Let not kid ourselves let's just get assets from the draft and build a team of youth. Let's try and get the next great player through the draft to pair up with KP, Willie and Kuz. This isn't a good team at all. No defense no heart. Winning back to back games requires talent and a lot of heart. This not a mood swing this isn't a rant it's just reality of the situation which is dire.

Phil shouldn't mess around rack up as many assets as possible and take it from their. Not gonna win crap with the way this team is put together.

Vmart wrote:The Knicks should do what Hawks are doing. They should try and dump Rose if possible Melo too. Everyone else but some young players like KP, Willie and Kuz. Everyone else put be put out for picks. The team isn't going anywhere why are we so obsessed with playoffs games that ultimately will end with the Knicks getting their ass handed to them.

Let not kid ourselves let's just get assets from the draft and build a team of youth. Let's try and get the next great player through the draft to pair up with KP, Willie and Kuz. This isn't a good team at all. No defense no heart. Winning back to back games requires talent and a lot of heart. This not a mood swing this isn't a rant it's just reality of the situation which is dire.

Phil shouldn't mess around rack up as many assets as possible and take it from their. Not gonna win crap with the way this team is put together.

Jim Dolan believes that if you throw some vets in with melo we should be a 50 win team. I don't see them throwing in any towels. On the contrary I bet they are buyers The wilson chandlers and ken faried s of the world are out there. Yes it will cost 1 at rd picks but this is how we operate

BRIGGS wrote:

Vmart wrote:The Knicks should do what Hawks are doing. They should try and dump Rose if possible Melo too. Everyone else but some young players like KP, Willie and Kuz. Everyone else put be put out for picks. The team isn't going anywhere why are we so obsessed with playoffs games that ultimately will end with the Knicks getting their ass handed to them.

Let not kid ourselves let's just get assets from the draft and build a team of youth. Let's try and get the next great player through the draft to pair up with KP, Willie and Kuz. This isn't a good team at all. No defense no heart. Winning back to back games requires talent and a lot of heart. This not a mood swing this isn't a rant it's just reality of the situation which is dire.

Phil shouldn't mess around rack up as many assets as possible and take it from their. Not gonna win crap with the way this team is put together.

Jim Dolan believes that if you throw some vets in with melo we should be a 50 win team. I don't see them throwing in any towels. On the contrary I bet they are buyers The wilson chandlers and ken faried s of the world are out there. Yes it will cost 1 at rd picks but this is how we operate

Dolan has been hands off since Phil got here. And Phil's early moves were to rid the team of dead or negative weight. The players who were incoming all exhibited winning pedigree or intelligent basketball smarts. Its hard to tell what the team might do in the coming month or so but my impression is that the Knicks will not make major changes.

One reason *IS* the fact that making the playoffs is a big deal. It will give the players in for the long haul playoff experience and a taste for the post-season. Its unclear to me why anyone would object to the Knicks making the strongest run they could in this regard.

If Phil can trade for a game-changing athlete then why shouldn't he? That won't be a Wilson Chandler or Kenneth Faried.

Phil Jackson knows plenty about this. There's a reason he refuses to tank, especially now that he got Kristaps. You tank you wind up regretting it 9/10 times. There are exceptions where it works out great, but teams that tank multiple years in a row, have usually regreted it. You can easily draft great players without needing to tank/sell or your veteran assets. For example didn't San Antonio grab Leonard with a 15th pick? We'll likely be drafting somewhere there. Maybe 12th. We can easily get a quality player if we do a good job of scouting and choosing the right fit.

Now I want to move some players by deadline. The players that I want to move are players who will command major money in the offseason and have not shown they add enough wins to deserve. Derrick Rose is a guy I think we must move. He's just not a good fit as a starting point guard on a KP/Melo team.

I'd move Rose if I could get a 1st round draft pick back. I'd keep Jennings because he is probably a cheaper option to re-sign, and in the short term is capable to play big minutes at point. No one is touching Noah's contract without sending you back crap. I'd rather keep Noah because he's a good chemistry guy and he complements Porzingis well. Allows KP to play 4, passes the ball well, doesn't expect post ups, allowing more post ups for KP and Melo.

I'd keep players who have good contracts and do their roles well. Lance Thomas. O'Quinn. Kuz. Hernangomez. All quality contracts. Baker looks solid as well, should re-sign him for cheap if we can. Holiday as well. This coming summer draft well, get more athletic and better shooters in free agency. Courtney Lee is another good contract.

Basically, I'd deal Rose if we can get something solid back. He's not worth keeping. He's going to ask for 75$M over 3 years, at minimum, maybe more. 100$M is a real possibility. I'm not interesred in going all out for a Melo, Rose, KP, Noah team. Here's the concern though. What team could offer us a draft pick and good contracts back for Rose? Won't be easy. Best optin with him may be just to let him walk in the summer. However I would look very hard at finding a taker for Rose. If there isn't a good deal available, then I look to trade Jennings for a draft pick. Adding a draft pick would help this team considerably in getting younger and more athletic. Which is what they need.

Way I see it

Noah/O'Quinn/Hernangomez
Porzingis/Melo
Melo/Thomas/Kuz
Lee/Holiday
PG/Jennings/Baker

We're pretty much set with the team we have, even going into next season. What we have to do is get some new fresh blood at PG. We've had extremes at point. A completely unathletic nondriving PG in Calderon with solid intangibles. A great athlete and non stop driver with 0 leadership or true PG instincts (and no defense) in Rose. How about someone that can do a bit of both? Someone that takes pride in defense, who loves to be a leader and who isn't afraid to shoot 3 pointers playing off Melo/KP. We need that. We also could use someone at the wing or 2 who can really flat out defend. Maybe that's what you focus on. Allows the team to get better defensively.

Knixkik wrote:No point in tanking. It will hurt KP's development. We can get good young pieces without tanking. If we are still bad by the deadline maybe do a minor unload to trade a vet or two, but this fire sale stuff is no good. We can always just shut down melo with his shoulder injury, rest rose and KP here and there, and improve our draft position slightly. No one is dealing good draft picks for our vets. The small return we would get simply isn't worth hindering KPs development.

No reason to tank well lose enough on our own. On the other hand teams are already dumping players for picks so the volume of available picks will be diminishing

Shutting down players doesn't get you assets it means they are coming back to do the same crap over again. Getting assets is the key in the NBA. More assets you have the better your chance at getting quality players and possibly getting a great one.

GustavBahler wrote:I see KP doing something like this, and it only reinforces my opinion that mgmt needs to be very careful about handing out long term deals in the next year or two. A nightmare scenario as a fan IMO would be KP for years surrounded by aging, injury prone players because the Knicks tried to go for the quick fix. Phil has drafted some promising players, a promising foundation, dont want the team to be top heavy with older players, injury prone players, eating up a big chunk of the cap.

This is what I believe to be true also. I wanted to team KP up with a Bradley Beal or a young prospect establishing a young core. I think Melo is more a detriment to KPs growth. Melo has terrible tendencies on offense and defense I feel that will rub off in KP. Besides this is what happened to Ewing they never got him the necessary side kicks or another main player until years after. I don't want that to be the case for KP. As for Rise he looks like he could go down any minute with his style of play.

Phil has to be smart and do the things that are totally opposite to what the owner may want which is playoffs. That is not a growing point it's just stupid. It's only a growing point if the talent is young. Rose has been there so has Melo and Lee.

Vmart wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I see KP doing something like this, and it only reinforces my opinion that mgmt needs to be very careful about handing out long term deals in the next year or two. A nightmare scenario as a fan IMO would be KP for years surrounded by aging, injury prone players because the Knicks tried to go for the quick fix. Phil has drafted some promising players, a promising foundation, dont want the team to be top heavy with older players, injury prone players, eating up a big chunk of the cap.

This is what I believe to be true also. I wanted to team KP up with a Bradley Beal or a young prospect establishing a young core. I think Melo is more a detriment to KPs growth. Melo has terrible tendencies on offense and defense I feel that will rub off in KP. Besides this is what happened to Ewing they never got him the necessary side kicks or another main player until years after. I don't want that to be the case for KP. As for Rise he looks like he could go down any minute with his style of play.

Phil has to be smart and do the things that are totally opposite to what the owner may want which is playoffs. That is not a growing point it's just stupid. It's only a growing point if the talent is young. Rose has been there so has Melo and Lee.

Thats a great point about Ewing. I disagree about tanking at this point of the season. The rooks, second year players, are getting a surprising amount of burn right now. The way to tank would probably be to play the veterans more, lol. Its an unusual situation.

Phil and Jeff are getting an extended look at his rooks, increasing the chance that they will be even more productive next season because they're playing, not sitting. If you worry about anything it should be KP getting pissed off because the team is flushing the season over a draft pick.

Agree about Dolan, thats why its important IMO for the rooks, second year players, to show what they can do so Dolan doesn't hit the panic button.

As for Phil, I believe he was happy with the course he was on with KP and Lopez, but I think he got swept up in all the drama of the playoffs, with him on the sidelines, and jumped the gun. My guess.

He's been a mixed bag on trades, but his drafting, acquiring overseas talent has been mostly top notch. What this team really needs IMO is a new GM who can be more sounding board than rubber stamp. Cant say Mills has done a bad job, but a better GM might get us more complementary players for KP via trade, free agency, and give Phil hopefully one of the better second opinions out there.

callmened wrote:normally i would agree but theyve invested way too much in this melo, noah, rose core. it would be like admitting defeat - which theyll never do.

my goal with this squad is sneak into the playoffs with this flawed team. get kp playoff experience. rinse and repeat the next 2 yrs with rose and melo. once their contracts run out build around kp

This is exactly right. We can work with what we have, and build alongside KP at the same time. We will have a great opportunity to reset with some good young players before KP even hits his prime, if this is done correctly.

yellowboy90 wrote:I see the knicks winning there next 3 games and with 2 days of rest they may beat the Raptors too. The fire sale will have to wait.