The future is bright but the 2nd part of the plan is not doing well because phil chose 2 wrong vets in rose and noah.

dacash wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I think the plan was to build for the future through the draft and take young undrafted free agents but also to stay relevant by getting some vets to compete like rose, Noah and clee.

The future is bright but the 2nd part of the plan is not doing well because phil chose 2 wrong vets in rose and noah.

Giving a 32 year old center with a disastrous downward directory 72 mm is not really a plan
but in current managements mind it had to have been. Having a perpetual plan to remove Carmello after giving him 125mm and a ntc is not a plan it's been a distractive disaster.
When I watch the K Ickes it's no different from when Isiah was here it's still a jumbled mess.maybe the owner should sell the team once and for all

during tyhe others tenure they traded away draft picks to get guys. phil has not , yes there is a plan , but there is also the cant rebuild in ny thing. and once again that was market price for noah washington was paying him more i think and lots of others got equally large sums of money.I dont think his breakdown was anticipated as being this early or this great. i realize hindsight is 20/20 but ppl come on.

Briggs overstates how bad its been, but it's a fair comparison. I hated the Noah move, and I have a hard time understanding how anyone can accept the thinking that went into it.

BRIGGS wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I think the plan was to build for the future through the draft and take young undrafted free agents but also to stay relevant by getting some vets to compete like rose, Noah and clee.

The future is bright but the 2nd part of the plan is not doing well because phil chose 2 wrong vets in rose and noah.

Giving a 32 year old center with a disastrous downward directory 72 mm is not really a plan
but in current managements mind it had to have been. Having a perpetual plan to remove Carmello after giving him 125mm and a ntc is not a plan it's been a distractive disaster.
When I watch the K Ickes it's no different from when Isiah was here it's still a jumbled mess.maybe the owner should sell the team once and for all

Rose, Noah, CLee, and Jennings were a gamble but I can see the appeal. Rose is a low risk high reward type get with an ending huge contract. If he doesn't work out then you clear cap space. Noah was signed because they thought it would help Rose plus he is a good locker room guy that our youngins needed.

We are still in the thick of things and can go north or south. A few tweaks via trade can really push us north or south.

The fact that we have a plan makes me happy. Donnie had a plan until Dolan messed him up. Popcorn man had a fluid ever changing plan that I hated. I am loving what Big Chief Triangle has done.

franco12 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:I think the plan was to build for the future through the draft and take young undrafted free agents but also to stay relevant by getting some vets to compete like rose, Noah and clee.

The future is bright but the 2nd part of the plan is not doing well because phil chose 2 wrong vets in rose and noah.

Giving a 32 year old center with a disastrous downward directory 72 mm is not really a plan
but in current managements mind it had to have been. Having a perpetual plan to remove Carmello after giving him 125mm and a ntc is not a plan it's been a distractive disaster.
When I watch the K Ickes it's no different from when Isiah was here it's still a jumbled mess.maybe the owner should sell the team once and for all

You have to admit that the 1st part is working pretty well. KP, Willy, Kuz, Holiday, Baker, Plumlee and NDour is a good youth movement. Plus the fact that we have all our future picks plus 2 extra 2nd round picks this year is pretty good.

Rose, Noah, CLee, and Jennings were a gamble but I can see the appeal. Rose is a low risk high reward type get with an ending huge contract. If he doesn't work out then you clear cap space. Noah was signed because they thought it would help Rose plus he is a good locker room guy that our youngins needed.

We are still in the thick of things and can go north or south. A few tweaks via trade can really push us north or south.

The fact that we have a plan makes me happy. Donnie had a plan until Dolan messed him up. Popcorn man had a fluid ever changing plan that I hated. I am loving what Big Chief Triangle has done.

Teams that are a few tweaks away aren't regularly down 20+ as often as we have been.

Actually the Knicks could EASILY have won many of those close games. Sometimes it was just a bad bounce or missed shot and often the Refs missed calls, which is a PROVEN fact based on the NBA reports after the game. It's easy to just come away with the simple statement that the Knicks suck, but it's more complicated. This team has a LOT of new players. Young and some new to the NBA. Overall the Knicks are actually competitive in MOST of their games.

One HUGE issue is that our starting lineup should not be what it is IMO. I know Noah is being paid to be the starter but come on already! He's been outplayed by the bench for months now. We've got some younger guys that should be gradually relied on more. It's just not the DARK and GLOOMY picture that some want to paint. It's not what was hoped for in terms of the Vets performance but the younger guys have been doing well. That's the key part to highlight. The FUTURE of this team is where the focus needs to be placed.

markvmc wrote:Of course, if the ball had bounced a little differently in some of the close games we won early in the season, we could have been looking at the third or fourth worst record in the NBA.

The "plan" never existed except to say "in Phil we trust". So far his intangible pickups are awesome compared to the previous two decades. Porzingis, Kuz, Willie, et al.

In terms of signings, Phil did what was possible and not what was ideal but impossible. Rose, Noah, and CLee were both a risk and a package deal that there was no parallel to. The fact is that the Knicks don't get calls and two or three games were as close to a fix as I've ever seen. But, yes they're underperforming.

Second, the development of Willy could not be anticipated. That partially explains the impatience with Noah given that he becomes redundant. Rose remains an enigma and IMO CLee is highly desirable trade bait.

Cartman718 wrote:The plan is to tank and trade Melo. What's the problem

The problem is that made sense YEARS AGO

Below are older lists, but relevant at the time Jackson was hired, of guys who paid their dues and were waiting for a GM gig.

Walk in the door, trade EVERYONE, including Melo and tank and tank mercilessly for a few years and use your cap space to sign guys who have some retrade value and are hopefully younger and with upside. Mine the UDFA and international market relentlessly. Don't trade away all your future draft picks.

Did the Knicks really need to pay a 70 year old first time team runner 60 million bucks to do what they will have to hire some no name to do ANYWAY?

Trade everyone and tank. How hard is that? Any of these young guns below would have figured that out pretty fast.

Good teams don't wait 3-4 years to do what they know they will eventually have to do at some point anyway. But now Melo's trade value is shot and the cap is riddled with bad contracts.

All the Knicks did was burn time.

*****

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-who-are-the-next-wave-of-gms/

Doug Collins: As bad as it went for Collins in his final days with Philadelphia, there is still a sense that he has some fans among NBA owners looking for a “face-of-the-franchise” guy. It’s possible that Collins gets his name associated with some of the front office jobs that come up, but there is doubt in NBA circles that Collins would be back with a team so quickly. When it comes to known candidates Collins is that, but its seems unlikely that he is hired this year, but he does seem like someone that’s going to get linked to jobs based on feedback from others around the league.

Joe Dumars: The worst kept secret in the NBA is that Dumars is out in Detroit. Those around the process call it a mutual decision. Reports from the region say Dumars will hang around as an adviser to the team while he finds his next job. Word is he may have one, and it’s not the Cavaliers, however other things have to play out first. Do not be surprised to see Dumars land in a team president’s chair fairly quickly after the season ends and teams begin to make changes.

Tony Ronzone: Currently with the Dallas Mavericks as Director of Player Personnel, Ronzone is a seasoned veteran. He has coached at virtually every level and was responsible for international scouting for Team USA for years. Ronzone was the first American to coach the Chinese National team and has organized and held clinics in more than 50 countries. He’s won gold medals and NBA championships. Ronzone has a track record for finding the diamond-in-the-rough type players and is a world traveler. Ronzone was in the mix for the Sacramento job last year and was a name mentioned by several insiders as one of the better pure basketball guys of the bunch. Few would-be front office candidates have Ronzone’s basketball pedigree. He is absolutely a name to watch this summer.

Chad Buchanan: When asked to list potential candidates for soon-to-open General Manager spots, Buchanan’s name was one of the first mentioned by a wide range of NBA insiders. Buchanan acted as the interim general manager in Portland prior to the hiring of Neil Olshey and is well liked and respected in NBA circles. Buchanan is currently the Director of College Scouting for the Blazers, and combined with the team’s draft history and their current on-court success Buchanan is a name to watch, especially as teams look for a new face and a new direction.

David Morway: Most of what the Indiana Pacers have today came on Morway’s watch. The Pacers have always had a complex decision making hierarchy and Morway typically played the role of day-to-day manager. Morway is a smooth front-facing executive who is smart with the cap and a good day-to-day leader. As teams like New York look for someone to run the show every day, Morway becomes an interesting candidate. Morway was one of the finalists for the Sacramento Kings job and was in the running for Phoenix too. It’s very likely that Morway is at the head of the class this summer as well. Morway is currently the Assistant General Manager in Milwaukee and with the team potentially being sold this summer, change at the top in Milwaukee could push the current staff out and open that situation up for new faces there too.

Bobby Marks: Another name that appeared on virtually everyone’s list was Brooklyn’s Bobby Marks, in fact there was talk last summer that Marks was on Memphis’ radar to replace Chris Wallace, who was doing the dance with Sacramento. Marks is highly respected both for his understanding of the front office of a NBA team, but also as a scout and talent evaluator. Most insiders who commented on potential openings labeled Marks as a ‘can’t miss hire’.

Mark Hughes: Another name that was on virtually every list was New York’s Mark Hughes. Hughes’ background is more on the coaching side too, having coached in the CBA for several years before landing with the Orlando Magic in 2002. Hughes has been a scout with Knicks for several years and currently carries the title of Director of Pro Personnel for the them. Hughes is extremely well liked and people that have worked with him say it’s simply a matter of time before he is running a NBA team.

Frank Ross: Currently with the Washington Wizards as Director of Player Personnel, Ross also spent some time as a scout for the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Charlotte Bobcats. Ross was a highly touted player at American University. Ross’ name surfaced on a number of lists and from all accounts he is a name that could sneak into a job this year much like Rob Hennigan did in Orlando two years ago and Ryan McDonough did last year in Phoenix.

Ryan Carr: Currently the director of scouting for the Indiana Pacers, Carr was another name on several lists. Carr has been a key part in the Pacers’ overhaul and with the success they have had this year he is likely going to be mentioned in connection with more than a few open jobs. Carr has been more of a behind the scenes guy in Indiana, but when you look at the gems they have found late in the draft, Carr has been a big part of that.

Adam Simon: When you think of the Miami HEAT you normally don’t get very far down the list, mainly because of how compartmentalized the organization is, however Simon was a name mentioned several times by insiders as a guy that is likely going to get looks from NBA teams. Simon has been with the HEAT in almost every capacity possible including serving as a video intern at one point. Simon currently carries the title Assistant General Manager for the HEAT, but also acts as the team’s D-League affiliate General Manager. Simon is well regarded as a talent evaluator and a solid cap guy. He too could be an under-the-radar hire this year, much like Pete D’Alessandro was for Sacramento last year.

Matt Lloyd: In the first installment of this list last week, Orlando Assistant General Manager Scott Perry made the list, however several NBA insiders were adamant that Magic Assistant GM Matt Lloyd was more likely to land a GM job first. Lloyd has come up from the bottom, starting as a member of the game night staff in Chicago while working his way into media relations and ultimately into a scouting role with the Bulls. Lloyd is an extremely hard worker and has a solid basketball resume. Lloyd has done a lot of the heavy lifting for the Magic on the draft front for the last two years and has been a key part of the Magic’s rebuild. If the insiders are right, look for Lloyd to get some looks around the NBA this summer.

Justin Zanik: Currently the assistant general manager of the Utah Jazz, Zanik was a long-time sports agent. Zanik is as dialed into the international scene as almost anyone, but when it comes to savvy deal making Zanik is among the tops in the business. Given that Zanik just landed the Jazz job it might take him another year or two before he gets real consideration for a GM job, but he is absolutely a candidate worth talking to.

Gersson Rosas: Currently with the Houston Rockets, Gersson left last summer for a brief stint with the Dallas Mavericks that did not work out. Highly regarded in NBA circles as a keen talent evaluator, Rosa handled the General Manager duties for the Rockets D-League team the Rio Grande Vipers during two championship runs. Rosa has held virtually every job you can hold in a NBA front office, Rossa is a name to watch again this summer.

http://www.thesportster.com/basketball/top-10-future-general-managers-in-the-nba/

1. Troy Weaver, Oklahoma City Thunder

Troy Weaver, many would say, is distinctively the best candidate for a GM job who has yet to get a chance to oversee a franchise. In the past, he has had several interviews for top NBA front office positions. Weaver has strong scouting abilities, recruiting Carmelo Anthony to the Syracuse team and supposedly led the front office gamble for drafting Russell Westbrook. In addition, he has worked in NBA front office positions for more than one decade. Those are some big aces in his favor, don’t you think?

3. Travis Schlenk, Golden State Warriors

Travis Schlenk worked in Orlando during Chuck Daly’s tenure and went on to join the Golden State Warriors. His experience is combined with scouting and analytics and a solid reputation in a resilient front office, giving him an opportunity to be a GM in the future. When the Sacramento Kings and Detroit Pistons had a GM opening, Travis Schlenk’s name was mentioned. Let’s see what happens next. As the Warriors continue winning, Schlenk’s stock will continue to rise.

5. Brian Pauga, San Antonio Spurs

It’s only normal for teams of any sport to look at the champions’ formula of success, so Brian Pauga being courted is very possible. The list for front office position in the Spurs franchise is deep. Scouting Director, Brian Pauga also operates the D-League Affiliate in Austin, which is an important position for the Spurs organization. Working his way up the ladder of R.C. Buford since 2007, there are many NBA teams that will be demanding him soon. He could be the very guy from this list getting hired soon and thanks goes to the Spurs secretiveness. Don’t be surprised if Pauga gets an interview for GM in the near future.

9. Mike Zarren, Boston Celtics

Personnel boss, Danny Ainge can tell you a lot about Mike Zarren of the Boston Celtics, if you were to ask him. Ainge would tell you that Zarren has a serious analytical mind, knows how to work on salary caps and remains true to the metrics of his community. But the verdict is not yet completely out on this one since a strong analytical mind and salary cap are not the only prerequisites for the GM position. It may not be a bad move though, to give him a chance.

TripleThreat wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:The plan is to tank and trade Melo. What's the problem

The problem is that made sense YEARS AGO

Below are older lists, but relevant at the time Jackson was hired, of guys who paid their dues and were waiting for a GM gig.

Walk in the door, trade EVERYONE, including Melo and tank and tank mercilessly for a few years and use your cap space to sign guys who have some retrade value and are hopefully younger and with upside. Mine the UDFA and international market relentlessly. Don't trade away all your future draft picks.

Did the Knicks really need to pay a 70 year old first time team runner 60 million bucks to do what they will have to hire some no name to do ANYWAY?

Trade everyone and tank. How hard is that? Any of these young guns below would have figured that out pretty fast.

Good teams don't wait 3-4 years to do what they know they will eventually have to do at some point anyway. But now Melo's trade value is shot and the cap is riddled with bad contracts.

All the Knicks did was burn time.

*****

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-who-are-the-next-wave-of-gms/

Doug Collins: As bad as it went for Collins in his final days with Philadelphia, there is still a sense that he has some fans among NBA owners looking for a “face-of-the-franchise” guy. It’s possible that Collins gets his name associated with some of the front office jobs that come up, but there is doubt in NBA circles that Collins would be back with a team so quickly. When it comes to known candidates Collins is that, but its seems unlikely that he is hired this year, but he does seem like someone that’s going to get linked to jobs based on feedback from others around the league.

Joe Dumars: The worst kept secret in the NBA is that Dumars is out in Detroit. Those around the process call it a mutual decision. Reports from the region say Dumars will hang around as an adviser to the team while he finds his next job. Word is he may have one, and it’s not the Cavaliers, however other things have to play out first. Do not be surprised to see Dumars land in a team president’s chair fairly quickly after the season ends and teams begin to make changes.

Tony Ronzone: Currently with the Dallas Mavericks as Director of Player Personnel, Ronzone is a seasoned veteran. He has coached at virtually every level and was responsible for international scouting for Team USA for years. Ronzone was the first American to coach the Chinese National team and has organized and held clinics in more than 50 countries. He’s won gold medals and NBA championships. Ronzone has a track record for finding the diamond-in-the-rough type players and is a world traveler. Ronzone was in the mix for the Sacramento job last year and was a name mentioned by several insiders as one of the better pure basketball guys of the bunch. Few would-be front office candidates have Ronzone’s basketball pedigree. He is absolutely a name to watch this summer.

Chad Buchanan: When asked to list potential candidates for soon-to-open General Manager spots, Buchanan’s name was one of the first mentioned by a wide range of NBA insiders. Buchanan acted as the interim general manager in Portland prior to the hiring of Neil Olshey and is well liked and respected in NBA circles. Buchanan is currently the Director of College Scouting for the Blazers, and combined with the team’s draft history and their current on-court success Buchanan is a name to watch, especially as teams look for a new face and a new direction.

David Morway: Most of what the Indiana Pacers have today came on Morway’s watch. The Pacers have always had a complex decision making hierarchy and Morway typically played the role of day-to-day manager. Morway is a smooth front-facing executive who is smart with the cap and a good day-to-day leader. As teams like New York look for someone to run the show every day, Morway becomes an interesting candidate. Morway was one of the finalists for the Sacramento Kings job and was in the running for Phoenix too. It’s very likely that Morway is at the head of the class this summer as well. Morway is currently the Assistant General Manager in Milwaukee and with the team potentially being sold this summer, change at the top in Milwaukee could push the current staff out and open that situation up for new faces there too.

Bobby Marks: Another name that appeared on virtually everyone’s list was Brooklyn’s Bobby Marks, in fact there was talk last summer that Marks was on Memphis’ radar to replace Chris Wallace, who was doing the dance with Sacramento. Marks is highly respected both for his understanding of the front office of a NBA team, but also as a scout and talent evaluator. Most insiders who commented on potential openings labeled Marks as a ‘can’t miss hire’.

Mark Hughes: Another name that was on virtually every list was New York’s Mark Hughes. Hughes’ background is more on the coaching side too, having coached in the CBA for several years before landing with the Orlando Magic in 2002. Hughes has been a scout with Knicks for several years and currently carries the title of Director of Pro Personnel for the them. Hughes is extremely well liked and people that have worked with him say it’s simply a matter of time before he is running a NBA team.

Frank Ross: Currently with the Washington Wizards as Director of Player Personnel, Ross also spent some time as a scout for the Oklahoma City Thunder and the Charlotte Bobcats. Ross was a highly touted player at American University. Ross’ name surfaced on a number of lists and from all accounts he is a name that could sneak into a job this year much like Rob Hennigan did in Orlando two years ago and Ryan McDonough did last year in Phoenix.

Ryan Carr: Currently the director of scouting for the Indiana Pacers, Carr was another name on several lists. Carr has been a key part in the Pacers’ overhaul and with the success they have had this year he is likely going to be mentioned in connection with more than a few open jobs. Carr has been more of a behind the scenes guy in Indiana, but when you look at the gems they have found late in the draft, Carr has been a big part of that.

Adam Simon: When you think of the Miami HEAT you normally don’t get very far down the list, mainly because of how compartmentalized the organization is, however Simon was a name mentioned several times by insiders as a guy that is likely going to get looks from NBA teams. Simon has been with the HEAT in almost every capacity possible including serving as a video intern at one point. Simon currently carries the title Assistant General Manager for the HEAT, but also acts as the team’s D-League affiliate General Manager. Simon is well regarded as a talent evaluator and a solid cap guy. He too could be an under-the-radar hire this year, much like Pete D’Alessandro was for Sacramento last year.

Matt Lloyd: In the first installment of this list last week, Orlando Assistant General Manager Scott Perry made the list, however several NBA insiders were adamant that Magic Assistant GM Matt Lloyd was more likely to land a GM job first. Lloyd has come up from the bottom, starting as a member of the game night staff in Chicago while working his way into media relations and ultimately into a scouting role with the Bulls. Lloyd is an extremely hard worker and has a solid basketball resume. Lloyd has done a lot of the heavy lifting for the Magic on the draft front for the last two years and has been a key part of the Magic’s rebuild. If the insiders are right, look for Lloyd to get some looks around the NBA this summer.

Justin Zanik: Currently the assistant general manager of the Utah Jazz, Zanik was a long-time sports agent. Zanik is as dialed into the international scene as almost anyone, but when it comes to savvy deal making Zanik is among the tops in the business. Given that Zanik just landed the Jazz job it might take him another year or two before he gets real consideration for a GM job, but he is absolutely a candidate worth talking to.

Gersson Rosas: Currently with the Houston Rockets, Gersson left last summer for a brief stint with the Dallas Mavericks that did not work out. Highly regarded in NBA circles as a keen talent evaluator, Rosa handled the General Manager duties for the Rockets D-League team the Rio Grande Vipers during two championship runs. Rosa has held virtually every job you can hold in a NBA front office, Rossa is a name to watch again this summer.

http://www.thesportster.com/basketball/top-10-future-general-managers-in-the-nba/

1. Troy Weaver, Oklahoma City Thunder

Troy Weaver, many would say, is distinctively the best candidate for a GM job who has yet to get a chance to oversee a franchise. In the past, he has had several interviews for top NBA front office positions. Weaver has strong scouting abilities, recruiting Carmelo Anthony to the Syracuse team and supposedly led the front office gamble for drafting Russell Westbrook. In addition, he has worked in NBA front office positions for more than one decade. Those are some big aces in his favor, don’t you think?

3. Travis Schlenk, Golden State Warriors

Travis Schlenk worked in Orlando during Chuck Daly’s tenure and went on to join the Golden State Warriors. His experience is combined with scouting and analytics and a solid reputation in a resilient front office, giving him an opportunity to be a GM in the future. When the Sacramento Kings and Detroit Pistons had a GM opening, Travis Schlenk’s name was mentioned. Let’s see what happens next. As the Warriors continue winning, Schlenk’s stock will continue to rise.

5. Brian Pauga, San Antonio Spurs

It’s only normal for teams of any sport to look at the champions’ formula of success, so Brian Pauga being courted is very possible. The list for front office position in the Spurs franchise is deep. Scouting Director, Brian Pauga also operates the D-League Affiliate in Austin, which is an important position for the Spurs organization. Working his way up the ladder of R.C. Buford since 2007, there are many NBA teams that will be demanding him soon. He could be the very guy from this list getting hired soon and thanks goes to the Spurs secretiveness. Don’t be surprised if Pauga gets an interview for GM in the near future.

9. Mike Zarren, Boston Celtics

Personnel boss, Danny Ainge can tell you a lot about Mike Zarren of the Boston Celtics, if you were to ask him. Ainge would tell you that Zarren has a serious analytical mind, knows how to work on salary caps and remains true to the metrics of his community. But the verdict is not yet completely out on this one since a strong analytical mind and salary cap are not the only prerequisites for the GM position. It may not be a bad move though, to give him a chance.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with the 3-4 years statement. Knicks drafted KP and Willy who are 21 and 22. Now at worst this summer gives them another batch of young prospects and cap space!!!
How much time could they possibly have lost doing things this way??? ONE YEAR? I think you're exaggerating the situation.