Noah keeps Centers away from KP, and that's important. KP can't defend post match ups great. He's definitely showing more promise as a 4 man this year than last (when he looked better at 5 match up wise). Noah plays hard. Real hard. He's been slowly figuring out ways not to be a liability on offense. He's cutting really well. This is beyond this game. It's about the last month or so. I tend to see Noah as a good complement to KP and even Melo.

Rose while a great driver, I've began to cringe at much of his stuff. He's predictable. He's got bad energy out there. He just seems like a lousy teammate. He's the team's point guard and you're supposed to bring leadership. I know Jose sucked but Jose was a very good teammate and leader. We responded to that. Rose just seems to care only about Rose.

It may change again and Noah may begin to stink again. However right now I'd say if he had to choose, I'd be happy to see Noah back next year while KP keeps developing and I'd want Rose sold to the highest bidder before deadline. I simply have come to detest Rose's body languahe and demeanor.

Do others see this?

nyknickzingis wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Its funny because the guy I am tiring of is Jennings. Rose since coming back has at times tried to score too much but some of that is because guys have been out or nothing else is working. Jennings warts have been showing. He really thrives as a back up but recently has not looked as good. It is a long season. Both guys are on a one year deal. I think of the two Rose is the keeper

My concern with Rose are follows

1) He's got bad intangibles as a point guard. All point guards on ring teams or contenders have great intangibles.
2) He's got no jumpshot or 3 ball. Too easy to hurt us in a playoff setting when teams can design specific defenses for that.
3) He's a great driver but has tunnel vision. Refuses to look and even see the open man.
4) If we do keep him, he's going to ask for superstar money and why should we pay a guy 20+ million a year to give us 15/5 on a .500 tea, when he doesn't even complement Porzingis all that well.

I think he compliments porzingis more than most realize. He breaks down defenses and takes a ton of pressure off of porzingis. He's not a pass first player but his ability to make plays opens things up. It has a domino effect. It's more valuable than just having a facilitator that might think pass first but can't really create plays at will.

nyknickzingis wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:4) If we do keep him, he's going to ask for superstar money and why should we pay a guy 20+ million a year to give us 15/5 on a .500 tea, when he doesn't even complement Porzingis all that well.

Hes averaging 17.5pts 4.5 assists but those stats are skewed because he has had a few games ge left after 10 minutes i think second half of the season he will be around 19-20pts 6 assista which is worth paying for.

Think of it this way. We have a better Porzingis this year. Melo's still an all-star level player (whether he makes it or not). Yet adding Rose, who is this very good individual player, has not led the Knicks to any better record than a year ago when Jose was our point guard. I am not putting it all on Rose, but some of it is. He does not shoot well. He does not pass much. He often misses wide open teammates as he has tunnel vision when he drives. He does not defend, The biggest thing is as the point guard he should be the leader of the team and he rarely shows any of that. Think of Jason Kidd's time as a Knick. The guy was way past his prime and we saw leadership and impact from him. That's just not there with Rose, in his athletic prime. His game does not lead to wins, and that is why I think Chicago sold him off so cheap. He's in his prime, and playing very well individually. Yet he was sold for pretty cheap. I think we're seeing why.

I'd like us to get someone better, of a higher level, who can play the game Baker did last night in the 4th. High IQ. Good passing. Tough physical defense. Able to shoot from outside. Push the ball up the floor. I know Baker is not a NBA level starter. So look for one who is, who brings those qualities. That's what we need more than Rose's game. Come to think of it, I wish we had gotten someone like Dellavedova this past summer.

sidneydeane wrote:Lol at noah being tradable....what exactly do you think we could get for rose? Anyway i agree with rose complimenting KP, he's actually perfect for him we just dont see enough high PnR. Past first pg's are all good, then again think of the elite teams-cavs, dubbs, celtics, raps, spurs, rockets, thunder, all except spurs are shoot first pg's. Better to have a player that creates and breaks down the defense they are what every elite team needs

Bonn1997 wrote:

Welpee wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Its funny because the guy I am tiring of is Jennings. Rose since coming back has at times tried to score too much but some of that is because guys have been out or nothing else is working. Jennings warts have been showing. He really thrives as a back up but recently has not looked as good. It is a long season. Both guys are on a one year deal. I think of the two Rose is the keeper

My concern with Rose are follows

1) He's got bad intangibles as a point guard. All point guards on ring teams or contenders have great intangibles.
2) He's got no jumpshot or 3 ball. Too easy to hurt us in a playoff setting when teams can design specific defenses for that.
3) He's a great driver but has tunnel vision. Refuses to look and even see the open man.
4) If we do keep him, he's going to ask for superstar money and why should we pay a guy 20+ million a year to give us 15/5 on a .500 tea, when he doesn't even complement Porzingis all that well.

1) Like Rondo (Celtics '08) or Jason Williams (Heat '06)?
2) I've seen evidence that he can hit enough jumpers to keep the defense honest, but no he's not Steph Curry on the perimeter. But if your desire is to find a perfect, complete PG good luck with that unless you want to roll the dice on an aging/injury prone Chris Paul or if you think Jrue Holiday is an upgrade.
3) I totally disagree with this. How many point blank layups has Noah blown this season. Prior to the season I heard a pundit say the scouting report last season was to not contest Noah on layups because he misses a high percentage of them. I thought this sounded like BS until watching him every game this season. So I can understand Rose taking his chances on himself versus feeding Noah. Now this tunnel vision regarding everyone else I don't know about that. I don't recall seeing him ignore many open players when driving to the hoop.
4) That remains to be seen. He can ask for whatever he wants, the market will dictate his salary and there aren't many desirable teams in need of a PG.

#3 - Noah is shooting 54% on shoots at the rim (Rose is at 55%).

Knixkik wrote:

nyknickzingis wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Its funny because the guy I am tiring of is Jennings. Rose since coming back has at times tried to score too much but some of that is because guys have been out or nothing else is working. Jennings warts have been showing. He really thrives as a back up but recently has not looked as good. It is a long season. Both guys are on a one year deal. I think of the two Rose is the keeper

My concern with Rose are follows

1) He's got bad intangibles as a point guard. All point guards on ring teams or contenders have great intangibles.
2) He's got no jumpshot or 3 ball. Too easy to hurt us in a playoff setting when teams can design specific defenses for that.
3) He's a great driver but has tunnel vision. Refuses to look and even see the open man.
4) If we do keep him, he's going to ask for superstar money and why should we pay a guy 20+ million a year to give us 15/5 on a .500 tea, when he doesn't even complement Porzingis all that well.

I think he compliments porzingis more than most realize. He breaks down defenses and takes a ton of pressure off of porzingis. He's not a pass first player but his ability to make plays opens things up. It has a domino effect. It's more valuable than just having a facilitator that might think pass first but can't really create plays at will.

Rose has already shown he has the ability to pass first, set up players, and do everything a solid pg can do..

If he would stop avoiding contact, it would change a whole lot of things. His ppg would go up, teams would be in foul trouble early, getting other bigs in foul trouble,Less fast breaks off his misses.

he just doesn't understand the impact he would have. He's so fast he's a blur to defenders and the ref

We've seen progress from Kuz and Holiday. Baker looked great. Willy still needs work but you can see the talent. Jeff has a LOT of work to do with so many players. It's gonna take time but I'm starting to believe more and more in Jeff's abilities.