Knixkik wrote:

crzymdups wrote:... with a far inferior roster.

We were 16-19 and trending upward, now we're 16-19 and trending downward...

Still think Derek Fisher was let go too quickly. The defense was much better under him. Melo was moving the ball quite willingly, too.

This isn't against Hornacek, I like him. Except the defense. But he's not running anything remotely Triangle. I just continue to be mystified by Phil's decision to fire Fisher. I think Fisher was doing a fine job and never really had a decent roster to work with.

I do think continuing to change the coach has been bad for continuity. Again, I do like Hornacek... but I still think it was a terrible move for team building to fire Fisher the way he was fired.

He wasn't a terrible coach, it was a culture thing. The Matt Barnes situation did him in. Phil's job has been to build a winning culture here, and the Fisher situation was the opposite of that. That killed his coaching career, at least for now.

Yeah, the Barnes thing was not good. It's too bad, because on the court I thought he was pretty good. The defense was actually solid under him. Our defense is just terrible now.

Chandler wrote:

crzymdups wrote:... with a far inferior roster.

We were 16-19 and trending upward, now we're 16-19 and trending downward...

Still think Derek Fisher was let go too quickly. The defense was much better under him. Melo was moving the ball quite willingly, too.

This isn't against Hornacek, I like him. Except the defense. But he's not running anything remotely Triangle. I just continue to be mystified by Phil's decision to fire Fisher. I think Fisher was doing a fine job and never really had a decent roster to work with.

I do think continuing to change the coach has been bad for continuity. Again, I do like Hornacek... but I still think it was a terrible move for team building to fire Fisher the way he was fired.

man you're depressing me.

Fisher wasn't bad, but it was right to let him go.

I am hoping that we put in a bottom to this losing streak and can turn it around with another 10 out of 15 type streak. We need consistency and a killer instinct

It's just this franchise, constantly spinning its wheels in the mud, switching things over and over and over again. The only constant is mediocrity.

You want some real depressing news - you know what our record was at this point in the 2009-10 season - the season BEFORE we got all that cap room to add Felton and Amar'e? We were 15-20, 1 game worse, with a few young talented players.

Chandler wrote:put my name under the column "sucker for punishment" then. I'm still rooting for a turnaround. This year IMO feels different. Last year I spent a lot of time screaming at Fisher's rotations and other mistakes, and the piss-poor guard play

this year I think we have a lot going well but we need to tighten up on consistency and focus on both ends of the floor. It feels different to me

Also i think Phil is building a roster. KP, Kuz (on the cheap), Willy (on the cheap), Holiday (assuming he saw the talent there). If they can continue with that we'll be good.

Yeah, building with the young guys is more exciting to me than the overpriced veterans who almost always disappoint.

I still think this year's team can turn it around to make the playoffs. But the defense is too terrible to get out of the first round, unless there are drastic improvements there.

As long as we don't trade our 1st round picks and continue to add young talent organically, I'm fine.

nixluva wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Big difference is we have our pick, so we can either get better and make the playoffs (good!) or spiral downwards and get a high pick (also good) - I'm fine with eithet

THIS! This is totally different IMO since we have picks. There is no panic about this year. We've got some young players being developed. We're not stuck with Rose or BJ if we decide we need to go in another direction. Just let this season play out and we'll know what to do.

These are both helpful reminders that the bigger picture doesn't suck, even if our current defense does

Nalod wrote:we have our picks, we basically have an option on Rose, not Jose, and Willy is better than we expected.
Im looking at the process and we are in a better situation. But witout the benefit of hindsight, and after all, we are the knicks, its easy to fall into the dreadful feeling of despair.

Devil's advocate, last year people were saying Langston Galloway was a promising young guard who was part of the future.

nixluva wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Big difference is we have our pick, so we can either get better and make the playoffs (good!) or spiral downwards and get a high pick (also good) - I'm fine with eithet

THIS! This is totally different IMO since we have picks. There is no panic about this year. We've got some young players being developed. We're not stuck with Rose or BJ if we decide we need to go in another direction. Just let this season play out and we'll know what to do.

Jmpasq wrote:Being stuck with Noah and Lee at 30 million is pretty bad man

nixluva wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Big difference is we have our pick, so we can either get better and make the playoffs (good!) or spiral downwards and get a high pick (also good) - I'm fine with eithet

THIS! This is totally different IMO since we have picks. There is no panic about this year. We've got some young players being developed. We're not stuck with Rose or BJ if we decide we need to go in another direction. Just let this season play out and we'll know what to do.

How is Lee a problem? You need good character vets as well as young players when rebuilding anyways

KP has been better than last year.
Lee is an upgrade over Afflalo.
Our bench scoring is about the same if not better.

It comes down to defending and this team doesn't defend and plays too much 1 on 1 at times. Right now Jennings and Rose and Noah have not added the wins over Calderon, Gallo, Lopez.

We are better on offense there is no doubt about it. Much worse on defense. Part of it is that the Knicks just dont have the athleticism to play Hornacheks offensive plan. They play at a high pace and take more shots than almost any team but that means you got to run back and play a lot of defence at a fast break. When our defense isn't set we just don't have speed or athleticism to recover.

Fisher knew his rosters limitations better. Hornacheks system and coaching style as well as leadership all better than Fisher. However Horny is using a style I just can't see this team keep up in. We need to ask ourselves are Noah, Melo, Lee, Rose really capable to play in a high pace game or are they better off when the game slows down. I personally believe while on offense this team does better, defensively they would be much better positioned if they played slower halfcourt physical game.

Now I tend to look at us differently. I look at things based first on KPs development. Horny encourages the 3 ball and calls for KP to get the ball. Horny thinks KP can be one of the best players in the league. I like how KP looks in this style of game very well. From that perspective even though the season may end up a failure wins losses wise KP is a better player because of being in this kind of style and coaching and long term we will be rewarded for that. Also so what if we end up with 35 wins? At some point I even want us thinking of selling Rose and Jennings for future picks. If we aren't in the playoffs picture by Feb, I sell vets for picks or young assets and look to gain higher drafting position.

Get more athletic, better shooters, draft well in the lottery and transition to KPs team. I like Hornachek for another season. Phil too. We have some good pieces with that plus Willy, Kuz, Holiday and OQuinn.