knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:it's not too late to right the ship. the solution is simple-- if rose's numbers don't change he needs to be benched for jennings or even baker. THIS IS THE CORE ISSUE WITH THE TEAM. rose has to get kp6 the ball, he has to play with and for others.

so basically we need to change the way we play to make rose more effective right?

The best way to get kp involve is PnR, but that's an absolute no no. Remember in the first preseason game when rose was running PnR with kp, and kp was drilling wide open 3's (even though we still loss by 30) we haven't that play since..

KP has been open enough times without Rose passing to him for it to be an issue. Rose sure isn't making a case for a big contract if he cant or wont get the possible future franchise player the ball.

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:it's not too late to right the ship. the solution is simple-- if rose's numbers don't change he needs to be benched for jennings or even baker. THIS IS THE CORE ISSUE WITH THE TEAM. rose has to get kp6 the ball, he has to play with and for others.

so basically we need to change the way we play to make rose more effective right?

The best way to get kp involve is PnR, but that's an absolute no no. Remember in the first preseason game when rose was running PnR with kp, and kp was drilling wide open 3's (even though we still loss by 30) we haven't that play since..

i don't see much triangle being played to begin with-- if i had to guess it's like 15% of all possessions. so i don't understand why this is the issue. how often have you seen it run.

If it werent there at all, Im guessing we would see more PnR.

GustavBahler wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:it's not too late to right the ship. the solution is simple-- if rose's numbers don't change he needs to be benched for jennings or even baker. THIS IS THE CORE ISSUE WITH THE TEAM. rose has to get kp6 the ball, he has to play with and for others.

so basically we need to change the way we play to make rose more effective right?

The best way to get kp involve is PnR, but that's an absolute no no. Remember in the first preseason game when rose was running PnR with kp, and kp was drilling wide open 3's (even though we still loss by 30) we haven't that play since..

KP has been open enough times without Rose passing to him for it to be an issue. Rose sure isn't making a case for a big contract if he cant or wont get the possible future franchise player the ball.

See I'm the other way with him--what if he starts assuming a bigger part in the offense, starts droppin' 25-30 a night and we start winning? He'd certainly make a case for a future here with me if that happened.

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:it's not too late to right the ship. the solution is simple-- if rose's numbers don't change he needs to be benched for jennings or even baker. THIS IS THE CORE ISSUE WITH THE TEAM. rose has to get kp6 the ball, he has to play with and for others.

so basically we need to change the way we play to make rose more effective right?

The best way to get kp involve is PnR, but that's an absolute no no. Remember in the first preseason game when rose was running PnR with kp, and kp was drilling wide open 3's (even though we still loss by 30) we haven't that play since..

i don't see much triangle being played to begin with-- if i had to guess it's like 15% of all possessions. so i don't understand why this is the issue. how often have you seen it run.

If it werent there at all, Im guessing we would see more PnR.

depends 1. how often rose is pushing the ball and trying to finish, 2. how often he pushes the ball and kicks-- often leaving his feet, and 3. how often melo is going iso. all those types of plays will eat into triangle use, pck an roll, essentially torpedoing the offense. since you can't bench melo, then it has to be rose. they are horrible out there together.

But even when rose and melo are on the bench and kp is still out there( which has happen more often than not), no ones really looking for KP, not jennings, not lance, not KOQ, not Holiday, there all looking for there own shots.

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:it's not too late to right the ship. the solution is simple-- if rose's numbers don't change he needs to be benched for jennings or even baker. THIS IS THE CORE ISSUE WITH THE TEAM. rose has to get kp6 the ball, he has to play with and for others.

so basically we need to change the way we play to make rose more effective right?

The best way to get kp involve is PnR, but that's an absolute no no. Remember in the first preseason game when rose was running PnR with kp, and kp was drilling wide open 3's (even though we still loss by 30) we haven't that play since..

i don't see much triangle being played to begin with-- if i had to guess it's like 15% of all possessions. so i don't understand why this is the issue. how often have you seen it run.

If it werent there at all, Im guessing we would see more PnR.

depends 1. how often rose is pushing the ball and trying to finish, 2. how often he pushes the ball and kicks-- often leaving his feet, and 3. how often melo is going iso. all those types of plays will eat into triangle use, pck an roll, essentially torpedoing the offense. since you can't bench melo, then it has to be rose. they are horrible out there together.

But even when rose and melo are on the bench and kp is still out there( which has happen more often than not), no ones really looking for KP, not jennings, not lance, not KOQ, not Holiday, there all looking for there own shots.

if that is truly the case then we should see a different game tonight. hornacek has had 24hrs to relay that message. but like i said, the problem starts with rose and melo and infects the rest of the team.

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

dk7th wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:it's not too late to right the ship. the solution is simple-- if rose's numbers don't change he needs to be benched for jennings or even baker. THIS IS THE CORE ISSUE WITH THE TEAM. rose has to get kp6 the ball, he has to play with and for others.

so basically we need to change the way we play to make rose more effective right?

The best way to get kp involve is PnR, but that's an absolute no no. Remember in the first preseason game when rose was running PnR with kp, and kp was drilling wide open 3's (even though we still loss by 30) we haven't that play since..

i don't see much triangle being played to begin with-- if i had to guess it's like 15% of all possessions. so i don't understand why this is the issue. how often have you seen it run.

If it werent there at all, Im guessing we would see more PnR.

depends 1. how often rose is pushing the ball and trying to finish, 2. how often he pushes the ball and kicks-- often leaving his feet, and 3. how often melo is going iso. all those types of plays will eat into triangle use, pck an roll, essentially torpedoing the offense. since you can't bench melo, then it has to be rose. they are horrible out there together.

But even when rose and melo are on the bench and kp is still out there( which has happen more often than not), no ones really looking for KP, not jennings, not lance, not KOQ, not Holiday, there all looking for there own shots.

if that is truly the case then we should see a different game tonight. hornacek has had 24hrs to relay that message. but like i said, the problem starts with rose and melo and infects the rest of the team.

He's been saying it often, but lets stop making excuse for KP, his defense has been the worse on the team, he is not playing aggressive, and his rebounding is nothing short of brutal for a guy 7 3" and athletic.

Forget about rose and melo getting him the ball, we need him more on the defensive end. we need noah to be some kind of a threat offensively..

when rose and melo sit, we look worse than a d league squad, and that's been documented already

just curious, not rhetorical-- has the bench come in with a lead which it has squandered or has it come in with a deficit to make up?

arkrud wrote:Some people here believe in miracles.
How one can expect player who just trying to find his game after not playing for so long because of severe health issues to also change his game dramatically? Are you kidding or what?
Rose is what he is - a scoring combo guard who relies on athletic power moves and penetrations to score.
He never was a facilitator.
He was also bad defender and he will not miraculously became a good or even adequate one.
He is one year rental. We should build him up to get something from him at the deadline when it will absolutely clear that we should not have him moving forward.
I would do same with Melo if he will finally get his act together and understand what is more important for his brand - winning or some fake NY homerism.

fishmike wrote:

arkrud wrote:Some people here believe in miracles.
How one can expect player who just trying to find his game after not playing for so long because of severe health issues to also change his game dramatically? Are you kidding or what?
Rose is what he is - a scoring combo guard who relies on athletic power moves and penetrations to score.
He never was a facilitator.
He was also bad defender and he will not miraculously became a good or even adequate one.
He is one year rental. We should build him up to get something from him at the deadline when it will absolutely clear that we should not have him moving forward.
I would do same with Melo if he will finally get his act together and understand what is more important for his brand - winning or some fake NY homerism.

I would be more inclined to keep Rose and move Melo. Rose has a very valuable skill set. You cant live without guards who can get to the rim and he's one of the best. At this point Melo is playing like a ball stopping jumper shooter so if we struggle he's the one I would look to move (if he's willing and the record is bad). If healthy Rose has more value IMO

Not in facilitator role...
Its cool he can break defenses... but he cannot pass the ball, has no bbal IQ, and has terrible habits to pass the ball jumping in the air.
He is also very inefficient jump shooter.
Not sure what is his value for THIS team.