running the team from behind the curtain and Phil still loves Noah.
meloshouldgo
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7/6/2017  6:19 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:When healthy Noah plays up to 60% of his salary value, his attitude, leadership and team play brimgs his value up to 85% of his salary

When Melo manages to play up to 75% of the value of his salary, his attitude, leadership and team play our lack thereof brings his value down to 40% of his salary.

OK but then Noah is healthy like half as often as Melo. So the math doesn't work!

The question was why Melo and why not Noah, the answer was
Melo's value = (1.0*40%*25.0MM) - 25.0MM = -15 MM/year
Noah's value = (0.5*85%*13.5MM) - 13.5MM = -7.8MM/year approx
Assuming Noah plays only 41 games each season on avg and Melo plays 82

Melo is about twice as bad as Noah each year

I'm not sure where you're getting these numbers from. It sounds like you're just making them up. Noah's probably worth about $4 mil and Melo $10 mil a season IMO. So they're both terrible contracts and neither can or should be bought out right now.

Of course I am making them up, I am assigning numerical values to Melo's cancerous effect on the team and Noah's leadership. The problem with the way you look at it is inn terms of pure production and you completely ignore the negative impact of having a insubordinate malcontent in the locker room poisoning the youth movement. Unless you look at that any numbers you come up with are just as half assed.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
CrushAlot
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7/6/2017  6:43 PM
HofstraBBall wrote:
Nalod wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:When healthy Noah plays up to 60% of his salary value, his attitude, leadership and team play brimgs his value up to 85% of his salary

When Melo manages to play up to 75% of the value of his salary, his attitude, leadership and team play our lack thereof brings his value down to 40% of his salary.

Coming from you? yeah your probably right...

Noah Actual $18M Market $5

So how much do you think Melo is worth (Cant wait)
Millsap just got $30M per
Teague $19M
Ibaka $22M
Patti Mills $19
Gallinari $22

so another team should see Melo as a bargain and make it happen!!!!!

Trade kicker hurts. And only 2 teams know they have a chance. Problem for Knicks is that they are smart enough to realize the Knicks are in a weak bargaining position.

I have read a few times that he can waive the trade kicker with the new cba. I don't know if that changed July 1 because at the deadline there were a few very informative articles discussing situations where Melo could waive or not waive part of his trade kicker.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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Question: If we are OK with buying out our best player. Why a not buy out broken down Noah?
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