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Cavs and GSW proving Defesne does not win championships
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knicks1248
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6/12/2017  10:58 PM
you either going to give up rebounds and stop the fast break or Rebound (what the knicks do)and give up fast breaks and open 3's. If your not building a team to run and gun, you are done.

I think KP can be great at the CENTER, but willy is a expendable, he maybe a solid paint player, the problem is, no one's really playing in the paint. If phil is smart he will move willy for another pick thats a better fit for todays game. Keeping Noah, KP, Willy, KOQ, and Plumee is ridiculous in this day and age

ES
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TripleThreat
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6/13/2017  1:27 AM
The Cavs didn't play defense because they don't have the personnel to do so.

Love actually improved quite a bit and he shifted his game a ton to try to meld into a roster with LBJ and Irving. He's really not getting enough credit for modifying his game to try to help his team win.

The Warriors backed down on defense late in this series because the refs were committed to trying to get all the key Warriors into foul trouble to try to extend this series. The Warriors have the personnel to play good defense, they are just such a well balanced team they soft pedal it because the refs have a soft whistle and beat you in 35 other ways.

The Cavs plowed through a weak East, and let's not kid ourselves, compared to the West, it's a much softer ride to the Finals. The Warriors got there by destroying everyone in their path. They would not have gotten there without their defense.

Defense does win championships.

Defense however cannot defeat 8 on 5 rigging sponsored by Nike and whatever brand car that Blake Griffin is dunking over right now.
Gudris
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6/13/2017  4:46 AM
TripleThreat wrote:The Cavs didn't play defense because they don't have the personnel to do so.

Love actually improved quite a bit and he shifted his game a ton to try to meld into a roster with LBJ and Irving. He's really not getting enough credit for modifying his game to try to help his team win.

The Warriors backed down on defense late in this series because the refs were committed to trying to get all the key Warriors into foul trouble to try to extend this series. The Warriors have the personnel to play good defense, they are just such a well balanced team they soft pedal it because the refs have a soft whistle and beat you in 35 other ways.

The Cavs plowed through a weak East, and let's not kid ourselves, compared to the West, it's a much softer ride to the Finals. The Warriors got there by destroying everyone in their path. They would not have gotten there without their defense.

Defense does win championships.

Defense however cannot defeat 8 on 5 rigging sponsored by Nike and whatever brand car that Blake Griffin is dunking over right now.

They got lucky Kawhi got hurt
knickstorrents
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6/13/2017  4:51 AM
You need athletic, high IQ players that can read what the offense is doing and adjust appropriately. I would say defense is still important, but being a good defender is even more difficult. I will say one thing though - defending a team like Golden State is a lot more difficult than defending a team like the Cavs. Golden State just moves the ball so well and have so many offensive options you really need to read what they are doing, get into the passing lanes, and have athletic players on the perimeter to contest 3s. The Cavs have Lebron who is an extraordinary talent, but he doesn'y have enough around him. Kyrie being a score first point guard doesn't really help their situation.
Rose is not the answer.
Paris907
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6/13/2017  6:04 AM
After giving up 37 in the first quarter GS held cavs to 20 in the second plus jRs heroics last second heave. D MATTERS EHEN UOURE On A 20-2 run
Jmpasq
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6/13/2017  7:15 AM
knicks1248 wrote:you either going to give up rebounds and stop the fast break or Rebound (what the knicks do)and give up fast breaks and open 3's. If your not building a team to run and gun, you are done.

I think KP can be great at the CENTER, but willy is a expendable, he maybe a solid paint player, the problem is, no one's really playing in the paint. If phil is smart he will move willy for another pick thats a better fit for todays game. Keeping Noah, KP, Willy, KOQ, and Plumee is ridiculous in this day and age

It depends on what you are getting for him. I agree bad idea to play them together for to many minutes but Porzingis isnt going to be a 40 minute player , better off at 30. We can limit their minutes together. Unless we are getting a surefire starter at Forward whats the point

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yellowboy90
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6/13/2017  8:06 AM
Defense got them to the finals and helped them shut down most of the others for the Cavs on most nights.
fitzfarm
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6/13/2017  9:08 AM
Defense, what defense this was the softest most boring season yet. The NBA has to do something about it. The game has turned into fastbreaks and chucking. Take away the three point shot, and bring back forarm and hand checking. No zone defense also bring back illegal defense. I miss the grind and suspense the NBA created with good defense and tougher players... if the NBA was how it is today Jordan wouldn't be the greatest, Reggie miller would be the greatest ever. heck even Hubert Davis, and dell curry would be all stars in today's NBA .

The commish has to do something the NBA is so predictable you can pretty much call who is going to win a game in the first 3 minutes of play.
SupremeCommander
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6/13/2017  9:17 AM
wtf are you talking about? The GSW are one of the best defensive teams in the league
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
fitzfarm
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6/13/2017  9:36 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:wtf are you talking about? The GSW are one of the best defensive teams in the league

If golden state is one of the best defensive teams lol it just proves my point even more, what was the average score ? 120 lol that's not even close to good defense lol a team holding opponents to under 100 pts per game is great defense
EnySpree
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6/13/2017  10:01 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/13/2017  10:02 AM
Great offense always trumps great defense. Can't stop guys every possession. It's just hard to do with the firepower golden State has now. Last year Cleveland did actually lock golden State down.... Durant takes them into impossible territory
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SupremeCommander
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6/13/2017  10:03 AM
fitzfarm wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:wtf are you talking about? The GSW are one of the best defensive teams in the league

If golden state is one of the best defensive teams lol it just proves my point even more, what was the average score ? 120 lol that's not even close to good defense lol a team holding opponents to under 100 pts per game is great defense

no it doesn't, it just means you don't understand concepts such as pace

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
GoNyGoNyGo
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6/13/2017  10:04 AM
I was thinking the same thing last night. Although GS did use defense to make that huge run that blew the game open.

Also this is why Melo to Cavs makes sense. They need his offense not his D. Love is good but Melo can get his points. Cleveland needs another guy who can do that.
fitzfarm
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6/13/2017  10:20 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:wtf are you talking about? The GSW are one of the best defensive teams in the league

If golden state is one of the best defensive teams lol it just proves my point even more, what was the average score ? 120 lol that's not even close to good defense lol a team holding opponents to under 100 pts per game is great defense

no it doesn't, it just means you don't understand concepts such as pace

What pace lol running up the court and getting open looks, dude the score was 120 to 129 there is no defense in those numbers, just because GS was able to come up with a few stops and the cavs missed more open looks then gs did dose not make them a good defensive team. lol at a team giving up 120 and calling them good defensively..
nixluva
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6/13/2017  10:46 AM
How can you easily stop a team that can jack 3's from well beyond the 3 PT line and also score inside? They spread any defense thin and in the Cavs case they have no rim protection!!! Knicks are not trying to emulate the Cavs. This team is going to be built with functional size and length. Phil wants quick long players that can guard multiple positions. GS has all kinds of defensive flexibility and the Knicks will be trying to build that way. The same with Offense!

Cavs have too many One Dimensional players! That's what you want to avoid as much as possible. Load up on 2 Way players!
SupremeCommander
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6/13/2017  10:51 AM    LAST EDITED: 6/13/2017  10:51 AM
fitzfarm wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:wtf are you talking about? The GSW are one of the best defensive teams in the league

If golden state is one of the best defensive teams lol it just proves my point even more, what was the average score ? 120 lol that's not even close to good defense lol a team holding opponents to under 100 pts per game is great defense

no it doesn't, it just means you don't understand concepts such as pace

What pace lol running up the court and getting open looks, dude the score was 120 to 129 there is no defense in those numbers, just because GS was able to come up with a few stops and the cavs missed more open looks then gs did dose not make them a good defensive team. lol at a team giving up 120 and calling them good defensively..

lol you basic af


Rk	Team	Conf	Div	W	L	W/L%	MOV	ORtg	DRtg	NRtg	MOV/A	ORtg/A	DRtg/A
▲	NRtg/A
1	San Antonio Spurs	W	SW	61	21	.744	7.20	111.82	104.26	7.56	7.13	111.63	104.14	7.49
2	Golden State Warriors	W	P	67	15	.817	11.63	116.26	104.57	11.69	11.35	116.02	104.61	11.41
3	Utah Jazz	W	NW	51	31	.622	3.94	110.46	106.19	4.27	4.00	110.31	105.99	4.33
4	Atlanta Hawks	E	SE	43	39	.524	-0.85	105.56	106.55	-0.99	-1.23	105.33	106.70	-1.37
5	Memphis Grizzlies	W	SW	43	39	.524	0.49	108.55	107.85	0.69	0.96	108.67	107.50	1.17
6	New Orleans Pelicans	W	SW	34	48	.415	-2.10	105.82	108.03	-2.20	-1.69	105.81	107.59	-1.78
7	Oklahoma City Thunder	W	NW	47	35	.573	0.76	108.96	108.17	0.78	1.15	108.94	107.76	1.18
8	Miami Heat	E	SE	41	41	.500	1.06	108.75	107.66	1.09	0.78	108.64	107.85	0.79
9	Detroit Pistons	E	C	37	45	.451	-1.12	106.53	107.91	-1.37	-1.29	106.39	107.93	-1.54
10	Chicago Bulls	E	C	41	41	.500	0.43	108.07	107.74	0.32	0.03	107.93	108.01	-0.08
11	Los Angeles Clippers	W	P	51	31	.622	4.29	113.41	108.91	4.50	4.42	113.49	108.85	4.64
12	Dallas Mavericks	W	SW	33	49	.402	-2.93	106.30	109.37	-3.08	-2.52	106.32	108.97	-2.65
13	Toronto Raptors	E	A	51	31	.622	4.21	113.19	108.68	4.51	3.65	113.07	109.13	3.93
14	Boston Celtics	E	A	53	29	.646	2.63	111.88	109.16	2.72	2.25	111.81	109.49	2.33
15	Charlotte Hornets	E	SE	36	46	.439	0.20	109.56	109.31	0.25	-0.06	109.53	109.54	-0.02
16	Indiana Pacers	E	C	42	40	.512	-0.22	109.32	109.49	-0.16	-0.64	109.20	109.80	-0.60
17	Philadelphia 76ers	E	A	28	54	.341	-5.70	103.96	109.81	-5.85	-5.83	103.92	109.91	-5.99
18	Houston Rockets	W	SW	55	27	.671	5.77	115.58	109.94	5.63	5.84	115.69	109.96	5.72
19	Milwaukee Bucks	E	C	42	40	.512	-0.18	109.92	110.16	-0.23	-0.44	109.96	110.46	-0.50
20	Washington Wizards	E	SE	49	33	.598	1.80	111.99	110.07	1.92	1.36	111.97	110.51	1.46
21	Orlando Magic	E	SE	29	53	.354	-6.57	104.24	111.12	-6.88	-6.61	104.30	111.22	-6.92
22	Portland Trail Blazers	W	NW	41	41	.500	-0.52	110.93	111.46	-0.53	-0.23	111.09	111.31	-0.22
23	Brooklyn Nets	E	A	20	62	.244	-6.73	104.60	111.32	-6.73	-6.74	104.62	111.36	-6.74
24	Cleveland Cavaliers	E	C	51	31	.622	3.18	114.25	110.98	3.27	2.88	114.33	111.38	2.95
25	Sacramento Kings	W	P	32	50	.390	-3.88	107.96	112.17	-4.21	-3.29	108.11	111.70	-3.59
26	Phoenix Suns	W	P	24	58	.293	-5.63	107.32	112.79	-5.47	-5.14	107.44	112.42	-4.98
27	Minnesota Timberwolves	W	NW	31	51	.378	-1.11	111.55	112.74	-1.20	-0.63	111.76	112.46	-0.71
28	New York Knicks	E	A	31	51	.378	-3.67	108.58	112.35	-3.77	-3.87	108.63	112.60	-3.98
29	Los Angeles Lakers	W	P	26	56	.317	-6.88	106.69	113.71	-7.02	-6.29	106.95	113.37	-6.42
30	Denver Nuggets

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2017_ratings.html

when you adjust for possession (complex, I know) they are the second best defensive team in the league behind SAS. You understand how pace might affect the amount of possessions the other team gets, right? You understand why the GSW might want to get as many possessions as they could, right? Right???

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
GustavBahler
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6/13/2017  10:58 AM
Part of playing defense is trying to make the other team expend as much energy as they can to score. Trying to collectively take the other team's legs out from under them. Its not just stopping the other team from scoring.

The Cavs werent going to do that this year with a whole lot of 30 somethings on the team. They need more players, younger players, who can push the tempo, and make GS work for every shot.
fishmike
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6/13/2017  11:38 AM
fitzfarm wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:wtf are you talking about? The GSW are one of the best defensive teams in the league

If golden state is one of the best defensive teams lol it just proves my point even more, what was the average score ? 120 lol that's not even close to good defense lol a team holding opponents to under 100 pts per game is great defense

no it doesn't, it just means you don't understand concepts such as pace

What pace lol running up the court and getting open looks, dude the score was 120 to 129 there is no defense in those numbers, just because GS was able to come up with a few stops and the cavs missed more open looks then gs did dose not make them a good defensive team. lol at a team giving up 120 and calling them good defensively..

fitz your totally wrong. GS was the best team in the league in opposing FG%. GS is #2 behind SAS in opponents PPS... I mean GS was simply one of the best defensive teams in the league. The fact that GS is a top 5 defensive team is not up for debate. They are. Cle was not in the regular season. They coasted on D and its why they fell both in stats and win totals. They did bring it in the playoffs which makes this thread as silly as it gets.

The two best defensive teams won. The only other team in the argument was SAS

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
knicks1248
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6/13/2017  11:49 AM
nixluva wrote:How can you easily stop a team that can jack 3's from well beyond the 3 PT line and also score inside? They spread any defense thin and in the Cavs case they have no rim protection!!! Knicks are not trying to emulate the Cavs. This team is going to be built with functional size and length. Phil wants quick long players that can guard multiple positions. GS has all kinds of defensive flexibility and the Knicks will be trying to build that way. The same with Offense!

Cavs have too many One Dimensional players! That's what you want to avoid as much as possible. Load up on 2 Way players!

Nix, how can you be so narrow minded, you sound just like phil. what good would a paint protector be, when they are extremely comfortable shooting from the perimeter, and when ever your big man comes out, they back door your ass to death.

You act as if there are an abundance of 2 way players that are avail. The league has way more one dimensional players than 2 way players by a large margin, as solid a defender shump is, he saw less and less minutes because he offense is damn near brutal.

There's very little defense that can stop constant ball movement, player movement, and 3 point shooting. Im not saying defense doesn't matter, im saying the offense needs to waaaayyy better than the defensive side of the ball.. we need KP to be scottie pippen

ES
BigDaddyG
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6/13/2017  11:50 AM
fishmike wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
fitzfarm wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:wtf are you talking about? The GSW are one of the best defensive teams in the league

If golden state is one of the best defensive teams lol it just proves my point even more, what was the average score ? 120 lol that's not even close to good defense lol a team holding opponents to under 100 pts per game is great defense

no it doesn't, it just means you don't understand concepts such as pace

What pace lol running up the court and getting open looks, dude the score was 120 to 129 there is no defense in those numbers, just because GS was able to come up with a few stops and the cavs missed more open looks then gs did dose not make them a good defensive team. lol at a team giving up 120 and calling them good defensively..

fitz your totally wrong. GS was the best team in the league in opposing FG%. GS is #2 behind SAS in opponents PPS... I mean GS was simply one of the best defensive teams in the league. The fact that GS is a top 5 defensive team is not up for debate. They are. Cle was not in the regular season. They coasted on D and its why they fell both in stats and win totals. They did bring it in the playoffs which makes this thread as silly as it gets.

The two best defensive teams won. The only other team in the argument was SAS


I don't know about that. Cleveland's defense was suspect all year. But GSW have two of the best two-way players in the league. Trade Draymond for Tristan and Klay for JR and you'll see. Klay alleviates so much pressure on Steph on D and that allows Curry to focus more on offense. Dray's flexibility on defense and offense gives helps too. Durant is no slouch when he's zoned in. The ability to come up with a few stops is what separates good teams from teams like us, who can throw up points but can't get stops.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
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Cavs and GSW proving Defesne does not win championships
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