And did we bring in Phil to tank every year? Like some are suggesting. If so, why didnt we just save the money on Phil, tank amd then bring him on when we had a better team? After all, its been noted that Phil does not even make the picks in the draft. Gaines does?

And if his plan was to tank. Why bring over 3 guys that cost us $51 million this year and 2 in Lee and Noah that will cost us $30M a year?

Knixkik wrote:It all depends on the expectation. For those who wanted to build towards the future, he has done that. He found a potential franchise player and plenty of quality young rotation players (Kuz, Baker, Willy, Holiday, O'Quinn.) He has taken a ton of short-term risks and none of them have paid off, but none of them have been at the expense of long-term building. I think he has failed, to me, in his lack of communication abilities. His job was to bring a culture-change, and his weirdness with players and media has prevented that. But to make the selection of Porzingis and maintaining draft picks while adding talent, i commend him. Adding Noah, Lee, Rose, and Jennings, on paper, looked great this summer. That's a lot of talent, and it's not working out. Not sure if that is on him. But regardless, he is getting paid the big bucks to build a team. He has been unable to do that, but at least he has some momentum going forward with the young guys.

Good post. Agree with most. Reason for thread is not so much hindsight criticism but more to note that for a guy, demanding accountability from his staff and players, he does not seem to act like he has any himself. Biggest mistakes right now is Noah and Lee. Lee I give him a pass as he is what he is. But Noah 17M will be a flexibility barrier for 4 years. And was a risk that should have been seen.

Im wondering do we hold him accountable for CLee, Noah, after just half a season, when for most of it, it was quite good and improving?
If the last three years, I kind of get, Phil had to tear it down, and then rebuild from there. He has been handicapped by low value players to trade and 1st round picks.

Kerr would have bailed given a leaky spine. Fish had a leaky morality, inflated ego, and hyperactive post divorce heat seeking missle!! Too soon for him to be coach, but the guy on paper was awesome!

I don't think Phil has made a major mistake. I think he inherited Melo and there was a preordained agreement for a No Trade Clause with Dolan that he had to adhere to. Im ok with that.
Bascially up until 10 games ago I thought this franchise was really doing much better.
If we went .500, would we be freaking out? Not all the games have been disasters, and our unicorn has been hurt.
Im not sure what we should phil should do? A bad stretch on what was a great season and he should:

1. Display humility
2. Publicly flog Rose

His comments on CBS sports when taken in the full context was really not that bad. I think the media makes a big deal out of it.
I thought Derrick Rose if he was freaking out made a bad decision and suspending him kind of is stupid. I got suspended for cutting a day of school in the 9th grade. They suspended me 3 days. My mom said to principal, "This is stupid, you should make him come in on Saturday and clean for 8 hours, not give him more vacation! He will struggle to keep up with his classes if missing more!!!!! Make him do MORE SCHOOL WORK on top!!! She was right. Principle didn't change his mind. He did say we likely learned more going in to Manhattan for the day. Point is Rose bailed, but if suspended he'd be bailing again. If anything he should spend more time with his team and do something either charitable or polish the floor in the gym! He got fined for not playing, its a first offense, he not noted for being a bad teammate or tardy. If it was family, then let it be!
Somtimes kindness and empathy goes a long way to bond people. Punishment to set an example is not always the right thing. JR smith was a chronic clown and needed to be disciplined.

As for Phil, I don't know other than the win/loss record, what else is there? Are we ready to give up on Noah? Courtney was ripping it up two weeks ago, was told to shoot more and was seen as a bargain contract. Now he is a liability?

MS wrote:Now is the time.

Tyson Chandler huge mistake. Signing Derek Fisher to a long term deal, huge mistake. Trading Shumpert and JR for nothing, mistake. Signing Noah huge mistake.

Talking through Rosen huge mistake.

Phil has done something no other GM has. He's kept our pick and added young talent. If we flounder we increase our chance of a blue chip player in the draft. Most of the very good teams were bad long enough to amass that talent in the draft. Green, Curry, Klay come to mind. Its very tough to quickly turn things around in the NBA. It happens yes, but assuming you can duplicate those circumstances isnt realistic. I think he's doing it right. He's added good player and drafted well. It will click when it clicks.

Or we could "hold Phil accountable" for our hurt feelings and 2nd guess every move, despite knowing how silly that is anyway. Tell me the GM you want why its going to be different.

Cracks me up when people like Briggs cry about the signings when the guy was pining to pay Allan Crabbe $18mm a year and the guy is total trash. Noah's value will present itself in time and Lee is a tradable player.

fishmike wrote:

MS wrote:Now is the time.

Tyson Chandler huge mistake. Signing Derek Fisher to a long term deal, huge mistake. Trading Shumpert and JR for nothing, mistake. Signing Noah huge mistake.

Talking through Rosen huge mistake.

Taking Knick job... biggest mistake. I think its obvious after Walsh, Isiah, Phil that this franchise will never learn, and neither will the fans.

Phil has done something no other GM has. He's kept our pick and added young talent. If we flounder we increase our chance of a blue chip player in the draft. Most of the very good teams were bad long enough to amass that talent in the draft. Green, Curry, Klay come to mind. Its very tough to quickly turn things around in the NBA. It happens yes, but assuming you can duplicate those circumstances isnt realistic. I think he's doing it right. He's added good player and drafted well. It will click when it clicks.

Or we could "hold Phil accountable" for our hurt feelings and 2nd guess every move, despite knowing how silly that is anyway. Tell me the GM you want why its going to be different.

Cracks me up when people like Briggs cry about the signings when the guy was pining to pay Allan Crabbe $18mm a year and the guy is total trash. Noah's value will present itself in time and Lee is a tradable player.

He tried to bring in a defensive SG in Lee. He looked like a solid 3nD guy but he's been bad on D this year. I don't think taking a flyer on Rose and BJ was bad at all. He's not locked into either guy long term. So basically Phil is in a good position going into the trade deadline and the offseason.

fishmike wrote:

MS wrote:Now is the time.

Tyson Chandler huge mistake. Signing Derek Fisher to a long term deal, huge mistake. Trading Shumpert and JR for nothing, mistake. Signing Noah huge mistake.

Talking through Rosen huge mistake.

Taking Knick job... biggest mistake. I think its obvious after Walsh, Isiah, Phil that this franchise will never learn, and neither will the fans.

Phil has done something no other GM has. He's kept our pick and added young talent. If we flounder we increase our chance of a blue chip player in the draft. Most of the very good teams were bad long enough to amass that talent in the draft. Green, Curry, Klay come to mind. Its very tough to quickly turn things around in the NBA. It happens yes, but assuming you can duplicate those circumstances isnt realistic. I think he's doing it right. He's added good player and drafted well. It will click when it clicks.

Or we could "hold Phil accountable" for our hurt feelings and 2nd guess every move, despite knowing how silly that is anyway. Tell me the GM you want why its going to be different.

Cracks me up when people like Briggs cry about the signings when the guy was pining to pay Allan Crabbe $18mm a year and the guy is total trash. Noah's value will present itself in time and Lee is a tradable player.

Fair enough. Dont think feelings have anything to do with it. If its fair game to call out players deficiencies, why not a GM's? Second guessing asside. Specially when some were bad judgements. Not to mention, we are talking about Phil Freakin Jackson. Kinda of a higher expectation? No? If Gaines was the one that wanted KP, then we can say that Phil's use was in FA. And sure, guys like Lee filled a void and made sense regardless of how he plays. Noah though? Age, injury history and on a decline? And you sign him for starter money? Rose, injury history, bad fit. Not a great decision either. Would expect more from PJ. Are these his only mistakes and is it a decent batting average. Sure. But thread was, when do we hold him accountable? 3 years, 4,5?

You asked who would do better? Well we would have to know who is working non stop in the office, on the phones building ties, working to make the organazation a player friendly destination, building a consistent hard working enviroment full of excellent flowing communnication channels . Cant say that anyone knows the answer but can tell you there are probably a lot of GM's out there doing these things 24/7.

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

MS wrote:Now is the time.

Tyson Chandler huge mistake. Signing Derek Fisher to a long term deal, huge mistake. Trading Shumpert and JR for nothing, mistake. Signing Noah huge mistake.

Talking through Rosen huge mistake.

Taking Knick job... biggest mistake. I think its obvious after Walsh, Isiah, Phil that this franchise will never learn, and neither will the fans.

Phil has done something no other GM has. He's kept our pick and added young talent. If we flounder we increase our chance of a blue chip player in the draft. Most of the very good teams were bad long enough to amass that talent in the draft. Green, Curry, Klay come to mind. Its very tough to quickly turn things around in the NBA. It happens yes, but assuming you can duplicate those circumstances isnt realistic. I think he's doing it right. He's added good player and drafted well. It will click when it clicks.

Or we could "hold Phil accountable" for our hurt feelings and 2nd guess every move, despite knowing how silly that is anyway. Tell me the GM you want why its going to be different.

Cracks me up when people like Briggs cry about the signings when the guy was pining to pay Allan Crabbe $18mm a year and the guy is total trash. Noah's value will present itself in time and Lee is a tradable player.

I think the hardest thing with Phil is that at times he appears to be so disconnected from the job he has and the team. Giving Melo a trade kicker and a ntc and then continually taking shots at him in the press is a sh@tty way to do business. I also don't like Rambis being pushed onto Hornacek and I think Rambis's presence in part has something to do with the dysfunction that is going on with the team now.
The only reason that I am not all in for Phil just leaving is that the next in command is Mills. Mills was horrible when he replaced Grunwald and he was over MSG when Isiah was ruining the Knicks.
One other thing, guys in the business talk about how little Phil puts into the job compared to other guys in the same position. Phil has the name to keep Dolan away and is smart enough to listen to Gaines and his scouts but I don't think he deserves credit for much else.

Phil used to needle MJ and Kobe too. Think about it. Who else can tell those guys or Shaq that they need to improve their game (especially when they were already a winning club) and have the players respond. Sure they hated it but they responded

in our case, we've been losing for years and when melo gets called out it becomes a burn Phil moment

Melo has to deal with the media every day--drama whatever maybe BSing for Phil etc... Phil doesnt do anything with the media-so its all on Melo there and thats true.