nixluva wrote:THANK YOU CRUSHALOT!!! That is a masterpiece of breaking down exactly what the real deal is with Melo and this team. Phil has put a team together that has a real legit chance to be a top team in this league. Each player will help the other to see much easier and more open looks.

Hornacek will also be able to spread the love with his rotations. We shouldn't have to play any part of the game without at least one of our top 6 players on the floor. People should not underestimate the impact that will have.

nixluva wrote:THANK YOU CRUSHALOT!!! That is a masterpiece of breaking down exactly what the real deal is with Melo and this team. Phil has put a team together that has a real legit chance to be a top team in this league. Each player will help the other to see much easier and more open looks.

Hornacek will also be able to spread the love with his rotations. We shouldn't have to play any part of the game without at least one of our top 6 players on the floor. People should not underestimate the impact that will have.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:THANK YOU CRUSHALOT!!! That is a masterpiece of breaking down exactly what the real deal is with Melo and this team. Phil has put a team together that has a real legit chance to be a top team in this league. Each player will help the other to see much easier and more open looks.

Hornacek will also be able to spread the love with his rotations. We shouldn't have to play any part of the game without at least one of our top 6 players on the floor. People should not underestimate the impact that will have.

It is a great video. I hope Rose will want to share the ball (and stays healthy). It's amazing Phil, Dolan, Mills, etc. have not surrounded Melo with even one adequate play-maker.

If you count Noah then that would make one but I know you mean guard. Jennings seemed like he was making strides of becoming an adequate play-maker but then he got hurt. I expect PGs to avg at least 8 ast per 36. On this team the two guards are not going to help so it will be up to the PGs, Noah, and KP to make plays for Melo. I think having Noah IQ will really help Melo especially when he post up because he needs a big that knows when to flash high to create a better passing angle instead of having Melo tussle around on the block and eat up seconds while the guard trying an entry pass struggles to find an passing window he is comfortable with. If Noah can keep up his +5 ast per 36 avg while playing 70+ games it will go along way to helping out the short comings of Rose as a play-maker.

In a perfect world Rose would change his game and becomes a real distributor. I want to see 10 ast this year. If he was a better scorer then I wouldn't think he would need that many but he has never scored efficiently enough to warrant the shots he takes which decreases his ast opps. He is playing with an older and slightly different Melo but it would be nice if Rose could have a revival like Iverson did when playing with Melo in Denver. Iverson was the older vet then so maybe shaving nearly 8% off his usg% came easier I don't know.

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:THANK YOU CRUSHALOT!!! That is a masterpiece of breaking down exactly what the real deal is with Melo and this team. Phil has put a team together that has a real legit chance to be a top team in this league. Each player will help the other to see much easier and more open looks.

Hornacek will also be able to spread the love with his rotations. We shouldn't have to play any part of the game without at least one of our top 6 players on the floor. People should not underestimate the impact that will have.

It is a great video. I hope Rose will want to share the ball (and stays healthy). It's amazing Phil, Dolan, Mills, etc. have not surrounded Melo with even one adequate play-maker.

If you count Noah then that would make one but I know you mean guard. Jennings seemed like he was making strides of becoming an adequate play-maker but then he got hurt. I expect PGs to avg at least 8 ast per 36. On this team the two guards are not going to help so it will be up to the PGs, Noah, and KP to make plays for Melo. I think having Noah IQ will really help Melo especially when he post up because he needs a big that knows when to flash high to create a better passing angle instead of having Melo tussle around on the block and eat up seconds while the guard trying an entry pass struggles to find an passing window he is comfortable with. If Noah can keep up his +5 ast per 36 avg while playing 70+ games it will go along way to helping out the short comings of Rose as a play-maker.

In a perfect world Rose would change his game and becomes a real distributor. I want to see 10 ast this year. If he was a better scorer then I wouldn't think he would need that many but he has never scored efficiently enough to warrant the shots he takes which decreases his ast opps. He is playing with an older and slightly different Melo but it would be nice if Rose could have a revival like Iverson did when playing with Melo in Denver. Iverson was the older vet then so maybe shaving nearly 8% off his usg% came easier I don't know.

Yeah, good point about Noah (if he can stay healthy). I hope Rose can have the humility to realize that he really should only be shooting near the rim and creating for others.

REALLY? I think you are sounding a bit ridiculous now. If you think that Rose and Jennings are not going to make a marked improvement for this team you're LOST. They will make the pass to Melo, KP, Lee and Noah. They will make the pass to open teammates. This notion that they will somehow ignore players they respect is bogus. Just because these aren't Pure PG's that look to pass the ball at every moment doesn't mean they aren't going to have a positive impact for this team. They're scoring guards.

Also not only Noah, but Melo, KP, KOQ and Willy can pass the ball effectively. There will be enough TEAM passing to make things work.

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:THANK YOU CRUSHALOT!!! That is a masterpiece of breaking down exactly what the real deal is with Melo and this team. Phil has put a team together that has a real legit chance to be a top team in this league. Each player will help the other to see much easier and more open looks.

Hornacek will also be able to spread the love with his rotations. We shouldn't have to play any part of the game without at least one of our top 6 players on the floor. People should not underestimate the impact that will have.

It is a great video. I hope Rose will want to share the ball (and stays healthy). It's amazing Phil, Dolan, Mills, etc. have not surrounded Melo with even one adequate play-maker.

If you count Noah then that would make one but I know you mean guard. Jennings seemed like he was making strides of becoming an adequate play-maker but then he got hurt. I expect PGs to avg at least 8 ast per 36. On this team the two guards are not going to help so it will be up to the PGs, Noah, and KP to make plays for Melo. I think having Noah IQ will really help Melo especially when he post up because he needs a big that knows when to flash high to create a better passing angle instead of having Melo tussle around on the block and eat up seconds while the guard trying an entry pass struggles to find an passing window he is comfortable with. If Noah can keep up his +5 ast per 36 avg while playing 70+ games it will go along way to helping out the short comings of Rose as a play-maker.

In a perfect world Rose would change his game and becomes a real distributor. I want to see 10 ast this year. If he was a better scorer then I wouldn't think he would need that many but he has never scored efficiently enough to warrant the shots he takes which decreases his ast opps. He is playing with an older and slightly different Melo but it would be nice if Rose could have a revival like Iverson did when playing with Melo in Denver. Iverson was the older vet then so maybe shaving nearly 8% off his usg% came easier I don't know.

Yeah, good point about Noah (if he can stay healthy). I hope Rose can have the humility to realize that he really should only be shooting near the rim and creating for others.

REALLY? I think you are sounding a bit ridiculous now. If you think that Rose and Jennings are not going to make a marked improvement for this team you're LOST. They will make the pass to Melo, KP, Lee and Noah. They will make the pass to open teammates. This notion that they will somehow ignore players they respect is bogus. Just because these aren't Pure PG's that look to pass the ball at every moment doesn't mean they aren't going to have a positive impact for this team. They're scoring guards.

Also not only Noah, but Melo, KP, KOQ and Willy can pass the ball effectively. There will be enough TEAM passing to make things work.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:THANK YOU CRUSHALOT!!! That is a masterpiece of breaking down exactly what the real deal is with Melo and this team. Phil has put a team together that has a real legit chance to be a top team in this league. Each player will help the other to see much easier and more open looks.

Hornacek will also be able to spread the love with his rotations. We shouldn't have to play any part of the game without at least one of our top 6 players on the floor. People should not underestimate the impact that will have.

It is a great video. I hope Rose will want to share the ball (and stays healthy). It's amazing Phil, Dolan, Mills, etc. have not surrounded Melo with even one adequate play-maker.

If you count Noah then that would make one but I know you mean guard. Jennings seemed like he was making strides of becoming an adequate play-maker but then he got hurt. I expect PGs to avg at least 8 ast per 36. On this team the two guards are not going to help so it will be up to the PGs, Noah, and KP to make plays for Melo. I think having Noah IQ will really help Melo especially when he post up because he needs a big that knows when to flash high to create a better passing angle instead of having Melo tussle around on the block and eat up seconds while the guard trying an entry pass struggles to find an passing window he is comfortable with. If Noah can keep up his +5 ast per 36 avg while playing 70+ games it will go along way to helping out the short comings of Rose as a play-maker.

In a perfect world Rose would change his game and becomes a real distributor. I want to see 10 ast this year. If he was a better scorer then I wouldn't think he would need that many but he has never scored efficiently enough to warrant the shots he takes which decreases his ast opps. He is playing with an older and slightly different Melo but it would be nice if Rose could have a revival like Iverson did when playing with Melo in Denver. Iverson was the older vet then so maybe shaving nearly 8% off his usg% came easier I don't know.

Yeah, good point about Noah (if he can stay healthy). I hope Rose can have the humility to realize that he really should only be shooting near the rim and creating for others.

REALLY? I think you are sounding a bit ridiculous now. If you think that Rose and Jennings are not going to make a marked improvement for this team you're LOST. They will make the pass to Melo, KP, Lee and Noah. They will make the pass to open teammates. This notion that they will somehow ignore players they respect is bogus. Just because these aren't Pure PG's that look to pass the ball at every moment doesn't mean they aren't going to have a positive impact for this team. They're scoring guards.

Also not only Noah, but Melo, KP, KOQ and Willy can pass the ball effectively. There will be enough TEAM passing to make things work.

maybe he thinks jose "red carpet" calderon was markedly better

You might be confusing me with mreinman. That said, I think Rose hurt his team on offense (not defense) more than Calderon did last year. 16 points on 16 shots a game is just brutal. But if Rose is healthy and has a better mindset next year, he'll be a big improvement from Calderon. Even if he plays like he did in the 2nd half of last season, it might be a little improvement.

He probably hurt the bulls worse on defense. He was down right awful and was even worse on D as his offense improved a little towards the end of the year.

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:THANK YOU CRUSHALOT!!! That is a masterpiece of breaking down exactly what the real deal is with Melo and this team. Phil has put a team together that has a real legit chance to be a top team in this league. Each player will help the other to see much easier and more open looks.

Hornacek will also be able to spread the love with his rotations. We shouldn't have to play any part of the game without at least one of our top 6 players on the floor. People should not underestimate the impact that will have.

It is a great video. I hope Rose will want to share the ball (and stays healthy). It's amazing Phil, Dolan, Mills, etc. have not surrounded Melo with even one adequate play-maker.

If you count Noah then that would make one but I know you mean guard. Jennings seemed like he was making strides of becoming an adequate play-maker but then he got hurt. I expect PGs to avg at least 8 ast per 36. On this team the two guards are not going to help so it will be up to the PGs, Noah, and KP to make plays for Melo. I think having Noah IQ will really help Melo especially when he post up because he needs a big that knows when to flash high to create a better passing angle instead of having Melo tussle around on the block and eat up seconds while the guard trying an entry pass struggles to find an passing window he is comfortable with. If Noah can keep up his +5 ast per 36 avg while playing 70+ games it will go along way to helping out the short comings of Rose as a play-maker.

In a perfect world Rose would change his game and becomes a real distributor. I want to see 10 ast this year. If he was a better scorer then I wouldn't think he would need that many but he has never scored efficiently enough to warrant the shots he takes which decreases his ast opps. He is playing with an older and slightly different Melo but it would be nice if Rose could have a revival like Iverson did when playing with Melo in Denver. Iverson was the older vet then so maybe shaving nearly 8% off his usg% came easier I don't know.

Yeah, good point about Noah (if he can stay healthy). I hope Rose can have the humility to realize that he really should only be shooting near the rim and creating for others.

REALLY? I think you are sounding a bit ridiculous now. If you think that Rose and Jennings are not going to make a marked improvement for this team you're LOST. They will make the pass to Melo, KP, Lee and Noah. They will make the pass to open teammates. This notion that they will somehow ignore players they respect is bogus. Just because these aren't Pure PG's that look to pass the ball at every moment doesn't mean they aren't going to have a positive impact for this team. They're scoring guards.

Also not only Noah, but Melo, KP, KOQ and Willy can pass the ball effectively. There will be enough TEAM passing to make things work.

Again, I'll believe it when I see it. I don't take a crystal ball out and foresee players making dramatic changes. I expect players to do what they've always done until they actually show me otherwise. Normally people don't expect a player to take better shots when he goes from a .550 team (Bulls last 2 year average) to a sub .400 team. They'd expect worse shots actually. Maybe Hornacek will get through to Rose in a way that other coaches haven't. I haven't ruled out the possibility by any means but I don't give it high odds either.

You're failing is that you are assuming that the behavior is due to some flaw of the player rather than due to circumstances. Just like the video points out WHO a player is playing with has a HUGE impact on how they play. So you are making a judgment based on a lack of information. You think you have facts but in truth you're only looking at the results and not the cause.

Rose will pass the ball:

2013-14

Pass To	Team	FREQUENCY PASS	AST	FGM	FGA	FG%	2FGM	2FGA	2FG%	3FGM	3FGA	3FG%
Deng, Luol	21.7%	  13.0	0.7	0.8	3.0	26.7	0.7	2.4	29.2	0.1	0.6	16.7
Noah, Joakim	20.1%	  12.0	0.6	0.7	1.6	43.8	0.7	1.6	43.8	0.0	0.0	-
Butler, Jimmy	17.4%	  10.4	0.8	1.0	2.2	45.5	0.6	1.2	50.0	0.4	1.0	40.0
Boozer, Carlos	16.1%	   9.6	1.3	1.6	3.2	50.0	1.6	3.2	50.0	0.0	0.0	-
Hinrich, Kirk	12.0%	   7.2	0.2	0.2	0.7	28.6	0.1	0.3	33.3	0.1	0.4	25.0
Dunleavy, Mike	7.9%	   4.7	0.6	0.6	0.9	66.7	0.3	0.5	60.0	0.3	0.4	75.0
Gibson, Taj	3.5%	   2.1	0.1	0.1	0.5	20.0	0.1	0.5	20.0	0.0	0.0	-
Mohammed, Nazr	0.8%	   0.5	0.0	0.0	0.2	0.0	0.0	0.2	0.0	0.0	0.0	-
Snell, Tony	0.5%	   0.3	0.0	0.0	0.2	0.0	0.0	0.1	0.0	0.0	0.1	0.0

2014-15

Pass To	Team	FREQUENCY PASS	AST	FGM	FGA	FG%	2FGM	2FGA	2FG%	3FGM	3FGA	3FG%
Gasol, Pau	28.3%	  15.2	1.7	2.3	5.0	46.5	2.3	4.9	46.4	0.1	0.1	50.0
Butler, Jimmy   21.3%	  11.4	1.2	1.4	2.9	48.3	1.0	2.1	48.1	0.4	0.8	48.7
Noah, Joakim    14.3%	   7.7	0.3	0.4	1.0	38.8	0.4	1.0	38.8	0.0	0.0	-
Dunleavy, Mike  11.9%	   6.4	0.5	0.6	1.3	44.6	0.3	0.6	48.4	0.3	0.7	41.2
Hinrich, Kirk	6.6%	   3.5	0.3	0.3	0.6	48.4	0.1	0.2	54.5	0.2	0.4	45.0
Snell, Tony     5.3%	   2.8	0.3	0.3	0.7	42.9	0.1	0.3	53.8	0.2	0.4	36.4
Gibson, Taj     5.2%	   2.8	0.3	0.3	0.7	45.9	0.3	0.7	45.9	0.0	0.0	-
Mirotic, Nikola	3.1%	   1.7	0.1	0.2	0.6	25.0	0.1	0.2	27.3	0.1	0.4	23.8
Brooks, Aaron	2.8%	   1.5	0.1	0.2	0.5	36.0	0.1	0.2	25.0	0.1	0.3	46.2

2015-16

Pass To	Team	FREQUENCY PASS	AST	FGM	FGA	FG%	2FGM	2FGA	2FG%	3FGM	3FGA	3FG%
Gasol, Pau      28.2%	  15.5	1.5	1.8	3.8	48.2	1.8	3.6	49.2	0.1	0.2	27.3
Butler, Jimmy	25.8%	  14.2	0.6	1.4	3.4	42.3	1.2	2.6	46.8	0.2	0.8	27.8
Mirotic, Nikola	8.6%	   4.7	0.4	0.5	1.2	40.5	0.2	0.5	40.0	0.3	0.7	40.8
Gibson, Taj	8.5%	   4.7	0.4	0.6	1.0	56.3	0.6	1.0	56.3	0.0	0.0	-
Moore, E'Twaun	6.0%	   3.3	0.4	0.5	0.9	54.8	0.3	0.6	54.1	0.2	0.4	56.0
McDermott, Doug	4.6%	   2.5	0.4	0.4	0.9	46.8	0.2	0.4	41.4	0.3	0.5	51.5
Snell, Tony	4.2%	   2.3	0.3	0.3	0.7	50.0	0.1	0.2	46.7	0.2	0.4	51.7
Portis, Bobby	3.8%	   2.1	0.2	0.2	0.7	31.1	0.2	0.6	35.0	0.0	0.1	0.0
Dunleavy, Mike	3.5%	   1.9	0.2	0.2	0.5	51.6	0.1	0.2	50.0	0.1	0.3	52.9
Noah, Joakim	3.3%	   1.8	0.1	0.1	0.2	54.5	0.1	0.2	54.5	0.0	0.0	-
Brooks, Aaron	1.1%	   0.6	0.0	0.1	0.2	28.6	0.1	0.1	60.0	0.0	0.1	11.1

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201565/tracking/passes/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=FREQUENCY&dir=1

What makes the big difference is players being open and Rose having respect for that player's scoring ability. He will pass to his teammates on the Knicks because he respects their ability to score and they will be open.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:THANK YOU CRUSHALOT!!! That is a masterpiece of breaking down exactly what the real deal is with Melo and this team. Phil has put a team together that has a real legit chance to be a top team in this league. Each player will help the other to see much easier and more open looks.

Hornacek will also be able to spread the love with his rotations. We shouldn't have to play any part of the game without at least one of our top 6 players on the floor. People should not underestimate the impact that will have.

It is a great video. I hope Rose will want to share the ball (and stays healthy). It's amazing Phil, Dolan, Mills, etc. have not surrounded Melo with even one adequate play-maker.

If you count Noah then that would make one but I know you mean guard. Jennings seemed like he was making strides of becoming an adequate play-maker but then he got hurt. I expect PGs to avg at least 8 ast per 36. On this team the two guards are not going to help so it will be up to the PGs, Noah, and KP to make plays for Melo. I think having Noah IQ will really help Melo especially when he post up because he needs a big that knows when to flash high to create a better passing angle instead of having Melo tussle around on the block and eat up seconds while the guard trying an entry pass struggles to find an passing window he is comfortable with. If Noah can keep up his +5 ast per 36 avg while playing 70+ games it will go along way to helping out the short comings of Rose as a play-maker.

In a perfect world Rose would change his game and becomes a real distributor. I want to see 10 ast this year. If he was a better scorer then I wouldn't think he would need that many but he has never scored efficiently enough to warrant the shots he takes which decreases his ast opps. He is playing with an older and slightly different Melo but it would be nice if Rose could have a revival like Iverson did when playing with Melo in Denver. Iverson was the older vet then so maybe shaving nearly 8% off his usg% came easier I don't know.

Yeah, good point about Noah (if he can stay healthy). I hope Rose can have the humility to realize that he really should only be shooting near the rim and creating for others.

REALLY? I think you are sounding a bit ridiculous now. If you think that Rose and Jennings are not going to make a marked improvement for this team you're LOST. They will make the pass to Melo, KP, Lee and Noah. They will make the pass to open teammates. This notion that they will somehow ignore players they respect is bogus. Just because these aren't Pure PG's that look to pass the ball at every moment doesn't mean they aren't going to have a positive impact for this team. They're scoring guards.

Also not only Noah, but Melo, KP, KOQ and Willy can pass the ball effectively. There will be enough TEAM passing to make things work.

Again, I'll believe it when I see it. I don't take a crystal ball out and foresee players making dramatic changes. I expect players to do what they've always done until they actually show me otherwise. Normally people don't expect a player to take better shots when he goes from a .550 team (Bulls last 2 year average) to a sub .400 team. They'd expect worse shots actually. Maybe Hornacek will get through to Rose in a way that other coaches haven't. I haven't ruled out the possibility by any means but I don't give it high odds either.

You're failing is that you are assuming that the behavior is due to some flaw of the player rather than due to circumstances. Just like the video points out WHO a player is playing with has a HUGE impact on how they play. So you are making a judgment based on a lack of information. You think you have facts but in truth you're only looking at the results and not the cause.

Rose will pass the ball:

2013-14

Pass To	Team	FREQUENCY PASS	AST	FGM	FGA	FG%	2FGM	2FGA	2FG%	3FGM	3FGA	3FG%
Deng, Luol	21.7%	  13.0	0.7	0.8	3.0	26.7	0.7	2.4	29.2	0.1	0.6	16.7
Noah, Joakim	20.1%	  12.0	0.6	0.7	1.6	43.8	0.7	1.6	43.8	0.0	0.0	-
Butler, Jimmy	17.4%	  10.4	0.8	1.0	2.2	45.5	0.6	1.2	50.0	0.4	1.0	40.0
Boozer, Carlos	16.1%	   9.6	1.3	1.6	3.2	50.0	1.6	3.2	50.0	0.0	0.0	-
Hinrich, Kirk	12.0%	   7.2	0.2	0.2	0.7	28.6	0.1	0.3	33.3	0.1	0.4	25.0
Dunleavy, Mike	7.9%	   4.7	0.6	0.6	0.9	66.7	0.3	0.5	60.0	0.3	0.4	75.0
Gibson, Taj	3.5%	   2.1	0.1	0.1	0.5	20.0	0.1	0.5	20.0	0.0	0.0	-
Mohammed, Nazr	0.8%	   0.5	0.0	0.0	0.2	0.0	0.0	0.2	0.0	0.0	0.0	-
Snell, Tony	0.5%	   0.3	0.0	0.0	0.2	0.0	0.0	0.1	0.0	0.0	0.1	0.0

2014-15

Pass To	Team	FREQUENCY PASS	AST	FGM	FGA	FG%	2FGM	2FGA	2FG%	3FGM	3FGA	3FG%
Gasol, Pau	28.3%	  15.2	1.7	2.3	5.0	46.5	2.3	4.9	46.4	0.1	0.1	50.0
Butler, Jimmy   21.3%	  11.4	1.2	1.4	2.9	48.3	1.0	2.1	48.1	0.4	0.8	48.7
Noah, Joakim    14.3%	   7.7	0.3	0.4	1.0	38.8	0.4	1.0	38.8	0.0	0.0	-
Dunleavy, Mike  11.9%	   6.4	0.5	0.6	1.3	44.6	0.3	0.6	48.4	0.3	0.7	41.2
Hinrich, Kirk	6.6%	   3.5	0.3	0.3	0.6	48.4	0.1	0.2	54.5	0.2	0.4	45.0
Snell, Tony     5.3%	   2.8	0.3	0.3	0.7	42.9	0.1	0.3	53.8	0.2	0.4	36.4
Gibson, Taj     5.2%	   2.8	0.3	0.3	0.7	45.9	0.3	0.7	45.9	0.0	0.0	-
Mirotic, Nikola	3.1%	   1.7	0.1	0.2	0.6	25.0	0.1	0.2	27.3	0.1	0.4	23.8
Brooks, Aaron	2.8%	   1.5	0.1	0.2	0.5	36.0	0.1	0.2	25.0	0.1	0.3	46.2

2015-16

Pass To	Team	FREQUENCY PASS	AST	FGM	FGA	FG%	2FGM	2FGA	2FG%	3FGM	3FGA	3FG%
Gasol, Pau      28.2%	  15.5	1.5	1.8	3.8	48.2	1.8	3.6	49.2	0.1	0.2	27.3
Butler, Jimmy	25.8%	  14.2	0.6	1.4	3.4	42.3	1.2	2.6	46.8	0.2	0.8	27.8
Mirotic, Nikola	8.6%	   4.7	0.4	0.5	1.2	40.5	0.2	0.5	40.0	0.3	0.7	40.8
Gibson, Taj	8.5%	   4.7	0.4	0.6	1.0	56.3	0.6	1.0	56.3	0.0	0.0	-
Moore, E'Twaun	6.0%	   3.3	0.4	0.5	0.9	54.8	0.3	0.6	54.1	0.2	0.4	56.0
McDermott, Doug	4.6%	   2.5	0.4	0.4	0.9	46.8	0.2	0.4	41.4	0.3	0.5	51.5
Snell, Tony	4.2%	   2.3	0.3	0.3	0.7	50.0	0.1	0.2	46.7	0.2	0.4	51.7
Portis, Bobby	3.8%	   2.1	0.2	0.2	0.7	31.1	0.2	0.6	35.0	0.0	0.1	0.0
Dunleavy, Mike	3.5%	   1.9	0.2	0.2	0.5	51.6	0.1	0.2	50.0	0.1	0.3	52.9
Noah, Joakim	3.3%	   1.8	0.1	0.1	0.2	54.5	0.1	0.2	54.5	0.0	0.0	-
Brooks, Aaron	1.1%	   0.6	0.0	0.1	0.2	28.6	0.1	0.1	60.0	0.0	0.1	11.1

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201565/tracking/passes/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=FREQUENCY&dir=1

What makes the big difference is players being open and Rose having respect for that player's scoring ability. He will pass to his teammates on the Knicks because he respects their ability to score and they will be open.

I definitely realize the situation impacts player performance. It is not normal to predict that a player going to a team with 10 less wins has a better supporting cast though. However, if Rose mistakenly believes this roster is better, he might start taking better shots, which would help a lot.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:THANK YOU CRUSHALOT!!! That is a masterpiece of breaking down exactly what the real deal is with Melo and this team. Phil has put a team together that has a real legit chance to be a top team in this league. Each player will help the other to see much easier and more open looks.

Hornacek will also be able to spread the love with his rotations. We shouldn't have to play any part of the game without at least one of our top 6 players on the floor. People should not underestimate the impact that will have.

It is a great video. I hope Rose will want to share the ball (and stays healthy). It's amazing Phil, Dolan, Mills, etc. have not surrounded Melo with even one adequate play-maker.

If you count Noah then that would make one but I know you mean guard. Jennings seemed like he was making strides of becoming an adequate play-maker but then he got hurt. I expect PGs to avg at least 8 ast per 36. On this team the two guards are not going to help so it will be up to the PGs, Noah, and KP to make plays for Melo. I think having Noah IQ will really help Melo especially when he post up because he needs a big that knows when to flash high to create a better passing angle instead of having Melo tussle around on the block and eat up seconds while the guard trying an entry pass struggles to find an passing window he is comfortable with. If Noah can keep up his +5 ast per 36 avg while playing 70+ games it will go along way to helping out the short comings of Rose as a play-maker.

In a perfect world Rose would change his game and becomes a real distributor. I want to see 10 ast this year. If he was a better scorer then I wouldn't think he would need that many but he has never scored efficiently enough to warrant the shots he takes which decreases his ast opps. He is playing with an older and slightly different Melo but it would be nice if Rose could have a revival like Iverson did when playing with Melo in Denver. Iverson was the older vet then so maybe shaving nearly 8% off his usg% came easier I don't know.

Yeah, good point about Noah (if he can stay healthy). I hope Rose can have the humility to realize that he really should only be shooting near the rim and creating for others.

REALLY? I think you are sounding a bit ridiculous now. If you think that Rose and Jennings are not going to make a marked improvement for this team you're LOST. They will make the pass to Melo, KP, Lee and Noah. They will make the pass to open teammates. This notion that they will somehow ignore players they respect is bogus. Just because these aren't Pure PG's that look to pass the ball at every moment doesn't mean they aren't going to have a positive impact for this team. They're scoring guards.

Also not only Noah, but Melo, KP, KOQ and Willy can pass the ball effectively. There will be enough TEAM passing to make things work.

Again, I'll believe it when I see it. I don't take a crystal ball out and foresee players making dramatic changes. I expect players to do what they've always done until they actually show me otherwise. Normally people don't expect a player to take better shots when he goes from a .550 team (Bulls last 2 year average) to a sub .400 team. They'd expect worse shots actually. Maybe Hornacek will get through to Rose in a way that other coaches haven't. I haven't ruled out the possibility by any means but I don't give it high odds either.

You're failing is that you are assuming that the behavior is due to some flaw of the player rather than due to circumstances. Just like the video points out WHO a player is playing with has a HUGE impact on how they play. So you are making a judgment based on a lack of information. You think you have facts but in truth you're only looking at the results and not the cause.

Rose will pass the ball:

2013-14

Pass To	Team	FREQUENCY PASS	AST	FGM	FGA	FG%	2FGM	2FGA	2FG%	3FGM	3FGA	3FG%
Deng, Luol	21.7%	  13.0	0.7	0.8	3.0	26.7	0.7	2.4	29.2	0.1	0.6	16.7
Noah, Joakim	20.1%	  12.0	0.6	0.7	1.6	43.8	0.7	1.6	43.8	0.0	0.0	-
Butler, Jimmy	17.4%	  10.4	0.8	1.0	2.2	45.5	0.6	1.2	50.0	0.4	1.0	40.0
Boozer, Carlos	16.1%	   9.6	1.3	1.6	3.2	50.0	1.6	3.2	50.0	0.0	0.0	-
Hinrich, Kirk	12.0%	   7.2	0.2	0.2	0.7	28.6	0.1	0.3	33.3	0.1	0.4	25.0
Dunleavy, Mike	7.9%	   4.7	0.6	0.6	0.9	66.7	0.3	0.5	60.0	0.3	0.4	75.0
Gibson, Taj	3.5%	   2.1	0.1	0.1	0.5	20.0	0.1	0.5	20.0	0.0	0.0	-
Mohammed, Nazr	0.8%	   0.5	0.0	0.0	0.2	0.0	0.0	0.2	0.0	0.0	0.0	-
Snell, Tony	0.5%	   0.3	0.0	0.0	0.2	0.0	0.0	0.1	0.0	0.0	0.1	0.0

2014-15

Pass To	Team	FREQUENCY PASS	AST	FGM	FGA	FG%	2FGM	2FGA	2FG%	3FGM	3FGA	3FG%
Gasol, Pau	28.3%	  15.2	1.7	2.3	5.0	46.5	2.3	4.9	46.4	0.1	0.1	50.0
Butler, Jimmy   21.3%	  11.4	1.2	1.4	2.9	48.3	1.0	2.1	48.1	0.4	0.8	48.7
Noah, Joakim    14.3%	   7.7	0.3	0.4	1.0	38.8	0.4	1.0	38.8	0.0	0.0	-
Dunleavy, Mike  11.9%	   6.4	0.5	0.6	1.3	44.6	0.3	0.6	48.4	0.3	0.7	41.2
Hinrich, Kirk	6.6%	   3.5	0.3	0.3	0.6	48.4	0.1	0.2	54.5	0.2	0.4	45.0
Snell, Tony     5.3%	   2.8	0.3	0.3	0.7	42.9	0.1	0.3	53.8	0.2	0.4	36.4
Gibson, Taj     5.2%	   2.8	0.3	0.3	0.7	45.9	0.3	0.7	45.9	0.0	0.0	-
Mirotic, Nikola	3.1%	   1.7	0.1	0.2	0.6	25.0	0.1	0.2	27.3	0.1	0.4	23.8
Brooks, Aaron	2.8%	   1.5	0.1	0.2	0.5	36.0	0.1	0.2	25.0	0.1	0.3	46.2

2015-16

Pass To	Team	FREQUENCY PASS	AST	FGM	FGA	FG%	2FGM	2FGA	2FG%	3FGM	3FGA	3FG%
Gasol, Pau      28.2%	  15.5	1.5	1.8	3.8	48.2	1.8	3.6	49.2	0.1	0.2	27.3
Butler, Jimmy	25.8%	  14.2	0.6	1.4	3.4	42.3	1.2	2.6	46.8	0.2	0.8	27.8
Mirotic, Nikola	8.6%	   4.7	0.4	0.5	1.2	40.5	0.2	0.5	40.0	0.3	0.7	40.8
Gibson, Taj	8.5%	   4.7	0.4	0.6	1.0	56.3	0.6	1.0	56.3	0.0	0.0	-
Moore, E'Twaun	6.0%	   3.3	0.4	0.5	0.9	54.8	0.3	0.6	54.1	0.2	0.4	56.0
McDermott, Doug	4.6%	   2.5	0.4	0.4	0.9	46.8	0.2	0.4	41.4	0.3	0.5	51.5
Snell, Tony	4.2%	   2.3	0.3	0.3	0.7	50.0	0.1	0.2	46.7	0.2	0.4	51.7
Portis, Bobby	3.8%	   2.1	0.2	0.2	0.7	31.1	0.2	0.6	35.0	0.0	0.1	0.0
Dunleavy, Mike	3.5%	   1.9	0.2	0.2	0.5	51.6	0.1	0.2	50.0	0.1	0.3	52.9
Noah, Joakim	3.3%	   1.8	0.1	0.1	0.2	54.5	0.1	0.2	54.5	0.0	0.0	-
Brooks, Aaron	1.1%	   0.6	0.0	0.1	0.2	28.6	0.1	0.1	60.0	0.0	0.1	11.1

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201565/tracking/passes/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=FREQUENCY&dir=1

What makes the big difference is players being open and Rose having respect for that player's scoring ability. He will pass to his teammates on the Knicks because he respects their ability to score and they will be open.

I definitely realize the situation impacts player performance. It is not normal to predict that a player going to a team with 10 less wins has a better supporting cast though. However, if Rose mistakenly believes this roster is better, he might start taking better shots, which would help a lot.

Again you're making strange assumptions. This Knicks team isn't the same one that only won 32 games last season. It's a different team. So what you're saying makes no sense. What we do know is that Rose didn't play with Melo, KP and Lee last year. If you really believe that isn't a better supporting cast then I don't know what to say. Do you really want us to believe that Rose won't find better spacing playing with these players? You think Rose won't make the pass to a Melo, KP or Lee if they're open?

He had 2 excellent all-star teammates last year. When I said I don't think this is a better supporting cast, I meant compared to his all-star teammates in Chicago the past few seasons, not compared to the Knicks roster last year. It's possible Rose thinks these guys are better than his all-stars in Chicago or he just likes them more. Then maybe (but not definitely) he will take better shots.

So you're just gonna fall back on the "Rose played with All Stars" line but not take a deeper look at that team and how this team is actually structured? Melo, KP and Lee can spread the floor in a FAR superior way to the Starting lineups he had last year.

  
G	W	L	W/L%	Starting Lineup
12	7	5	.583	J. Butler ▪ P. Gasol ▪ N. Mirotic ▪ D. Rose ▪ T. Snell
12	6	6	.500	J. Butler ▪ P. Gasol ▪ T. Gibson ▪ D. Rose ▪ T. Snell
9	4	5	.444	J. Butler ▪ P. Gasol ▪ T. Gibson ▪ N. Mirotic ▪ D. Rose
7	3	4	.429	M. Dunleavy ▪ P. Gasol ▪ T. Gibson ▪ E. Moore ▪ D. Rose
6	3	3	.500	J. Butler ▪ M. Dunleavy ▪ P. Gasol ▪ T. Gibson ▪ D. Rose
4	3	1	.750	J. Butler ▪ P. Gasol ▪ D. McDermott ▪ N. Mirotic ▪ D. Rose
3	1	2	.333	J. Butler ▪ P. Gasol ▪ T. Gibson ▪ E. Moore ▪ D. Rose
3	3	0	1.000	J. Butler ▪ P. Gasol ▪ T. Gibson ▪ K. Hinrich ▪ N. Mirotic
3	1	2	.333	M. Dunleavy ▪ P. Gasol ▪ T. Gibson ▪ E. Moore ▪ T. Snell