The truth is he was going to have to make changes and there wasn't really a clear path forward to success. It's not like there was a single or even a couple of clear moves that was guaranteed to make this a contender. He tried to make it work with Melo at the core and nothing worked.

Now what is CRYSTAL CLEAR is that a new core needs to be built and Melo is no longer the focal point of how the team will be built!!! The time hasn't been wasted because he drafted KP and Willy. He also has some young role players that look like they fit. What he has to do now is Draft another STUD and more quality players for the future!!! We've got all our picks and Cap Space, so what is the real problem with understanding this path forward???

nixluva wrote:Phil may not be a GOOD Prez/GM. We don't really know the full story yet. .... We've got all our picks and Cap Space, so what is the real problem with understanding this path forward???

Under the new CBA, every team has cap space or can create it with a little effort. It's not 2006 anymore. Most teams don't go wild and gut all their draft picks, maybe a dumb team like the Kings or the former Nets do, but most teams are pretty moderate and responsible in that regard.

What I'm saying is stop blowing Phil Jackson for what most teams do anyway or can do anyway.

Like Chris Rock says, no one should get applause for raising their kids and taking care of them, you are supposed to take care of your kids. You aren't supposed to be congratulated for what you are supposed to do anyway.

Here's the full story, Jackson traded the next three years of the Knicks future for a half backed chance at the 8th playoff seed this year. The short term quick fix attempts with Rose and Noah have and had real long term damage to the franchise.

"I show up on time to my job!"

"I don't cheat on my wife!"

"I don't rob, maim, rape and terrorize people around me!"

Way to have low low low expectations.

Sorry, I will not clap for Phil Jackson for doing the bare minimum he's supposed to do anyway, but the Knicks have suffered so long, it looks like it's total genius to some.

BRIGGS wrote:phil has been here. It's not happening EVER-- that's reality. Get rid of Phil Jackson -- this job was over his head and he was neither flexible or transparent. He's a coach not a President

You realize Dolan will select his replacement don't you- who would you prefer? Mills, Houston or IT? Because those are your options. I wish those calling for Phils head would think ahead first.

All anyone would have to do when they took over when Phil did was stop trading firsts, and wait until you have your first rounders back, then build via the draft. Thats what Phil has done, but people are in tears about it because it requires losing. This is why IT use to say you can't rebuild in new york. Do you think Suns & lakers fans are crying right now? Or are they looking forward to Fultz or Ball?

Or do you have some sort of ingenious plan that somehow adds young, elite players not via the draft? Please share it with us!

TripleThreat wrote:Drafting Zinger doesn't make him a genius
Skill happens when you take a late pick and turn it into gold ( i.e. the Spurs getting Tony Parker)

stopstandthere wrote:I think we need something other than triangle, this is something out of dated. Forget it folks.

If its not the triangle out well be something else... we are as good as our stars. Melo doesn't want to pass. Rose doesn't want to do anything but force himself inside. We need a coach that wants to cater to them. If Melo was younger then we can play that game... fire everyone and build around them. That's not happening with Melo turning 33. Phil has to see his contract out... We need this lottery pick. We need to keep getting younger, build the foundation... We are 2 years away. That's how you rebuild. I don't want a new anything until Phil contract is up

fishmike wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:Drafting Zinger doesn't make him a genius
Skill happens when you take a late pick and turn it into gold ( i.e. the Spurs getting Tony Parker)

How much more do you need to see from Willy before he falls into that category? Honest question...

He said Gold so while WH has looked like a great find he has work to do to be considered a gold like Parker or other 2nd rd or late 1sts. Parker at one time was considered an elite pg for a few years. Only time will tell if Willy gets to that level but I have liked what I've seen from Willy. Who knows maybe he becomes the next Jokic, now that's Gold.

smackeddog wrote:

franco12 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:phil has been here. It's not happening EVER-- that's reality. Get rid of Phil Jackson -- this job was over his head and he was neither flexible or transparent. He's a coach not a President

You realize Dolan will select his replacement don't you- who would you prefer? Mills, Houston or IT? Because those are your options. I wish those calling for Phils head would think ahead first.

All anyone would have to do when they took over when Phil did was stop trading firsts, and wait until you have your first rounders back, then build via the draft. Thats what Phil has done, but people are in tears about it because it requires losing. This is why IT use to say you can't rebuild in new york. Do you think Suns & lakers fans are crying right now? Or are they looking forward to Fultz or Ball?

Or do you have some sort of ingenious plan that somehow adds young, elite players not via the draft? Please share it with us!

I used to think having Phil keep Dolan out was worth it.

I don't any more, and honestly, if Mills or Houston or Isiah is running things, could it be worse?

The only thing Phil gets is kudos for not trading first round picks.

That's his sole accomplishment above and beyond his predecessors.

As long as his replacement accepts building through the draft, restocking talent as requirement 1, I'm good.

If not, Dolan is the owner and I'm moving on as a fan.

Er yes! Have you forgotten the IT era already? Remember When Dolan and Mills were last in charge? We were begging for change!

Whoever is in charge all they have to do is keep our picks and rebuild via the draft (this is not rocket science)- that requires losing for a while. Phil has picked well with KP and Willy, so why not trust him to do that for 2 more years- what do you want the new GM to do differently?

Let me first say- I, like most of us, don't have all the information we need to be right.

But it seems to me that Phil has insisted on running his beloved system, it's not applicable to today's NBA/Athlete.

While we were in a hole from a talent stand point, Phil has turned over the roster 3x and we've not gotten better, and I could argue worse.

While he has drafted well and added some nice players - Willy, Baker, Kuz- I worry the continued insistence on running the triangle will continue to limit our options and undermine our coach.

I would welcome Isiah back if he pledged to never trade a first round pick & to stay away from any big FA signings for 2-3 years. I think you could argue he has a better draft record than Phil, albeit Phil's is limited.

Paris907 wrote:The Ny Media is filled with Phil hatred. Sure, he's not Riles but Melo ain't Kobe either. The Rose deal, The Jennings deal were 1 year deals that I've no issue with. As Noah was a former defensive player of the year he was worth the gamble and it didn't pan out. I thought firing two coaches could have been avoided and didn't think the latter ready for prime time.

What will Phil be remembered for as Pres in NY? I propose that the wheel wheel is still in spin. Grab a Monk or a Fox or another young two way player to play with KP. Lee is fine and so is Lance and OQuinn and Randle among others but the core is undefined. Phil wants to build a championship team not a .500 ball club. Is Willy partnof that? Maybe. But two years from now all the Phil hatred will be under the bridge if there's a young dynamic team in Place and if NY will suddenly be a place that FAs want to be.

why does everyone say the Noah deal was a worthwhile gamble? It was like playing russian roulette with 5 rounds loaded. Wrong side of 30, recent history of major injuries.

franco12 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

franco12 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:phil has been here. It's not happening EVER-- that's reality. Get rid of Phil Jackson -- this job was over his head and he was neither flexible or transparent. He's a coach not a President

You realize Dolan will select his replacement don't you- who would you prefer? Mills, Houston or IT? Because those are your options. I wish those calling for Phils head would think ahead first.

All anyone would have to do when they took over when Phil did was stop trading firsts, and wait until you have your first rounders back, then build via the draft. Thats what Phil has done, but people are in tears about it because it requires losing. This is why IT use to say you can't rebuild in new york. Do you think Suns & lakers fans are crying right now? Or are they looking forward to Fultz or Ball?

Or do you have some sort of ingenious plan that somehow adds young, elite players not via the draft? Please share it with us!

I used to think having Phil keep Dolan out was worth it.

I don't any more, and honestly, if Mills or Houston or Isiah is running things, could it be worse?

The only thing Phil gets is kudos for not trading first round picks.

That's his sole accomplishment above and beyond his predecessors.

As long as his replacement accepts building through the draft, restocking talent as requirement 1, I'm good.

If not, Dolan is the owner and I'm moving on as a fan.

Er yes! Have you forgotten the IT era already? Remember When Dolan and Mills were last in charge? We were begging for change!

Whoever is in charge all they have to do is keep our picks and rebuild via the draft (this is not rocket science)- that requires losing for a while. Phil has picked well with KP and Willy, so why not trust him to do that for 2 more years- what do you want the new GM to do differently?

Let me first say- I, like most of us, don't have all the information we need to be right.

But it seems to me that Phil has insisted on running his beloved system, it's not applicable to today's NBA/Athlete.

While we were in a hole from a talent stand point, Phil has turned over the roster 3x and we've not gotten better, and I could argue worse.

While he has drafted well and added some nice players - Willy, Baker, Kuz- I worry the continued insistence on running the triangle will continue to limit our options and undermine our coach.

I would welcome Isiah back if he pledged to never trade a first round pick & to stay away from any big FA signings for 2-3 years. I think you could argue he has a better draft record than Phil, albeit Phil's is limited.

and what did Isiah do that warrants this? Isiah put together a team on paper that was good, but won 23 games and salary was 119 million at a time the next team was 80 million!!!
He traded picks, got worse, and left us in a huge talent hole. If You give phil 2-3 more years you might actually have a good foundation.

How antiquated has the system gotten in the last 7 years? Is Kobe/Pau really a throwback type player to a bygone era?
Not even phil has said they would run the Triangle 100% of the time. What do the top NBA teams do that others don't?

Ball Movement. I've seen Melo do it. He is very good at it. He has not given himself to it. Rose, avg'd almost 8 assists his MVP year. He can create. I've seen him do it.
They are not doing it.