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Very tough to beat either Golden State or the Cavs
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BRIGGS
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5/5/2017  11:32 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/5/2017  11:36 AM
there is no defense in the nBA that can handle their respective offenses. Either score more or hope they miss. Thats why you cant build a team centered around defense. It can help you and you want two way players--but these teams(cavs and Warriors) are scoring 110-120 points regardless of who you have out there--so you need to be able to score 115 as well. So we avg 104--we need to bring that up--has NO chance to win in the nBA as is. We werent terrible #18 in league in scoring but as you can see other than the Jazz and Bull no other team made the playoffs below us. The jazz are a good example of defense alone wont cut it. Certainly 1 of the best defensive teams--best C good singular parts and play well as a team. But it wont beat these teams that are averaging over 110. If you can avg 116 for the season--than thats the mark.

We are 23 in differential and we ended up in the 7th lottery position--probably a good indicator of how to improve. We need to look how the team can get up to 110-112 a game --that is number 1.

RIP Crushalot😞
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martin
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5/5/2017  11:43 AM
BRIGGS wrote:there is no defense in the nBA that can handle their respective offenses. Either score more or hope they miss. Thats why you cant build a team centered around defense. It can help you and you want two way players--but these teams(cavs and Warriors) are scoring 110-120 points regardless of who you have out there--so you need to be able to score 115 as well. So we avg 104--we need to bring that up--has NO chance to win in the nBA as is. We werent terrible #18 in league in scoring but as you can see other than the Jazz and Bull no other team made the playoffs below us. The jazz are a good example of defense alone wont cut it. Certainly 1 of the best defensive teams--best C good singular parts and play well as a team. But it wont beat these teams that are averaging over 110. If you can avg 116 for the season--than thats the mark.

We are 23 in differential and we ended up in the 7th lottery position--probably a good indicator of how to improve. We need to look how the team can get up to 110-112 a game --that is number 1.

Play to their strengths? That's a tough call man.

Should the best passing team of all time started to run because Magic and the Lakers were doing so?

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BRIGGS
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5/5/2017  11:51 AM
martin wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:there is no defense in the nBA that can handle their respective offenses. Either score more or hope they miss. Thats why you cant build a team centered around defense. It can help you and you want two way players--but these teams(cavs and Warriors) are scoring 110-120 points regardless of who you have out there--so you need to be able to score 115 as well. So we avg 104--we need to bring that up--has NO chance to win in the nBA as is. We werent terrible #18 in league in scoring but as you can see other than the Jazz and Bull no other team made the playoffs below us. The jazz are a good example of defense alone wont cut it. Certainly 1 of the best defensive teams--best C good singular parts and play well as a team. But it wont beat these teams that are averaging over 110. If you can avg 116 for the season--than thats the mark.

We are 23 in differential and we ended up in the 7th lottery position--probably a good indicator of how to improve. We need to look how the team can get up to 110-112 a game --that is number 1.

Play to their strengths? That's a tough call man.

Should the best passing team of all time started to run because Magic and the Lakers were doing so?


Stats are compelling. We avg 104---14/16 playoff teams avg more. I think GS has good defense=--so do Cavs (when they want to) but its their offense that wins game.
RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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5/5/2017  11:56 AM
Our FG% was below 45%
Again only 14/16 teams made the playoffs with a FG% below 45%
RIP Crushalot😞
franco12
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5/5/2017  12:12 PM
no one is beating GS or Cavs until that team has more talented stars or Lebron/Curry start to get too old to be dominant.

We're probably 2-3 years away from the playoffs, so I don't think we need to worry about beating either team...
Vmart
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5/5/2017  12:20 PM
You make a valid point. That is why the best 1-2 players can not shoot in the mid to low 40%. That is a recipe for losing. Defense is always important and getting two way players should be priority. A team should be able to turn up their defense to get the all important game deciding stops. This is the new NBA where defense has to played in spurts at decisive moments of the game.

Remember also that Phils Lakers teams scored well using triangle basketball.
Nalod
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5/5/2017  12:32 PM
Astonishing observation to the last two NBA champions on a collision course to meet for a third straight time!!!
and all we come up with is:

The team with the most points wins.
We need more talent.

For those who have been able to break away from the Oak Shrine and understand the rules that have changed the game no allow for MDA, GSW, Cavs to open it up and run and gun.
Imagine Lebron in the hand check era? Ok, but don't forget illegal defense and when Jordan Isolated any help on defense was "Illegal". Now imagine Lebron, bigger, faster stronger doing it. Imagine he was paired with a Paul George type player that liked to play defense. We called that Scottie Pippen back then. I hated Jordan back in the day until his last 3 with the bulls when I decided to admire the bulls game and not just be a victim of them bashing the knicks. It was better to respect and admire than just feel abused. The mind games Phil played with JVG, and I also loved JVG standing up to the bulls!!! It was great theater!!!!

Lebron, like Jordan is an arrogant prick but on the court he is a genius. Jordan too. Both Who is better? Who cares anymore, they are both on mt rushmore. Lots of room up there.
Save room for KP!!!
knicks1248
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5/5/2017  12:39 PM
those 2 team score more because they score fast and shoot 3's a high rate and take more FT's..
ES
Nalod
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5/5/2017  1:21 PM
knicks1248 wrote:those 2 team score more because they score fast and shoot 3's a high rate and take more FT's..

Their best player does not hold the ball.
Durant had a problem with Westbrook because Russel would keep probing and when the clock ran down, he gave it to Durant. Durant was not appreciative of bailing him out.
Westbrook MVP? 47 wins and first round exit? Harden stats a bit less, but 54 wins and in the second round.
nixluva
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5/5/2017  1:36 PM
There are multiple ways to get it done but obviously if you are ELITE in scoring the ball then you're going to have a better chance since the overall level of defense in the League isn't that high. That said I still think Phil is correct in his evaluation that unlike the past which focused a lot on Transition D. Now you need ELITE Man defenders on the perimeter and ELITE rim protection to have any chance at slowing teams down.

Obviously you need great Talent in order to win as well. It's not just the approach that is doing it. If it was just about the approach to the game then the Nets would be a winner. Taking a lot of 3's per game doesn't make up for the other massive deficiencies.


Rk	Team	                G	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA▼    3P%	
1	Houston Rockets*	82	241.2	40.3	87.2	.462	14.4	40.3	.357
2	Cleveland Cavaliers*	82	242.4	39.9	84.9	.470	13.0	33.9	.384	
3	Boston Celtics*	        82	240.9	38.6	85.1	.454	12.0	33.4	.359
4	Brooklyn Nets	        82	240.9	37.8	85.2	.444	10.7	31.6	.338
5	Golden State Warriors*	82	241.2	43.1	87.1	.495	12.0	31.3	.383
6	Dallas Mavericks	82	241.2	36.2	82.3	.440	10.7	30.2	.355
7	Philadelphia 76ers	82	241.8	37.7	85.3	.442	10.1	29.8	.340
8	Denver Nuggets	        82	240.9	41.2	87.7	.469	10.6	28.8	.368
9	Charlotte Hornets	82	241.8	37.7	85.4	.442	10.0	28.6	.351
10	Portland Trail Blazers*	82	243.0	39.5	86.1	.459	10.4	27.7    .375

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2017.html
knicks1248
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5/5/2017  2:05 PM
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:those 2 team score more because they score fast and shoot 3's a high rate and take more FT's..

Their best player does not hold the ball.
Durant had a problem with Westbrook because Russel would keep probing and when the clock ran down, he gave it to Durant. Durant was not appreciative of bailing him out.
Westbrook MVP? 47 wins and first round exit? Harden stats a bit less, but 54 wins and in the second round.

Here you go again with this melo holding the ball and total disregard the roses(never shoots 3's) baker (can't shoot 3's) Jennings (32% on 3's) lance ( half a season) Lee (scared to take more then 7 shot per game)

The list of BS offensive liabilities is long on the Knicks

ES
Cartman718
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5/5/2017  2:20 PM
franco12 wrote:no one is beating GS or Cavs until that team has more talented stars or Lebron/Curry start to get too old to be dominant.

We're probably 2-3 years away from the playoffs, so I don't think we need to worry about beating either team...

SLAP!

Nixluva is posting triangle screen grabs, even when nobody asks - Fishmike. LOL So are we going to reference that thread like the bible now? "The thread of Wroten Page 14 post 9" - EnySpree
Nalod
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5/5/2017  2:24 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/5/2017  2:25 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:those 2 team score more because they score fast and shoot 3's a high rate and take more FT's..

Their best player does not hold the ball.
Durant had a problem with Westbrook because Russel would keep probing and when the clock ran down, he gave it to Durant. Durant was not appreciative of bailing him out.
Westbrook MVP? 47 wins and first round exit? Harden stats a bit less, but 54 wins and in the second round.

Here you go again with this melo holding the ball and total disregard the roses(never shoots 3's) baker (can't shoot 3's) Jennings (32% on 3's) lance ( half a season) Lee (scared to take more then 7 shot per game)

The list of BS offensive liabilities is long on the Knicks

"Best Player"..........I said BEST PLAYER. Not the Ron Burgandy or Brandon "Moochie" Jennings!!


BTW, I agree, we need more better players. So whats your beef? Rebuild not happening fast enough for you?

I think shaming is funny as hell. So is the grand insult of "Holding the damn ball" is too. Time to move on. Melo here for his kids and for what we thought was a marriage. Turns out, HE was not married at all. La La was.
GustavBahler
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5/5/2017  2:49 PM
How many teams have won a chip without having one of the best defenses in the league?
EnySpree
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5/5/2017  3:51 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/5/2017  3:52 PM
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:those 2 team score more because they score fast and shoot 3's a high rate and take more FT's..

Their best player does not hold the ball.
Durant had a problem with Westbrook because Russel would keep probing and when the clock ran down, he gave it to Durant. Durant was not appreciative of bailing him out.
Westbrook MVP? 47 wins and first round exit? Harden stats a bit less, but 54 wins and in the second round.

It's most valuable player, not team.... Harden has a legit beef but Westbrook did something that hasn't happened in 40 years...

Otherwise LeBron should get it every year... that's what we said about Jordan. Sometimes you have to award the special player. Westbrook is that dude this year.... if there ever was a co mvp... it would be Harden and Westbrook

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EnySpree
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5/5/2017  3:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/5/2017  3:57 PM
Cartman718 wrote:
franco12 wrote:no one is beating GS or Cavs until that team has more talented stars or Lebron/Curry start to get too old to be dominant.

We're probably 2-3 years away from the playoffs, so I don't think we need to worry about beating either team...

SLAP!

It's true though. We're not going to catch them now so don't worry about them. In 2-3 years if we continue to build and get lucky, they might be trying to catch us. That's the goal. Players get old and a new wave comes in to take the spotlight. We should be one of those to teams of the next generation... we have to focus on catching that next wave

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Vmart
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5/5/2017  3:58 PM
EnySpree wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:those 2 team score more because they score fast and shoot 3's a high rate and take more FT's..

Their best player does not hold the ball.
Durant had a problem with Westbrook because Russel would keep probing and when the clock ran down, he gave it to Durant. Durant was not appreciative of bailing him out.
Westbrook MVP? 47 wins and first round exit? Harden stats a bit less, but 54 wins and in the second round.

It's most valuable player, not team.... Harden has a legit beef but Westbrook did something that hasn't happened in 40 years...

Otherwise LeBron should get it every year... that's what we said about Jordan. Sometimes you have to award the special player. Westbrook is that dude this year.... if there ever was a co mvp... it would be Harden and Westbrook

Here is why LeBron doesn't deserve the MVP. He plays with excess talent. They easily have two other players who would be the top player on other teams in Kyrie and Love. The amount of role playing talent comes in waves there are decent players who are third options on most teams. With that said they under achieved all year long. Should be easily a 60+ win team.
nykshaknbake
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5/5/2017  6:41 PM
Vmart wrote:
EnySpree wrote:
Nalod wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:those 2 team score more because they score fast and shoot 3's a high rate and take more FT's..

Their best player does not hold the ball.
Durant had a problem with Westbrook because Russel would keep probing and when the clock ran down, he gave it to Durant. Durant was not appreciative of bailing him out.
Westbrook MVP? 47 wins and first round exit? Harden stats a bit less, but 54 wins and in the second round.

It's most valuable player, not team.... Harden has a legit beef but Westbrook did something that hasn't happened in 40 years...

Otherwise LeBron should get it every year... that's what we said about Jordan. Sometimes you have to award the special player. Westbrook is that dude this year.... if there ever was a co mvp... it would be Harden and Westbrook

Here is why LeBron doesn't deserve the MVP. He plays with excess talent. They easily have two other players who would be the top player on other teams in Kyrie and Love. The amount of role playing talent comes in waves there are decent players who are third options on most teams. With that said they under achieved all year long. Should be easily a 60+ win team.

True, but that team is absolutely lost when LBJ is resting. I think the Knicks would sweep them in a 7 game series without Lebron.
nixluva
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5/5/2017  6:51 PM
Lebron is a singularly ALL TIME GREAT player and you can't use his team as a reference for anything. We aren't likely to add a plyaer like Lebron who is a generational great. It's also hard to duplicate exactly what the Warriors have. You can hope but it's really hard to be that fortunate to gather that kind of talent.

The Knicks have to follow their own path to building a Contender. That path isn't as easy to see at this stage but hopefully it becomes clearer as we move along in this process of building a new team. We have young Core players that we have to allow time to fully develop. There's no cheating on that.
Vmart
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5/5/2017  7:59 PM
The Knicks have to be ready for the next wave. The undefeated Father Time will make his usual appearance and reduce LeBron to mortal status. KP or who ever they draft has to be ready to say I'm next to be the GOAT.
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Very tough to beat either Golden State or the Cavs
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