holfresh wrote:Our current front office people hasn't provided any buffers for Dolan and any sound advice in hirings over the past decade...Hanging on to them for the purpose "continuity" is just means it's business as usual...And sure they can stay in minor roles at best..It's time we get new NY blood in the organization..We need a new direction...

Isn't that what we have always done? Phil and Walsh were supposed to be those "new direction" type power moves. Both bring in big time personalities that shift the direction of the organization. The problem is, we still have the same owner and media feeds off of the change, turning every move into a circus. Maybe it's time to take a different approach and build from within and keep everything more low-key, which would keep the drama at a minimum. I don't know what the right answer is, no one does. But seems like we have done exactly what you are suggesting many times, but the result will always be the same with Dolan running the show. The change in approach needs to be focusing on building from within, rebuilding with youth, scouting (which seems to be solid), and allowing our young core to build together with minimum outside noise. Continuous change typically results in higher expectations and more disappointments. Time to dial things down a bit.

Bruh.... we have all our picks. 1 borderline allstar per fwd. One up and coming big man. Ron Baker has potential. We have a healthy Cap situation. Phil is chill contrary to popular belief... all is good in knick land. We are already rebuilding

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:Our current front office people hasn't provided any buffers for Dolan and any sound advice in hirings over the past decade...Hanging on to them for the purpose "continuity" is just means it's business as usual...And sure they can stay in minor roles at best..It's time we get new NY blood in the organization..We need a new direction...

Isn't that what we have always done? Phil and Walsh were supposed to be those "new direction" type power moves. Both bring in big time personalities that shift the direction of the organization. The problem is, we still have the same owner and media feeds off of the change, turning every move into a circus. Maybe it's time to take a different approach and build from within and keep everything more low-key, which would keep the drama at a minimum. I don't know what the right answer is, no one does. But seems like we have done exactly what you are suggesting many times, but the result will always be the same with Dolan running the show. The change in approach needs to be focusing on building from within, rebuilding with youth, scouting (which seems to be solid), and allowing our young core to build together with minimum outside noise. Continuous change typically results in higher expectations and more disappointments. Time to dial things down a bit.

The first step is always the same - acceptance of failure.
Dolan and Mills have to step out and clearly articulate to the world and organization the following:
1. Knicks as bbal franchise failed.
2. We recognized it and are in position to start building the club from ground up.
3. We have some promising development peaces to start with (KP, Hernangomez, etc.) and we are commuted to them.
4. We have some veteran players whom we invited to participate with the awareness that team will not be any good until their contract expired. If they want to participate we are welcome but their responsibilities will be to participate in rebuild.
5. We are sticking to system and development coach
6. We are planning to rebuild the relationship with fan base and media on the premise of trust and mutual understanding of our goals and challenges...
One can keep dreaming...

The Media and some fans want another WALK THE PLANK MSG moment, but IMO that would be a mistake to repeat the same process that hasn't worked in the past. Let Phil and his team finish out his contract and try to build a new core thru the draft.

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:Our current front office people hasn't provided any buffers for Dolan and any sound advice in hirings over the past decade...Hanging on to them for the purpose "continuity" is just means it's business as usual...And sure they can stay in minor roles at best..It's time we get new NY blood in the organization..We need a new direction...

Isn't that what we have always done? Phil and Walsh were supposed to be those "new direction" type power moves. Both bring in big time personalities that shift the direction of the organization. The problem is, we still have the same owner and media feeds off of the change, turning every move into a circus. Maybe it's time to take a different approach and build from within and keep everything more low-key, which would keep the drama at a minimum. I don't know what the right answer is, no one does. But seems like we have done exactly what you are suggesting many times, but the result will always be the same with Dolan running the show. The change in approach needs to be focusing on building from within, rebuilding with youth, scouting (which seems to be solid), and allowing our young core to build together with minimum outside noise. Continuous change typically results in higher expectations and more disappointments. Time to dial things down a bit.

Let's step back for a second...What have we learned in the last 18 years??..It doesn't matter what talent we have on the floor, if the front office, management doesn't have a plan and on the same page at the coach and players, it really doesn't matter...We brought in two old men who could no longer connect with today's players..I'm also not suggesting this can be done overnight..We need to build a management infrastructure for the long haul..I have not suggested any short term measures that we are used to seeing...I have suggested bringing people who know the organization and the market...Bring in people who are familiar with today's players...There are no quick fixes...

arkrud wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:Our current front office people hasn't provided any buffers for Dolan and any sound advice in hirings over the past decade...Hanging on to them for the purpose "continuity" is just means it's business as usual...And sure they can stay in minor roles at best..It's time we get new NY blood in the organization..We need a new direction...

Isn't that what we have always done? Phil and Walsh were supposed to be those "new direction" type power moves. Both bring in big time personalities that shift the direction of the organization. The problem is, we still have the same owner and media feeds off of the change, turning every move into a circus. Maybe it's time to take a different approach and build from within and keep everything more low-key, which would keep the drama at a minimum. I don't know what the right answer is, no one does. But seems like we have done exactly what you are suggesting many times, but the result will always be the same with Dolan running the show. The change in approach needs to be focusing on building from within, rebuilding with youth, scouting (which seems to be solid), and allowing our young core to build together with minimum outside noise. Continuous change typically results in higher expectations and more disappointments. Time to dial things down a bit.

The first step is always the same - acceptance of failure.
Dolan and Mills have to step out and clearly articulate to the world and organization the following:
1. Knicks as bbal franchise failed.
2. We recognized it and are in position to start building the club from ground up.
3. We have some promising development peaces to start with (KP, Hernangomez, etc.) and we are commuted to them.
4. We have some veteran players whom we invited to participate with the awareness that team will not be any good until their contract expired. If they want to participate we are welcome but their responsibilities will be to participate in rebuild.
5. We are sticking to system and development coach
6. We are planning to rebuild the relationship with fan base and media on the premise of trust and mutual understanding of our goals and challenges...
One can keep dreaming...

Agree, this is exactly what we need to see, however unlikely.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Is this a post from 2017 or 2007?

Bruh.... we have all our picks. 1 borderline allstar per fwd. One up and coming big man. Ron Baker has potential. We have a healthy Cap situation. Phil is chill contrary to popular belief... all is good in knick land. We are already rebuilding

Honestly, you have no idea if Phil is rebuilding or not..I suggest to you that Phil has no idea if he is rebuilding or not..He just gave 32 yr old Noah 72 mil over 4 years and signed Lee to 4 years too..He is giving Rose a look over...You and I have no clue what's happening and Phil isn't saying...Bruh...

ASSETS. When you sign guys part of it is to have tradeable assets. Noah isn't going anywhere but Lee can most certainly help a team. I think the calculation now is the only logical course is to move forward with the rebuild. Phil kept that as an option the entire time and now the timing is PERFECT!!!

That's you and others plan, Phil hasn't stated his plan..You are making it up...Phil's actions are completely different than your plan..

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:Our current front office people hasn't provided any buffers for Dolan and any sound advice in hirings over the past decade...Hanging on to them for the purpose "continuity" is just means it's business as usual...And sure they can stay in minor roles at best..It's time we get new NY blood in the organization..We need a new direction...

Isn't that what we have always done? Phil and Walsh were supposed to be those "new direction" type power moves. Both bring in big time personalities that shift the direction of the organization. The problem is, we still have the same owner and media feeds off of the change, turning every move into a circus. Maybe it's time to take a different approach and build from within and keep everything more low-key, which would keep the drama at a minimum. I don't know what the right answer is, no one does. But seems like we have done exactly what you are suggesting many times, but the result will always be the same with Dolan running the show. The change in approach needs to be focusing on building from within, rebuilding with youth, scouting (which seems to be solid), and allowing our young core to build together with minimum outside noise. Continuous change typically results in higher expectations and more disappointments. Time to dial things down a bit.

Let's step back for a second...What have we learned in the last 18 years??..It doesn't matter what talent we have on the floor, if the front office, management doesn't have a plan and on the same page at the coach and players, it really doesn't matter...We brought in two old men who could no longer connect with today's players..I'm also not suggesting this can be done overnight..We need to build a management infrastructure for the long haul..I have not suggested any short term measures that we are used to seeing...I have suggested bringing people to know the organization and the market...Bring in people who are familiar with today's players...There are no quick fixes...

I could not disagree more. It starts with the players and has always started with the players. If you have strong veteran leadership that buys into your culture it works. If you have veterans that have their own agendas your team will be dysfunctional.

What was the one time we have been successful in the last forever? The year we had Jason Kidd running the team and we established a style of play that was P&R, ball movement and defense. Backing him where guys like Tyson and Sheed and we build a whole team around guys like that.

Now our veteran leadership is Melo. Its being the face of the franchise, going to the AS games, building his brand, climbing the scoring list and being happy in NYC with you family. That is the current culture and wont change until there is another bigger more important player on the roster or he leaves. Not a bad guy but we are asking him to be something he isnt. Fail by management? Yes. However appeasing Melo isnt the fix, moving on without him is.

When Melo is gone, and its young guys and vets like Lee and Noah the culture will instantly change. When this is Jeff's team the culture will change. Its not his team and wont be so long as Melo is here. If Melo is surrounded by guys like I mentioned we can win, but we have neither the time or assets to build that roster, and its a 2nd round roster at best as history has shown us. I believe Melo has advanced in the playoffs twice.

It 100% comes down the guys on the floor. Knicks want to play a style that Melo doesnt want to play. Jeff wants to push pace and move the ball. Melo wants to hold it and look for his shots. Everything else is window dressing and that situation isnt changing. DadMelo is a broken dream. He is not going to lead a young roster, move the ball and play hard on defense. Phil may be a douche and an arrogant prick and may have handled the Melo situation poorly, but he's also right in the source of the problem.

The spin has to stop...Please be honest...Ray Felton was running the offense not Kidd...What was our record when Ray got hurt mid-season??..Woodson's defense was giving up 95 points per game..Phil want to run the triangle..The coach and players don't want to run the triangle...Melo, Melo, Melo...The Fish rots at the head...

holfresh wrote:

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

holfresh wrote:Our current front office people hasn't provided any buffers for Dolan and any sound advice in hirings over the past decade...Hanging on to them for the purpose "continuity" is just means it's business as usual...And sure they can stay in minor roles at best..It's time we get new NY blood in the organization..We need a new direction...

Isn't that what we have always done? Phil and Walsh were supposed to be those "new direction" type power moves. Both bring in big time personalities that shift the direction of the organization. The problem is, we still have the same owner and media feeds off of the change, turning every move into a circus. Maybe it's time to take a different approach and build from within and keep everything more low-key, which would keep the drama at a minimum. I don't know what the right answer is, no one does. But seems like we have done exactly what you are suggesting many times, but the result will always be the same with Dolan running the show. The change in approach needs to be focusing on building from within, rebuilding with youth, scouting (which seems to be solid), and allowing our young core to build together with minimum outside noise. Continuous change typically results in higher expectations and more disappointments. Time to dial things down a bit.

Let's step back for a second...What have we learned in the last 18 years??..It doesn't matter what talent we have on the floor, if the front office, management doesn't have a plan and on the same page at the coach and players, it really doesn't matter...We brought in two old men who could no longer connect with today's players..I'm also not suggesting this can be done overnight..We need to build a management infrastructure for the long haul..I have not suggested any short term measures that we are used to seeing...I have suggested bringing people to know the organization and the market...Bring in people who are familiar with today's players...There are no quick fixes...

I could not disagree more. It starts with the players and has always started with the players. If you have strong veteran leadership that buys into your culture it works. If you have veterans that have their own agendas your team will be dysfunctional.

What was the one time we have been successful in the last forever? The year we had Jason Kidd running the team and we established a style of play that was P&R, ball movement and defense. Backing him where guys like Tyson and Sheed and we build a whole team around guys like that.

Now our veteran leadership is Melo. Its being the face of the franchise, going to the AS games, building his brand, climbing the scoring list and being happy in NYC with you family. That is the current culture and wont change until there is another bigger more important player on the roster or he leaves. Not a bad guy but we are asking him to be something he isnt. Fail by management? Yes. However appeasing Melo isnt the fix, moving on without him is.

When Melo is gone, and its young guys and vets like Lee and Noah the culture will instantly change. When this is Jeff's team the culture will change. Its not his team and wont be so long as Melo is here. If Melo is surrounded by guys like I mentioned we can win, but we have neither the time or assets to build that roster, and its a 2nd round roster at best as history has shown us. I believe Melo has advanced in the playoffs twice.

It 100% comes down the guys on the floor. Knicks want to play a style that Melo doesnt want to play. Jeff wants to push pace and move the ball. Melo wants to hold it and look for his shots. Everything else is window dressing and that situation isnt changing. DadMelo is a broken dream. He is not going to lead a young roster, move the ball and play hard on defense. Phil may be a douche and an arrogant prick and may have handled the Melo situation poorly, but he's also right in the source of the problem.

The spin has to stop...Please be honest...Ray Felton was running the offense not Kidd...What was our record when Ray got hurt mid-season??..Woodson's defense was giving up 95 points per game..Phil want to run the triangle..The coach and players don't want to run the triangle...Melo, Melo, Melo...The Fish rots at the head...

Anthony wanted to find Kidd, who had scored half as many points but who Anthony knew had had just as big an effect on the game. Anthony went over to Kidd to hug him and say “thank you.”

That signified just how much Anthony, the Knicks’ best player, values having Kidd as a teammate.

“I think it’s huge,” Kidd said of what it meant to receive the hug. “I think he trusts me coming down the stretch.”

Anthony put his faith in Kidd when the Knicks trailed the Nuggets early in the fourth quarter. During a timeout, Coach Mike Woodson wanted Anthony to be the focal point of the team’s offense. Anthony had a different idea.

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“He told me, ‘Let’s play through you,’ ” Kidd said. “Coach wanted to play through Carmelo, but Carmelo was like, ‘No, I want to play through Jason.’ I think that’s the greatest compliment a teammate can get.”

Billups said Melo needs strong leadership.
Tyson said Melo needs strong leadership.

You just keep ignoring the facts because they dont suit your agenda. Jeff doesnt run the triangle much and Phil was fine with that. Has said so openly. They thought Melo would roll with their plan. Its just not in the cards. Its gonna be a messy breakup but needs to happen.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/sports/basketball/carmelo-anthony-likes-knicks-offense-to-go-through-jason-kidd.html