1. With the 8th pick in the draft, I would pick Monk/Mitchell/Ntilikina (in that order) to address a guard need. Monk has the highest offensive upside but his defense needs improvement in terms of awareness, moving his feet and fighting through screens, etc.. I don't really worry about his defensive effort, as I do with Dennis Smith. Even though Dennis might be an even better offensive player than Monk, his defensive deficiencies more than offsets any advantage. I think Dennis is just more difficult to build a franchise around - hence my preference for Monk. Mitchell and Ntilikina I rate similarly, with Frank being possibly a better shooter but Mitchell having the advantage in his alpha dog mentality. I like their positional versatility, but I find Monk's overall potential and fit just a bit more appealing.

2. I would trade Kyle O Quinn, #44 and cash to the Portland Trail Blazers for Moe Harkless and #26 (where I would target Bam Adebayo, Jordan Bell, Tony Bradley). This decreases our cap space by $6,225,727, to $12,009,685.

3. With the 58th pick, I would draft an overseas player and stash him (maybe Alpha Kaba or Aleksander Vezenkov)

3. Do a sign and trade for Jrue Holiday, sending Courtney Lee to the New Orlean Pelicans. The PG market in 2018 is pretty uninspiring and a major position of need. Jrue is unrestricted and can choose his desired destination. Courtney Lee would be a desirable piece for New Orleans, given his reasonable contract and their need for 3 and D. We can offer Jrue a 4 year contract starting at just under $24MM. I think whilst this might be a slight overpay, Jrue is the type of player we should be targeting - a two way player in his prime with good 3 point shooting and defensive and offensive versatility. He can play on and off the ball, and is above average defensively on switches.

4. Send Carmelo Anthony to the LA Clippers for Austin Rivers, JJ Redick (sign and trade, 4 years at $18MM/yr) and a future first round pick (2021?). Not the most ideal return, but with limited trade partners and limited trade assets on offer, and prospects of diminishing return over time as Carmelo ages, this might be the best we can do. We get to move on from a negative situation, which should help team morale. JJ Redick would be an upgrade over Courtney Lee and a good mentor for the young guards. Austin is a good young depth piece, and we can assess his fit for a year, given his player option for next year.

5. Resign Ron Baker ($3MM/year for 3 years) and Justin Holiday ($7MM for 4 years)

6. Target Dante Cunningham, Omri Casspi, Michael Beasley, Reggie Bullock with a portion of the room exception - I think we end up with Omri Casspi for 2 years at $3MM per. This could give us an option to flip Kuzminskas for a future second rounder. I actually think this is a good idea to build up our stash of future second rounders.

7. Look at D-Leaguers, available free agents for hidden gems - Christian Wood, JP Tokoto, Eric Moreland, Jalen Jones

Depth Chart:

PG: Jrue Holiday(?)/Malik Monk(?)/Ron Baker/Chasson Randle
SG: JJ Redick(?)/Austin Rivers(?)/Justin Holiday
SF: Moe Harkless(?)/Lance Thomas/Mindaugus Kuzminskas
PF: Kristaps Porzingis/Omri Casspi(?)
C: Willy Hernangomez/Joakim Noah/Bam Adebayo(?)

This offseason scenario accomplishes a few things. We get younger, add more athleticism and three point shooting, add offensive and defensive versatility at the guard positions. We resolve the Carmelo Anthony situation and start to build a team identity, with a young foundation that knows it'll be around for a few years at least. I don't know if we'll make the playoffs but the foundation and the future would look a lot brighter.

Thoughts?

ccinflushing wrote:My best case offseason scenario for the Knicks would be this:

1. With the 8th pick in the draft, I would pick Monk/Mitchell/Ntilikina (in that order) to address a guard need. Monk has the highest offensive upside but his defense needs improvement in terms of awareness, moving his feet and fighting through screens, etc.. I don't really worry about his defensive effort, as I do with Dennis Smith. Even though Dennis might be an even better offensive player than Monk, his defensive deficiencies more than offsets any advantage. I think Dennis is just more difficult to build a franchise around - hence my preference for Monk. Mitchell and Ntilikina I rate similarly, with Frank being possibly a better shooter but Mitchell having the advantage in his alpha dog mentality. I like their positional versatility, but I find Monk's overall potential and fit just a bit more appealing.

2. I would trade Kyle O Quinn, #44 and cash to the Portland Trail Blazers for Moe Harkless and #26 (where I would target Bam Adebayo, Jordan Bell, Tony Bradley). This decreases our cap space by $6,225,727, to $12,009,685.

3. With the 58th pick, I would draft an overseas player and stash him (maybe Alpha Kaba or Aleksander Vezenkov)

3. Do a sign and trade for Jrue Holiday, sending Courtney Lee to the New Orlean Pelicans. The PG market in 2018 is pretty uninspiring and a major position of need. Jrue is unrestricted and can choose his desired destination. Courtney Lee would be a desirable piece for New Orleans, given his reasonable contract and their need for 3 and D. We can offer Jrue a 4 year contract starting at just under $24MM. I think whilst this might be a slight overpay, Jrue is the type of player we should be targeting - a two way player in his prime with good 3 point shooting and defensive and offensive versatility. He can play on and off the ball, and is above average defensively on switches.

4. Send Carmelo Anthony to the LA Clippers for Austin Rivers, JJ Redick (sign and trade, 4 years at $18MM/yr) and a future first round pick (2021?). Not the most ideal return, but with limited trade partners and limited trade assets on offer, and prospects of diminishing return over time as Carmelo ages, this might be the best we can do. We get to move on from a negative situation, which should help team morale. JJ Redick would be an upgrade over Courtney Lee and a good mentor for the young guards. Austin is a good young depth piece, and we can assess his fit for a year, given his player option for next year.

5. Resign Ron Baker ($3MM/year for 3 years) and Justin Holiday ($7MM for 4 years)

6. Target Dante Cunningham, Omri Casspi, Michael Beasley, Reggie Bullock with a portion of the room exception - I think we end up with Omri Casspi for 2 years at $3MM per. This could give us an option to flip Kuzminskas for a future second rounder. I actually think this is a good idea to build up our stash of future second rounders.

7. Look at D-Leaguers, available free agents for hidden gems - Christian Wood, JP Tokoto, Eric Moreland, Jalen Jones

Depth Chart:

PG: Jrue Holiday(?)/Malik Monk(?)/Ron Baker/Chasson Randle
SG: JJ Redick(?)/Austin Rivers(?)/Justin Holiday
SF: Moe Harkless(?)/Lance Thomas/Mindaugus Kuzminskas
PF: Kristaps Porzingis/Omri Casspi(?)
C: Willy Hernangomez/Joakim Noah/Bam Adebayo(?)

This offseason scenario accomplishes a few things. We get younger, add more athleticism and three point shooting, add offensive and defensive versatility at the guard positions. We resolve the Carmelo Anthony situation and start to build a team identity, with a young foundation that knows it'll be around for a few years at least. I don't know if we'll make the playoffs but the foundation and the future would look a lot brighter.

Thoughts?

All in all, I think that your proposals are reasonable. However, I do think you are selling Kyle O'Quinn short if you think that both he and an asset would be required to get just the 26th pick and an undesirable contract. He had the highest PER of anyone on the team and is still young enough to improve. As much as there is a surplus of big men that are available on the market, I think he's one of the few that fits what you want to do with small ball (protects the rim, can find cutters with his passing ability (however reckless it may get), can handle the switch in the PnR and can hit the long ball if his shot is on). When you combine that with a below market contract for the next two years, I think it becomes reasonable to assume he's a pretty good trade piece. I'm not moving him for anything less than a mid-first round pick (or player selected in the mid-first round e.g. Juan Hernangomez).

I'm also not a fan of signing Jrue Holiday under any circumstances. He'll allow us to be good enough to get close to the playoffs but not good enough to actually help us do anything if we make it. His injury history is also a major concern and when you consider what his market might be, I think it makes very little sense to commit that much cap to someone who would be a non-difference maker in the grand scheme of things. I understand the need for a mentor to help us develop the PG we draft but I think that could be had at a cheaper price and/or paired with an asset.

For those same reasons, I'm also not a fan of bringing in JJ Redick. I'd look to find a 3rd team to send him to and try to recoup assets from them instead. I do think the Thunder, in particular would be interested given Reddick's low USG rating and ability to space the floor next to an extremely ball dominant, Russell Westbrook. I really think if we send both he and Austin Rivers there instead, we'd have enough leverage to demand Victor Oladipo back who is young enough to grow with this team and has a skillset that fits the triangle. I see him being able to slide between both guard positions in this system and has enoufh veteran experience for me to feel comfortable in allowing him to be a mentor to our newly drafted PG.

NardDogNation wrote:

ccinflushing wrote:My best case offseason scenario for the Knicks would be this:

1. With the 8th pick in the draft, I would pick Monk/Mitchell/Ntilikina (in that order) to address a guard need. Monk has the highest offensive upside but his defense needs improvement in terms of awareness, moving his feet and fighting through screens, etc.. I don't really worry about his defensive effort, as I do with Dennis Smith. Even though Dennis might be an even better offensive player than Monk, his defensive deficiencies more than offsets any advantage. I think Dennis is just more difficult to build a franchise around - hence my preference for Monk. Mitchell and Ntilikina I rate similarly, with Frank being possibly a better shooter but Mitchell having the advantage in his alpha dog mentality. I like their positional versatility, but I find Monk's overall potential and fit just a bit more appealing.

2. I would trade Kyle O Quinn, #44 and cash to the Portland Trail Blazers for Moe Harkless and #26 (where I would target Bam Adebayo, Jordan Bell, Tony Bradley). This decreases our cap space by $6,225,727, to $12,009,685.

3. With the 58th pick, I would draft an overseas player and stash him (maybe Alpha Kaba or Aleksander Vezenkov)

3. Do a sign and trade for Jrue Holiday, sending Courtney Lee to the New Orlean Pelicans. The PG market in 2018 is pretty uninspiring and a major position of need. Jrue is unrestricted and can choose his desired destination. Courtney Lee would be a desirable piece for New Orleans, given his reasonable contract and their need for 3 and D. We can offer Jrue a 4 year contract starting at just under $24MM. I think whilst this might be a slight overpay, Jrue is the type of player we should be targeting - a two way player in his prime with good 3 point shooting and defensive and offensive versatility. He can play on and off the ball, and is above average defensively on switches.

4. Send Carmelo Anthony to the LA Clippers for Austin Rivers, JJ Redick (sign and trade, 4 years at $18MM/yr) and a future first round pick (2021?). Not the most ideal return, but with limited trade partners and limited trade assets on offer, and prospects of diminishing return over time as Carmelo ages, this might be the best we can do. We get to move on from a negative situation, which should help team morale. JJ Redick would be an upgrade over Courtney Lee and a good mentor for the young guards. Austin is a good young depth piece, and we can assess his fit for a year, given his player option for next year.

5. Resign Ron Baker ($3MM/year for 3 years) and Justin Holiday ($7MM for 4 years)

6. Target Dante Cunningham, Omri Casspi, Michael Beasley, Reggie Bullock with a portion of the room exception - I think we end up with Omri Casspi for 2 years at $3MM per. This could give us an option to flip Kuzminskas for a future second rounder. I actually think this is a good idea to build up our stash of future second rounders.

7. Look at D-Leaguers, available free agents for hidden gems - Christian Wood, JP Tokoto, Eric Moreland, Jalen Jones

Depth Chart:

PG: Jrue Holiday(?)/Malik Monk(?)/Ron Baker/Chasson Randle
SG: JJ Redick(?)/Austin Rivers(?)/Justin Holiday
SF: Moe Harkless(?)/Lance Thomas/Mindaugus Kuzminskas
PF: Kristaps Porzingis/Omri Casspi(?)
C: Willy Hernangomez/Joakim Noah/Bam Adebayo(?)

This offseason scenario accomplishes a few things. We get younger, add more athleticism and three point shooting, add offensive and defensive versatility at the guard positions. We resolve the Carmelo Anthony situation and start to build a team identity, with a young foundation that knows it'll be around for a few years at least. I don't know if we'll make the playoffs but the foundation and the future would look a lot brighter.

Thoughts?

All in all, I think that your proposals are reasonable. However, I do think you are selling Kyle O'Quinn short if you think that both he and an asset would be required to get just the 26th pick and an undesirable contract. He had the highest PER of anyone on the team and is still young enough to improve. As much as there is a surplus of big men that are available on the market, I think he's one of the few that fits what you want to do with small ball (protects the rim, can find cutters with his passing ability (however reckless it may get), can handle the switch in the PnR and can hit the long ball if his shot is on). When you combine that with a below market contract for the next two years, I think it becomes reasonable to assume he's a pretty good trade piece. I'm not moving him for anything less than a mid-first round pick (or player selected in the mid-first round e.g. Juan Hernangomez).

I'm also not a fan of signing Jrue Holiday under any circumstances. He'll allow us to be good enough to get close to the playoffs but not good enough to actually help us do anything if we make it. His injury history is also a major concern and when you consider what his market might be, I think it makes very little sense to commit that much cap to someone who would be a non-difference maker in the grand scheme of things. I understand the need for a mentor to help us develop the PG we draft but I think that could be had at a cheaper price and/or paired with an asset.

For those same reasons, I'm also not a fan of bringing in JJ Redick. I'd look to find a 3rd team to send him to and try to recoup assets from them instead. I do think the Thunder, in particular would be interested given Reddick's low USG rating and ability to space the floor next to an extremely ball dominant, Russell Westbrook. I really think if we send both he and Austin Rivers there instead, we'd have enough leverage to demand Victor Oladipo back who is young enough to grow with this team and has a skillset that fits the triangle. I see him being able to slide between both guard positions in this system and has enoufh veteran experience for me to feel comfortable in allowing him to be a mentor to our newly drafted PG.

I understand where you're coming from, but let me address a few of the issues you've raised:

I agree, Kyle O'Quinn has a reasonable contract, but it's a virtual certainty that he opts out next year as he has a PO. Based on contracts given out to the likes of Cole Aldrich ($22MM/3 years) and Festus Ezeli ($15MM/2 years), I wouldn't be surprised to see Kyle garner a contract for $30MM/3 years. Given our depth at center, with Willy, Noah and KP all capable of manning the position, it would seem sensible to cash in one of our best trade chips. Moe Harkless is a starting caliber SF/PF, with above average defense and an improving 3 point shot. He is also a great triangle fit, as he cuts with purpose and is an under-rated passer. He's has a good contract for 3 years and $30MM, he's only 24 and continuously improving his game. He's worth more than Kyle in any trade.

As far as Jrue is concerned, I think he would be big for KP and Willy's development - this must be a huge consideration for the Knicks. IF KP is to be our franchise player, then the Knicks need to help with his development to get him to realize his full potential. Jrue can be a key part of that, simply by providing stability at the PG position. I think it'll help all our youngsters. Jrue's versatiity, both offensively and defensively, and in terms of being able to play PG and SG, allows the team greater flexibility in adding future pieces to the team. Look at Carmelo - we've struggled to really build the team around him. Hopefully we don't make the same mistake this time around - hopefully we learn from our mistakes and don't repeat them. I think an investment in Jrue is a judicious use of cap space - he's an All Star caliber player entering his prime that we wouldn't be able to otherwise get.

Along the same lines, JJ Redick will help with system implementation and player development (in the event that one of Monk/Mitchell/Ntilikina is the pick). He'll help with ball and player movement and make the game easier for KP and the rest of the young guys. He wasn't the best defensive player when he came out of school, but he's worked to become an average to above average player at the SG position and I think he could help our youngster there and in other aspects of the game. His contract helps facilitate the Carmelo trade.

I think the Knicks need to build a firm culture of defense first team play involving player and ball movement. Jrue and Moe bring that mentality, as does JJ. They're also all fairly efficient players and show a certain amount of grit, which should raise the level of team play.

Another wasted year or building the foundation - what's it to be? I vote to build the foundation for KP.

NardDogNation wrote:

ccinflushing wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

ccinflushing wrote:My best case offseason scenario for the Knicks would be this:

1. With the 8th pick in the draft, I would pick Monk/Mitchell/Ntilikina (in that order) to address a guard need. Monk has the highest offensive upside but his defense needs improvement in terms of awareness, moving his feet and fighting through screens, etc.. I don't really worry about his defensive effort, as I do with Dennis Smith. Even though Dennis might be an even better offensive player than Monk, his defensive deficiencies more than offsets any advantage. I think Dennis is just more difficult to build a franchise around - hence my preference for Monk. Mitchell and Ntilikina I rate similarly, with Frank being possibly a better shooter but Mitchell having the advantage in his alpha dog mentality. I like their positional versatility, but I find Monk's overall potential and fit just a bit more appealing.

2. I would trade Kyle O Quinn, #44 and cash to the Portland Trail Blazers for Moe Harkless and #26 (where I would target Bam Adebayo, Jordan Bell, Tony Bradley). This decreases our cap space by $6,225,727, to $12,009,685.

3. With the 58th pick, I would draft an overseas player and stash him (maybe Alpha Kaba or Aleksander Vezenkov)

3. Do a sign and trade for Jrue Holiday, sending Courtney Lee to the New Orlean Pelicans. The PG market in 2018 is pretty uninspiring and a major position of need. Jrue is unrestricted and can choose his desired destination. Courtney Lee would be a desirable piece for New Orleans, given his reasonable contract and their need for 3 and D. We can offer Jrue a 4 year contract starting at just under $24MM. I think whilst this might be a slight overpay, Jrue is the type of player we should be targeting - a two way player in his prime with good 3 point shooting and defensive and offensive versatility. He can play on and off the ball, and is above average defensively on switches.

4. Send Carmelo Anthony to the LA Clippers for Austin Rivers, JJ Redick (sign and trade, 4 years at $18MM/yr) and a future first round pick (2021?). Not the most ideal return, but with limited trade partners and limited trade assets on offer, and prospects of diminishing return over time as Carmelo ages, this might be the best we can do. We get to move on from a negative situation, which should help team morale. JJ Redick would be an upgrade over Courtney Lee and a good mentor for the young guards. Austin is a good young depth piece, and we can assess his fit for a year, given his player option for next year.

5. Resign Ron Baker ($3MM/year for 3 years) and Justin Holiday ($7MM for 4 years)

6. Target Dante Cunningham, Omri Casspi, Michael Beasley, Reggie Bullock with a portion of the room exception - I think we end up with Omri Casspi for 2 years at $3MM per. This could give us an option to flip Kuzminskas for a future second rounder. I actually think this is a good idea to build up our stash of future second rounders.

7. Look at D-Leaguers, available free agents for hidden gems - Christian Wood, JP Tokoto, Eric Moreland, Jalen Jones

Depth Chart:

PG: Jrue Holiday(?)/Malik Monk(?)/Ron Baker/Chasson Randle
SG: JJ Redick(?)/Austin Rivers(?)/Justin Holiday
SF: Moe Harkless(?)/Lance Thomas/Mindaugus Kuzminskas
PF: Kristaps Porzingis/Omri Casspi(?)
C: Willy Hernangomez/Joakim Noah/Bam Adebayo(?)

This offseason scenario accomplishes a few things. We get younger, add more athleticism and three point shooting, add offensive and defensive versatility at the guard positions. We resolve the Carmelo Anthony situation and start to build a team identity, with a young foundation that knows it'll be around for a few years at least. I don't know if we'll make the playoffs but the foundation and the future would look a lot brighter.

Thoughts?

All in all, I think that your proposals are reasonable. However, I do think you are selling Kyle O'Quinn short if you think that both he and an asset would be required to get just the 26th pick and an undesirable contract. He had the highest PER of anyone on the team and is still young enough to improve. As much as there is a surplus of big men that are available on the market, I think he's one of the few that fits what you want to do with small ball (protects the rim, can find cutters with his passing ability (however reckless it may get), can handle the switch in the PnR and can hit the long ball if his shot is on). When you combine that with a below market contract for the next two years, I think it becomes reasonable to assume he's a pretty good trade piece. I'm not moving him for anything less than a mid-first round pick (or player selected in the mid-first round e.g. Juan Hernangomez).

I'm also not a fan of signing Jrue Holiday under any circumstances. He'll allow us to be good enough to get close to the playoffs but not good enough to actually help us do anything if we make it. His injury history is also a major concern and when you consider what his market might be, I think it makes very little sense to commit that much cap to someone who would be a non-difference maker in the grand scheme of things. I understand the need for a mentor to help us develop the PG we draft but I think that could be had at a cheaper price and/or paired with an asset.

For those same reasons, I'm also not a fan of bringing in JJ Redick. I'd look to find a 3rd team to send him to and try to recoup assets from them instead. I do think the Thunder, in particular would be interested given Reddick's low USG rating and ability to space the floor next to an extremely ball dominant, Russell Westbrook. I really think if we send both he and Austin Rivers there instead, we'd have enough leverage to demand Victor Oladipo back who is young enough to grow with this team and has a skillset that fits the triangle. I see him being able to slide between both guard positions in this system and has enoufh veteran experience for me to feel comfortable in allowing him to be a mentor to our newly drafted PG.

I understand where you're coming from, but let me address a few of the issues you've raised:

I agree, Kyle O'Quinn has a reasonable contract, but it's a virtual certainty that he opts out next year as he has a PO. Based on contracts given out to the likes of Cole Aldrich ($22MM/3 years) and Festus Ezeli ($15MM/2 years), I wouldn't be surprised to see Kyle garner a contract for $30MM/3 years. Given our depth at center, with Willy, Noah and KP all capable of manning the position, it would seem sensible to cash in one of our best trade chips. Moe Harkless is a starting caliber SF/PF, with above average defense and an improving 3 point shot. He is also a great triangle fit, as he cuts with purpose and is an under-rated passer. He's has a good contract for 3 years and $30MM, he's only 24 and continuously improving his game. He's worth more than Kyle in any trade.

As far as Jrue is concerned, I think he would be big for KP and Willy's development - this must be a huge consideration for the Knicks. IF KP is to be our franchise player, then the Knicks need to help with his development to get him to realize his full potential. Jrue can be a key part of that, simply by providing stability at the PG position. I think it'll help all our youngsters. Jrue's versatiity, both offensively and defensively, and in terms of being able to play PG and SG, allows the team greater flexibility in adding future pieces to the team. Look at Carmelo - we've struggled to really build the team around him. Hopefully we don't make the same mistake this time around - hopefully we learn from our mistakes and don't repeat them. I think an investment in Jrue is a judicious use of cap space - he's an All Star caliber player entering his prime that we wouldn't be able to otherwise get.

Along the same lines, JJ Redick will help with system implementation and player development (in the event that one of Monk/Mitchell/Ntilikina is the pick). He'll help with ball and player movement and make the game easier for KP and the rest of the young guys. He wasn't the best defensive player when he came out of school, but he's worked to become an average to above average player at the SG position and I think he could help our youngster there and in other aspects of the game. His contract helps facilitate the Carmelo trade.

I think the Knicks need to build a firm culture of defense first team play involving player and ball movement. Jrue and Moe bring that mentality, as does JJ. They're also all fairly efficient players and show a certain amount of grit, which should raise the level of team play.

Another wasted year or building the foundation - what's it to be? I vote to build the foundation for KP.

I understand our motivation for trading Kyle O'Quinn. I prefer him to Willy but given Willy's relative youth, contract length and friendship with KP, I understand that KO is the odd man out. But I don't think that he is a player that has to be moved for anything less than fair market value and that is what I think the 26th pick is.

As much as Kyle will end up opting out in 2 years, the Blazers would still have him for a season at $4 million; allowing them to guage his fit with the team at no real cost/risk while saving on their luxury tax bill. For a team set to lead the league in payroll for at least next season and has a weakness at center, I think that getting Kyle would be no small thing. But if you think his impending free agency is such a major concern because of the money he'll command, why do you think the Blazers would give up Harkless who is locked into a contract that will pay him less in the long run?

As for Jrue Holiday, I like the player but given his injury history the past several seasons, how likely is he to actually honor the duration of his new contract? His career arc is reminding me a bit of Deron Williams and I'd hate to repeat the Nets' mistake by having a player like that handicap the franchise. I understand our need for veterans. I understand our need for versatility in the backcourt. I just think that a Jrue Holiday, looking for a near max deal, is a bad idea for a team in such a tenuous position as we are. Besides, we should be looking to tank next year as well and having a Jrue Holiday for the 40-60 games he's healthy would disrupt that.

And again, the same reason applies to JJ Redick who is looking for his last big payday. I think that it is a bad idea to lock up a guy, well into his 30s who makes his living run off screens to get shots. On a contender that is a piece away, Redick makes sense paying $20 million per year for. On a rebuilding team, it's a terrible idea because that money could be used to take bad, short-term contracts that will get you the picks to build your core e.g. the trade that got the rebuilding Sonics/Thunder Serge Ibaka, that got the Sixers Dario Saric, that got the Celtics Rajon Rondo, that got the Blazers Nic Batum, etc.

Case and point, when the Pelicans traded for Jrue Holiday, they sacrificed two lottery picks in 2013 and 2014 that could've provided the financial flexibility necessary to take on contracts for mid to late first rounders. They've made the playoffs only once during that span and now in desperation mode trying to keep Anthony Davis happy. But had they built their team patiently, they could easily have had Giannias Antetokounmpo and one of the lottery picks in 2014 on their roster along with a couple other cheap rotation players to augment the rotation with. Now picture for a moment how amazing an Anthony Davis- Giannas Antetokounmpo pairing would have been instead of Jrue Holiday, Tyreke Evans and the lot.

Regarding Kyle and Moe, it's a fair trade for both sides and both sides have reasons to go through with it. At this point Moe and #24 is about equivalent to Kyle and #26, as I tried to demonstrate in my earlier post assigning values to Knick assets based on prior draft day trades. #24 can be bought using #44 and cash (probably close to the maximum $3.5MM teams are allowed to pay). From the Knick's perspective, getting Moe Harkless replaces some of Carmelo's production and allows them to cash in on Kyle's value when it's reasonably high. For Portland, it moves closer to being under the tax line while addressing a huge hole at center and giving them insurance in case they don't want to meet Nurkic's cost in free agency.

Regarding salary dumps, most involved expiring contracts, not ones with terms of multiple years. It also requires special circumstances, like teams gearing up for a loaded free agent class. Not sure when it happens again. You're also depending to some extent on teams with bad or unlucky managements who would be willing to give up assets to move forward. I don't think it's a generally a great strategy to build your teams of these uncertain and unpredictable factors.

As far as Jrue and JJ goes, it's apparent that we have different philosophies about how the Knicks should go forward. Let's just agree that there are many different paths to the end goal and that even the best chosen ones require some luck!

newyorker4ever wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:I'd start with a four team trade involving the Clippers, Suns and Thunder: Clippers would get Melo; Suns would get Jamal Crawford, the 44th and 58th picks; we'd get Victor Oladipo, Brandon Knight and about an additional $11 million worth of cap space; the Thunder would get Courtney Lee, Austin Rivers and the 36th pick.

With the $30 million worth of cap space this upcoming offseason ($19 million to start, plus the $11 million created by sending C.Lee to OKC), I make a pledge to the Blazers to trade Lance Thomas and absorb the balance of Allen Crabbe's and Evan Turner's contracts for the 15th pick.

If I can't move up to 3rd by packaging Oladipo and the 8th, I simply draft Frank Ntilikina. At 15, I select Justin Jackson.

And if Mason Plumlee becomes too expensive for the Nuggets to retain, I approach them with a package of Kyle O'Quinn, Mindaugas Kuzminskaus and cash for Juan Hernangomez.

STARTERS
PG: Brandon Knight
SG: Victor Oladipo
SF: Evan Turner
PF: Kristaps Porzingis
C: Willy Hernangomez

ROTATION
G: Frank Ntilikina
G/F: Allen Crabbe
F: Justin Jackson
F: Juan Hernangomez
C: Joakim Noah

I'm pretty sure the OP asked for a realistic off season plan

And he got one.

Trade scenario between Knicks and Pistons
Knicks: receive 12th pick, Aron Baynes,
Pistons: receive Courtney Lee, KO

Step 1: 12th pick: (Via Blazers)
Draft: Donavan Mitchell

Step 2: 15th pick: (via Blazers)
Draft: Luke Kennard

Step 3: 20th pick: (Via Blazers)
Draft: Azenjes Paseknics

Step 4: 26th pick (Via Blazers)
Draft: DJ Wilson

Step 5: 44th pick
Draft: Wesley Iwundu

Step 6: With (Our 58th pick)
Draft: 58th pick: Jakob WIley

Step 7: Free Agent
Sign: Jalen Jones from (D-League)

Starting Lineup
Mitchell, Kennard, Crabbe, KP, Willy

Bench:
Baker, Jalen Jones, Kuz, DJ Wilson, Azenjes

Reserve:
Vucevic, Lance , Noah, Jacob Wiley, Iwundu

Summer League Invite:
Deonte Burton
Andrew White
Alexander Venzecov
VJ Beachem

ccinflushing wrote:My best case offseason scenario for the Knicks would be this:

1. With the 8th pick in the draft, I would pick Monk/Mitchell/Ntilikina (in that order) to address a guard need. Monk has the highest offensive upside but his defense needs improvement in terms of awareness, moving his feet and fighting through screens, etc.. I don't really worry about his defensive effort, as I do with Dennis Smith. Even though Dennis might be an even better offensive player than Monk, his defensive deficiencies more than offsets any advantage. I think Dennis is just more difficult to build a franchise around - hence my preference for Monk. Mitchell and Ntilikina I rate similarly, with Frank being possibly a better shooter but Mitchell having the advantage in his alpha dog mentality. I like their positional versatility, but I find Monk's overall potential and fit just a bit more appealing.

2. I would trade Kyle O Quinn, #44 and cash to the Portland Trail Blazers for Moe Harkless and #26 (where I would target Bam Adebayo, Jordan Bell, Tony Bradley). This decreases our cap space by $6,225,727, to $12,009,685.

3. With the 58th pick, I would draft an overseas player and stash him (maybe Alpha Kaba or Aleksander Vezenkov)

3. Do a sign and trade for Jrue Holiday, sending Courtney Lee to the New Orlean Pelicans. The PG market in 2018 is pretty uninspiring and a major position of need. Jrue is unrestricted and can choose his desired destination. Courtney Lee would be a desirable piece for New Orleans, given his reasonable contract and their need for 3 and D. We can offer Jrue a 4 year contract starting at just under $24MM. I think whilst this might be a slight overpay, Jrue is the type of player we should be targeting - a two way player in his prime with good 3 point shooting and defensive and offensive versatility. He can play on and off the ball, and is above average defensively on switches.

4. Send Carmelo Anthony to the LA Clippers for Austin Rivers, JJ Redick (sign and trade, 4 years at $18MM/yr) and a future first round pick (2021?). Not the most ideal return, but with limited trade partners and limited trade assets on offer, and prospects of diminishing return over time as Carmelo ages, this might be the best we can do. We get to move on from a negative situation, which should help team morale. JJ Redick would be an upgrade over Courtney Lee and a good mentor for the young guards. Austin is a good young depth piece, and we can assess his fit for a year, given his player option for next year.

5. Resign Ron Baker ($3MM/year for 3 years) and Justin Holiday ($7MM for 4 years)

6. Target Dante Cunningham, Omri Casspi, Michael Beasley, Reggie Bullock with a portion of the room exception - I think we end up with Omri Casspi for 2 years at $3MM per. This could give us an option to flip Kuzminskas for a future second rounder. I actually think this is a good idea to build up our stash of future second rounders.

7. Look at D-Leaguers, available free agents for hidden gems - Christian Wood, JP Tokoto, Eric Moreland, Jalen Jones

Depth Chart:

PG: Jrue Holiday(?)/Malik Monk(?)/Ron Baker/Chasson Randle
SG: JJ Redick(?)/Austin Rivers(?)/Justin Holiday
SF: Moe Harkless(?)/Lance Thomas/Mindaugus Kuzminskas
PF: Kristaps Porzingis/Omri Casspi(?)
C: Willy Hernangomez/Joakim Noah/Bam Adebayo(?)

This offseason scenario accomplishes a few things. We get younger, add more athleticism and three point shooting, add offensive and defensive versatility at the guard positions. We resolve the Carmelo Anthony situation and start to build a team identity, with a young foundation that knows it'll be around for a few years at least. I don't know if we'll make the playoffs but the foundation and the future would look a lot brighter.

Thoughts?

We trade for Rubio
Draft Ntilikina or Isaac/ Then Mason
Acquire Harkless and a late first from Portland for capspace only and draft Josh Hart or Swanigan with that pick.

Adding Rubio, Ntilikina, Harkless, Frank Mason and Josh Hart would be a very nice offseason.

dacash wrote:

reub wrote:Best case scenario is:

We trade for Rubio
Draft Ntilikina or Isaac/ Then Mason
Acquire Harkless and a late first from Portland for capspace only and draft Josh Hart or Swanigan with that pick.

Adding Rubio, Ntilikina, Harkless, Frank Mason and Josh Hart would be a very nice offseason.

this is nice
rubio, ntilikina harkless ,billy and kp is an ok young lineup

Yeah this is exactly what I am hoping for too.