Chandler wrote:I think it's more willful ignorance than cover up. I think the Heat have essentially institutionalized the use

Lebron wade whiteside big suspects. Howard for sure.

Chandler wrote:Hgh is my guess. Jaw growth etx. Lots of indicators. W lebron and wade. Jordan was probably on roids. Karl Malone too.

I also suspect tons are using steroids in a fairly responsible way to facilitate recovery not so much to mimic Dennis Rodman

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:Hgh is my guess. Jaw growth etx. Lots of indicators. W lebron and wade. Jordan was probably on roids. Karl Malone too.

I also suspect tons are using steroids in a fairly responsible way to facilitate recovery not so much to mimic Dennis Rodman

agree.. these guys play a 100 NBA games and people act shocked that they juice. Also in the news... sometimes rock stars do drugs.

So if others do it the right way and others do steroids to enhance performance is that fair? There are long term repercussions. You guys know LeBron was on the list A-Rod was on. A-Rod gets blacklisted. LJ gets to be the toast of town. Doesn't seem fair is playing a different sport that much of difference. I think there is a deeper meaning behind why NBA players get off so easily it might have to do with one sport looked at as a means to escape poverty and other being a sport of the well to do or well off. My feeling is that it might even have racial implications.

Not sure where you are going with this...ARod, last I checked is Dominican (Minority) who was born in Spanish Harlem I believe. Hardly the place where people are born with privileges or so-called silver spoons in their mouths. Same with Palmero, Sosa, all ,I'm sure were born in poverty or close to it. Football players, Hockey, Tennis have all had players suspended over the last yrs for PED use and its not made out to be a big deal as it is in baseball.

Over the last 10 yrs, here are some baseball players who were suspended for Steroid use: Jason Grimsley, Juan Rincon, Jose Guillen, Carlos Ruiz, Nelson Cruz, etc....Has the average fan ever heard of any of those players? No! Has the media made a big deal about these suspensions? No! ARod is a big deal as is Bonds, McGwire and Sosa because they threaten what the baseball gods hold sacred. They threaten to smash the homerun and RBIs records. Records of Ruth and Williams, etc.

Now the "drug" issue is performance enhancing (not just roids and hgh but things like adderall (sp?) to have an amphetamine kick and better focus). I have very mixed feelings on the subject. No one blinks when the steroid is cortisone (and yes it is a steroid just not anabolic) so the player can recover and get on the field sooner than he would naturally (and yes there are real risks with cortisone especially if someone has received multiple injections in the same area.) I kind of feel ok with "mild" steriod use, the kind where people are using it to recover more quickly from wear and tear (think about those scrawny relief pitchers) but feel differently when players are using it to transform their game. I don't have a good explanation about why the latter bothers me other than the comment above about how that somehow feels unfair

the irony is the dangers and risks of steroids are greatly overblown. Players are literally many million times more likely to die from a DUI (alcohol or weed) than from roids. You can probably count roid deaths on one hand and have a few fingers left to spare. Extreme abuse (i.e., the world of competitive body-building) can certainly have ill effects on internal organs for various reasons, and for the record one of the newer forms of PEDs is insulin -- perhaps the most anabolic substance (is there a doctor in the house??)

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:Hgh is my guess. Jaw growth etx. Lots of indicators. W lebron and wade. Jordan was probably on roids. Karl Malone too.

I also suspect tons are using steroids in a fairly responsible way to facilitate recovery not so much to mimic Dennis Rodman

agree.. these guys play a 100 NBA games and people act shocked that they juice. Also in the news... sometimes rock stars do drugs.

So if others do it the right way and others do steroids to enhance performance is that fair? There are long term repercussions. You guys know LeBron was on the list A-Rod was on. A-Rod gets blacklisted. LJ gets to be the toast of town. Doesn't seem fair is playing a different sport that much of difference. I think there is a deeper meaning behind why NBA players get off so easily it might have to do with one sport looked at as a means to escape poverty and other being a sport of the well to do or well off. My feeling is that it might even have racial implications.

Life isnt fair. Is it fair that your coworker earned a bigger bonus because he's willing to work crazy hours fueled by PED's like cocaine? Maybe its just as unfair to play vs. the guys who DONT need them. Its simply not a black and white issue. Why are fans so concerned about what is fair? Is it fair Rose or Grant Hill got hurt? Is it fair to tell them not to take HGH or whatever ****tail gets them on the court that strengthens their body? Waters too murky for me to cast judgement, especially when I just dont have the whole story. Just my 2c

Then why did baseball make such a big deal about it obviously they did it for a reason. I enjoyed the long ball era of baseball. The problem is you know it comes with health issues which we can't allow to fester where athletes use this means to achieve greatness.

Do you realize that NBA has suspended maybe 8 players since 2000 for PEDs and Derrick Rose is on record as saying on a scale of 1-10 that the steroid problem in the NBA is a 7. So now if it is an issue why is the NBA so behind on this. Is an NBA players health not something for anyone to worry about.

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:Hgh is my guess. Jaw growth etx. Lots of indicators. W lebron and wade. Jordan was probably on roids. Karl Malone too.

I also suspect tons are using steroids in a fairly responsible way to facilitate recovery not so much to mimic Dennis Rodman

agree.. these guys play a 100 NBA games and people act shocked that they juice. Also in the news... sometimes rock stars do drugs.

So if others do it the right way and others do steroids to enhance performance is that fair? There are long term repercussions. You guys know LeBron was on the list A-Rod was on. A-Rod gets blacklisted. LJ gets to be the toast of town. Doesn't seem fair is playing a different sport that much of difference. I think there is a deeper meaning behind why NBA players get off so easily it might have to do with one sport looked at as a means to escape poverty and other being a sport of the well to do or well off. My feeling is that it might even have racial implications.

Life isnt fair. Is it fair that your coworker earned a bigger bonus because he's willing to work crazy hours fueled by PED's like cocaine? Maybe its just as unfair to play vs. the guys who DONT need them. Its simply not a black and white issue. Why are fans so concerned about what is fair? Is it fair Rose or Grant Hill got hurt? Is it fair to tell them not to take HGH or whatever ****tail gets them on the court that strengthens their body? Waters too murky for me to cast judgement, especially when I just dont have the whole story. Just my 2c

Then why did baseball make such a big deal about it obviously they did it for a reason. I enjoyed the long ball era of baseball. The problem is you know it comes with health issues which we can't allow to fester where athletes use this means to achieve greatness.

Do you realize that NBA has suspended maybe 8 players since 2000 for PEDs and Derrick Rose is on record as saying on a scale of 1-10 that the steroid problem in the NBA is a 7. So now if it is an issue why is the NBA so behind on this. Is an NBA players health not something for anyone to worry about.

first you started with cheating. Now its concern for player's health. Whats your beef with roids? Honest question...
NBA image is important, so they have to be or at least appear reactive to things that come out. To me its really the choice of the player.

Mike. ..I dont know u personally, but i usually agree with u 90% of the time. Including now. I believe this steroid thing is the agents and players that don't get the same recognition or contract. And when a fan brings it up, it's very confusing to understand their motivation....like why create this thread.

The only issue I see is kids thinking steroids is the norm.. .the way u handle that is through comercials.....like the famous one "This is drugs....this is your brain on drugs....any questions?"

Otherwise I believe there's a hint of jealousy that no one would admit too. It's their body and it doesn't affect the sport as a fan.....MOVE ON.

I agree 100%... educate that the drugs are bad. After that its your life.

I could throw Wade under the bus as well with his physical build. How does he maintain that thickness playing over 82 games every year?

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Chandler wrote:Hgh is my guess. Jaw growth etx. Lots of indicators. W lebron and wade. Jordan was probably on roids. Karl Malone too.

I also suspect tons are using steroids in a fairly responsible way to facilitate recovery not so much to mimic Dennis Rodman

agree.. these guys play a 100 NBA games and people act shocked that they juice. Also in the news... sometimes rock stars do drugs.

So if others do it the right way and others do steroids to enhance performance is that fair? There are long term repercussions. You guys know LeBron was on the list A-Rod was on. A-Rod gets blacklisted. LJ gets to be the toast of town. Doesn't seem fair is playing a different sport that much of difference. I think there is a deeper meaning behind why NBA players get off so easily it might have to do with one sport looked at as a means to escape poverty and other being a sport of the well to do or well off. My feeling is that it might even have racial implications.

Life isnt fair. Is it fair that your coworker earned a bigger bonus because he's willing to work crazy hours fueled by PED's like cocaine? Maybe its just as unfair to play vs. the guys who DONT need them. Its simply not a black and white issue. Why are fans so concerned about what is fair? Is it fair Rose or Grant Hill got hurt? Is it fair to tell them not to take HGH or whatever ****tail gets them on the court that strengthens their body? Waters too murky for me to cast judgement, especially when I just dont have the whole story. Just my 2c

Then why did baseball make such a big deal about it obviously they did it for a reason. I enjoyed the long ball era of baseball. The problem is you know it comes with health issues which we can't allow to fester where athletes use this means to achieve greatness.

Do you realize that NBA has suspended maybe 8 players since 2000 for PEDs and Derrick Rose is on record as saying on a scale of 1-10 that the steroid problem in the NBA is a 7. So now if it is an issue why is the NBA so behind on this. Is an NBA players health not something for anyone to worry about.

first you started with cheating. Now its concern for player's health. Whats your beef with roids? Honest question...
NBA image is important, so they have to be or at least appear reactive to things that come out. To me its really the choice of the player.

Mike. ..I dont know u personally, but i usually agree with u 90% of the time. Including now. I believe this steroid thing is the agents and players that don't get the same recognition or contract. And when a fan brings it up, it's very confusing to understand their motivation....like why create this thread.

The only issue I see is kids thinking steroids is the norm.. .the way u handle that is through comercials.....like the famous one "This is drugs....this is your brain on drugs....any questions?"

Otherwise I believe there's a hint of jealousy that no one would admit too. It's their body and it doesn't affect the sport as a fan.....MOVE ON.

thats it. I admit to balking at the moral gripes when you consider what is at stake. I pitched hardball for several years. All amateur stuff. Weekends, tourneys, etc... you know the drill. My god, if I was a AAA pitcher making $60k a year, and I was close to getting to the show and earning the league minimum $480k would I consider roids or HGH to get me there? DUH! Guys behind internet keyboards can cry cheater really easy. Another take is a 20 something ball player who could set his family up for life if he makes it just for a few years!
That being said I would never do it to win amateur games. Why put myself at risk for that? However when you consider the life changing impact that making an NCAA team can have, or the NBA, or something that greatly advances your career and visibility all bets are off. There are just too many factors and too much at stake to make broad sweeping statements.

I agree 100%... educate that the drugs are bad. After that its your life.

I'm not sure I agree. There's a lot of appeal in what you say, e.g., "it's your life," the incentive to use, etc. But there is also a dangerous slippery slope. The HS football player who is trying to get a scholarship? or perhaps a scholarship player but wanting the scholarship from an elite school? Why wouldn't they juice under the same logic. Also as it gets widespread, they no longer provide a competitive edge (at least not against the others also using the stuff). Once it's more common, you then need to use more of it or in more exotic forms to get that edge.

It's a tremendously complicated issue in my book

I guess I am trying to be humble, because I have been lucky enough in life to not have to go that route. Not everyone had or has the opportunities I have had to improve my life, further my education or simply get ahead. I work hard for what I have but it would be incredibly arrogant to assume other's should simply mimic my hard work and accept how things turn out.

fishmike wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I think Lebron is on steroids... he's a freak and never gets hurt. He got hurt when he "lost all that weight" his first year back with Cleveland. He was clearly weaker and less explosive, complaining about fatigue etc. He sat out a month or so and came back bigger and also back to his normal freakish self. He's also been going bald since junior year in high school.

I could throw Wade under the bus as well with his physical build. How does he maintain that thickness playing over 82 games every year?

NBA has a McGuire/Sosa problem. Those guys were cash cows for the sport. Lebron is the face of the NBA. Not exactly clear what the "right" thing is. NBA is a biz

Why is the NBA so adamant say stuff like we have the best drug testing and bragging about it. When reality their drug test is essentially turn a blind eye to the truth.