Let's breakdown some of the key components below:

PASSING-

Knicks arguably have plus to elite passers at almost every position. Specifically, at least one of the starters at each spot or his potential backup.

Frontcourt:
This has the makings of the best frontcourt passing trio in the NBA
Noah has had a 14 assist game (against us coincdentally),multiple double digit assist contents and has had years averaging close to 6 assists as a Center.
KP has shown tremendous passing ability for a rookie and guy his size from the 4 spot.
Melo when in a groove/rythym is an excellent disher himself.

Backcourt:
Rose is known as a scorer first but is a pretty decent passer himself.
Jennings can be mistake prone but is a strong ball distributor.
Hornaceks system will also play a role as it should also facilate better passing with superior spacing, motion and movement vs Fisher/Rambis .

DEFENSE-

We have a plus defender at each position even at PG as Jennings av opp FG % of -2.8 is very good.

Interior:
KP and Noah are extremely mobile and excellent shotblockers who will greatly influence teams desires to drive to the hoop.Thomas and OQuinn can provide some help and ruggedness here as well.

Perimeter:
Not shutdown but Lee,Thomas,Jennings and Melo(in big spots) are all plus defenders.The system that Hornacel plays will play a big role here too.

SCORING-

Scoring and playoff/clutch scoring is usually dependant on true offensive star power. A trio of Rose,Melo and KP health permitting, is up there with almost any trio in the league. Hornacek also said there wont be anymore wholesale 'hockey-subbing' this year either and intends to always have 2 of Melo,KP and Rose on the floor almost at all times.

3 PT SHOOTING-

I think this is the biggest weakness though we are not horrible here. Thomas and Lee were close to 40%, Melo when he gets hot is a tremendous 3 ball scorer, Jennings is streaky, and KP has shown touch from there when he is on. Add in likely better spacing in Hornaceks system coupled with some guys who can create open shots off the drive (Jennings/Rose) and excellent passing big men (Noah,Porzingus) there will be alot more open shots this year created by better motion ,passing and drives then dishing.

CHARACTER/TEAM CHEMISTRY-

I think Phil was very deliberate in choosing high character players. Noah should bring an instant spark and should be a great locker room presence and warrior.IMO Melo has been the consummate team player on the Knicks and should be reenergized with all the talent around him. Rose gets a bad wrap ,isnt well spoken, but is the ultimate warrior has worked phenomally hard this offseason, and is very well regarded by his teammates and around the league.

VERSATILITY-

One of the keys in todays NBA is ability to match up with the myriad of strengths of other starting line ups out there and be able to dictate your own brand or style when necessary.

Starting line-up:
Noah/KP/Melo/Lee/Rose. Not elite in evry facet of the game (few line-ups are) but There is Defense,size,shotblocking,passing ,and 3 ball ability.

Small ball:
A line up of KP/Melo/Lee/Jennings/Rose or KP/Thomas/Melo/Lee/Jennings or other slight variations provides better speed,some dribble drive penetration and decent to very good 3 ball ability.

Defense (end of quarter or close out a game with lead):
Noah/KP/Thomas/Lee/Jennings (or slight variation) all plus defenders at their respective positions.

COACHING/SYSTEM-

This is a factor not discussed as much but this could be as big a component as any of the previously mentioned. I dont think Fisher or Rambis were remotely close to NBA average coaches. Substitution patterns,spacing , set plays ,strategy were all head scratching to say the least. If Hornacek is as advertised: leading a fairly non -descript Suns teams to 48 win season with an exciting brand of offense that generated excellent motion and spacing, and smart rotations on defense, he could do much better with the talent Phil has assembled for him this year.

EwingsGlass wrote:Solid analysis. When I think of the weakness in 3pt shooting, I tend to believe that Jax elected not to pursue that portion of the free agent market as it is overpriced presently. When considering high efficiency shots, And1 3 point plays by drawing fouls are highly efficient. With the added benefit of creating mismatches caused by foul trouble. Unfortunately, we are betting on guys being healthy enough to get to the rim where their recent efficiency has been suspect. This team should not win this year, but should be a really good base to establish a winning culture and an effective system.

If teams choose to leave Noah open that will most likely help him to improve his efficiency as most players will shoot better with a defender much further away. Plus he's smart enough to know that he doesn't have to shoot just cuz he's open. Noah will put the ball on the floor and drive which people tend to forget that he can do.

This is the broken down Noah showing even with his diminished physical ability that he can still move well enough. Hopefully we'll get a fresher legged version of Noah next season.

nixluva wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Solid analysis. When I think of the weakness in 3pt shooting, I tend to believe that Jax elected not to pursue that portion of the free agent market as it is overpriced presently. When considering high efficiency shots, And1 3 point plays by drawing fouls are highly efficient. With the added benefit of creating mismatches caused by foul trouble. Unfortunately, we are betting on guys being healthy enough to get to the rim where their recent efficiency has been suspect. This team should not win this year, but should be a really good base to establish a winning culture and an effective system.

I agree that the OP did a really good job with his team analysis. I disagree that as you say this team should not win this year. On this roster with so much talent it will serve to make it easier for every player to score than it would be with less talent. So guys that were inefficient last year have a BETTER shot at improving when playing with other good players. WHY? Because defenses will have an extremely hard time keeping up with everyone on this team. They may be successful in defensive rotations for a while but sooner or later they will leave someone open and most everyone is a threat in some way.

If teams choose to leave Noah open that will most likely help him to improve his efficiency as most players will shoot better with a defender much further away. Plus he's smart enough to know that he doesn't have to shoot just cuz he's open. Noah will put the ball on the floor and drive which people tend to forget that he can do.

This is the broken down Noah showing even with his diminished physical ability that he can still move well enough. Hopefully we'll get a fresher legged version of Noah next season.

KnixinSix wrote:Let's contemplate this for a minute: if they remain relatively healthy what is this re-loaded Phil Jackson squad missing at this point?

Let's breakdown some of the key components below:

PASSING-

Knicks arguably have plus to elite passers at almost every position. Specifically, at least one of the starters at each spot or his potential backup.

Frontcourt:
This has the makings of the best frontcourt passing trio in the NBA
Noah has had a 14 assist game (against us coincdentally),multiple double digit assist contents and has had years averaging close to 6 assists as a Center.
KP has shown tremendous passing ability for a rookie and guy his size from the 4 spot.
Melo when in a groove/rythym is an excellent disher himself.

Backcourt:
Rose is known as a scorer first but is a pretty decent passer himself.
Jennings can be mistake prone but is a strong ball distributor.
Hornaceks system will also play a role as it should also facilate better passing with superior spacing, motion and movement vs Fisher/Rambis .

DEFENSE-

We have a plus defender at each position even at PG as Jennings av opp FG % of -2.8 is very good.

Interior:
KP and Noah are extremely mobile and excellent shotblockers who will greatly influence teams desires to drive to the hoop.Thomas and OQuinn can provide some help and ruggedness here as well.

Perimeter:
Not shutdown but Lee,Thomas,Jennings and Melo(in big spots) are all plus defenders.The system that Hornacel plays will play a big role here too.

SCORING-

Scoring and playoff/clutch scoring is usually dependant on true offensive star power. A trio of Rose,Melo and KP health permitting, is up there with almost any trio in the league. Hornacek also said there wont be anymore wholesale 'hockey-subbing' this year either and intends to always have 2 of Melo,KP and Rose on the floor almost at all times.

3 PT SHOOTING-

I think this is the biggest weakness though we are not horrible here. Thomas and Lee were close to 40%, Melo when he gets hot is a tremendous 3 ball scorer, Jennings is streaky, and KP has shown touch from there when he is on. Add in likely better spacing in Hornaceks system coupled with some guys who can create open shots off the drive (Jennings/Rose) and excellent passing big men (Noah,Porzingus) there will be alot more open shots this year created by better motion ,passing and drives then dishing.

CHARACTER/TEAM CHEMISTRY-

I think Phil was very deliberate in choosing high character players. Noah should bring an instant spark and should be a great locker room presence and warrior.IMO Melo has been the consummate team player on the Knicks and should be reenergized with all the talent around him. Rose gets a bad wrap ,isnt well spoken, but is the ultimate warrior has worked phenomally hard this offseason, and is very well regarded by his teammates and around the league.

VERSATILITY-

One of the keys in todays NBA is ability to match up with the myriad of strengths of other starting line ups out there and be able to dictate your own brand or style when necessary.

Starting line-up:
Noah/KP/Melo/Lee/Rose. Not elite in evry facet of the game (few line-ups are) but There is Defense,size,shotblocking,passing ,and 3 ball ability.

Small ball:
A line up of KP/Melo/Lee/Jennings/Rose or KP/Thomas/Melo/Lee/Jennings or other slight variations provides better speed,some dribble drive penetration and decent to very good 3 ball ability.

Defense (end of quarter or close out a game with lead):
Noah/KP/Thomas/Lee/Jennings (or slight variation) all plus defenders at their respective positions.

COACHING/SYSTEM-

This is a factor not discussed as much but this could be as big a component as any of the previously mentioned. I dont think Fisher or Rambis were remotely close to NBA average coaches. Substitution patterns,spacing , set plays ,strategy were all head scratching to say the least. If Hornacek is as advertised: leading a fairly non -descript Suns teams to 48 win season with an exciting brand of offense that generated excellent motion and spacing, and smart rotations on defense, he could do much better with the talent Phil has assembled for him this year.

At first I'm thinking RonRon's brother?

EwingsGlass wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Solid analysis. When I think of the weakness in 3pt shooting, I tend to believe that Jax elected not to pursue that portion of the free agent market as it is overpriced presently. When considering high efficiency shots, And1 3 point plays by drawing fouls are highly efficient. With the added benefit of creating mismatches caused by foul trouble. Unfortunately, we are betting on guys being healthy enough to get to the rim where their recent efficiency has been suspect. This team should not win this year, but should be a really good base to establish a winning culture and an effective system.

I agree that the OP did a really good job with his team analysis. I disagree that as you say this team should not win this year. On this roster with so much talent it will serve to make it easier for every player to score than it would be with less talent. So guys that were inefficient last year have a BETTER shot at improving when playing with other good players. WHY? Because defenses will have an extremely hard time keeping up with everyone on this team. They may be successful in defensive rotations for a while but sooner or later they will leave someone open and most everyone is a threat in some way.

If teams choose to leave Noah open that will most likely help him to improve his efficiency as most players will shoot better with a defender much further away. Plus he's smart enough to know that he doesn't have to shoot just cuz he's open. Noah will put the ball on the floor and drive which people tend to forget that he can do.

This is the broken down Noah showing even with his diminished physical ability that he can still move well enough. Hopefully we'll get a fresher legged version of Noah next season.

My intention is to say I do not expect them to win a chip this year. Not to not win any games. I think franchise growth developing the system and the bench will take a couple years. I do not think this team is built to win it all this year. Every team has a swinger's chance. They might catch lightning in a bottle. But to expect this team to win this year, the first year implementing a new system is intellectually dishonest. That kind of optimism is how Karate Kid became a hit movie. Thinking a kid training for one summer could best the black belts with personality disorders. Teams take time to develop. Franchises do as well. The Celts did it in one, so it's not impossible, but the landscape has changed since then. It's unrealistic. Let's start by making the playoffs and take it from there.

Lee is the only starter that is green to the Triangle. Everyone should be able to grasp High PnR or Horns as JH has used them. It will take some time to adjust as all new groups need time to adjust. That's what the long season is for and I suspect they should be better as they get more familiar with each other. There have been teams that came together and won a title in their 1st year together. Not saying the Knicks will be one but it's possible.

I trust Hornacek to simplify things so that the players can be more successful. He strikes me as a smart coach that will give them an offensive attack that will enhance their skills and talents and not hamper them. If he sees something works I suspect he'll run more of that. This is a different approach than we've had and I think it will help this team be MUCH more successful.

martin wrote:I think the health of Rose and Noah are the keys. They play up to expectations - and we can simmer them a bit - Knicks will do well.

Cleveland is on a tier of their own. After that? Maybe the Knicks can fit into the next level. I don't think Toronto is anything special. You heard me DJ.

The Knicks are a total wild card. They were .500 last year with KP/Melo/Lance playing well. That was before Lopez's very good 2nd half. Afflalo played well for a stretch once he got back. They should certainly be a playoff team, there just aren't 8 better teams unless we are really decimated by injuries. If we get 60 reasonably healthy games from Noah/Rose/Jennings we should be at least a 45 win team, with potential for much more. Surely the object is to just make the playoffs and avoid a first round meeting with the Cavs. Accomplish that with a reasonably healthy roster and we have a great chance to make some noise.

I am very excited about the season but reserving judgment. I like how the pieces fit on paper. WE have no clue what kind of rotations we will see, who establishes themselves as the key reserves, although Jennings, Lance, Willy, KOQ, Holiday, Kuz, etc... looks like a good crew.

Does KP take the next step and how does Hornacek use him? I mean what happens if he KP really does seem ready to be a go to player, and focal point, as was hinted in Martin's thread. http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=54842

Can Justin Holiday provide anything as a backup wing?

Do Hernangomez and the Lithuanian make an impact? Does "Kuz" replace Williams...Can Willy become a backup 5 his rookie year?

Is KOQ going to get splinters or will he show some pride and come in a new man?

Can Jennings show Phil that he belongs on the team after this season?

How do Rose/Melo/Noah work together?

If all of these questions are answered in a positive way, I don't see why we can be a top 4 team, and only the Cavs seem unbeatable at this point. Raptors, Bull, Celtics...they are all vulnerable, and if we are at the top of our game and uninjured, we can beat them.

meloanyk wrote:Rose colored glasses in some areas. Rose and Jennings are below average defenders and Noah defensive metrics had faded even before latest injury. Melo is accused of playing poor D but it is good to see perceptions of him changing whethr it be his D or leadership qualities, he can be more than adequate but he cant expend nightly. KP D is excellent around the paint but some matchups vs 4's are problematic. Thomas and Holiday are excellent defenders off bench. Rose avg only 4.7 assists and has a mediocre asts/to ratio. Noah is an above average passer at 5 but Melo and Lee are average and no one is confusing KP with a young Diaw yet. Lee is the only true 3 pt shooter on team. Melo and KP can take but not consistent. Rose long range shooting blows but can get into paint with pull ups and floaters. Noah cant shoot beyond ten and his conversions around basket have fallen the past few years. Noah is intense and vocal but Roblin was of character. Rose is stoic but his past stature speaks for itself . We know about KP and Melo and Lee's persona is better suited to his supporting actor role better than Affalo. Thomas is tremendous work ethic and supposedly so does Jennings. Not sure that this team is as versatile as we'd like to believe. Position switches have dropoffs and bench has voids. 44 wins , 2nd rd exit

PG D can be an issue...means that Noah and KP will have to be active down low on D.

I think we could look at teams like the Raptors and Celtics and see some weaknesses...they are not super teams, IMO.

Who knows which team will be hot at the end of the regular season...maybe the Knicks are that team?

That cliche- "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts" might end up applying to the Knicks...sometimes when you look at individual players too closely in judging a team, you forget to see the bigger picture. None of us know how this team is going to mesh, but if we are healthy, I'm going to bet that we'll be a dangerous opponent by the end of the year- when it really counts.

meloanyk wrote:Rose colored glasses in some areas. Rose and Jennings are below average defenders and Noah defensive metrics had faded even before latest injury. Melo is accused of playing poor D but it is good to see perceptions of him changing whethr it be his D or leadership qualities, he can be more than adequate but he cant expend nightly. KP D is excellent around the paint but some matchups vs 4's are problematic. Thomas and Holiday are excellent defenders off bench. Rose avg only 4.7 assists and has a mediocre asts/to ratio. Noah is an above average passer at 5 but Melo and Lee are average and no one is confusing KP with a young Diaw yet. Lee is the only true 3 pt shooter on team. Melo and KP can take but not consistent. Rose long range shooting blows but can get into paint with pull ups and floaters. Noah cant shoot beyond ten and his conversions around basket have fallen the past few years. Noah is intense and vocal but Roblin was of character. Rose is stoic but his past stature speaks for itself . We know about KP and Melo and Lee's persona is better suited to his supporting actor role better than Affalo. Thomas is tremendous work ethic and supposedly so does Jennings. Not sure that this team is as versatile as we'd like to believe. Position switches have dropoffs and bench has voids. 44 wins , 2nd rd exit

I actually think this is one of the better constructed teams in the East. When this team is on I think they could be the 2nd best team in the East. They shouldn't have scoring or defensive issues when they go to the bench. Not if JH runs his rotations as he said and always has one or 2 of his top players on the floor. No more platoon style rotations!

I expect this to be a very good defensive team. People bring up Rose but with KP, Noah and Lee out there he will not be as exposed as people think. He will be quick enough to recover with help from the others plus LT and Holiday also give the team good length and quickness off the bench. JH says he wants to be top 10 defensively and I think that is possible. We don't have Jose n AA anymore.

Hornacek is a huge factor IMO. His offensive tactics are to go for the most efficient ways to score. It seems some are overlooking how this could impact the very talented scorers on this team. He knows how to get his team going and he's never had this much talent to work with.

WaltLongmire wrote:Too many "ifs" with the Knicks, but I'm optimistic, and of course the big variable is health. Rose/Noah/Melo/Lance/Jennings...they all had significant injuries last year, or a history of being injured.

Does KP take the next step and how does Hornacek use him? I mean what happens if he KP really does seem ready to be a go to player, and focal point, as was hinted in Martin's thread. http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=54842

Can Justin Holiday provide anything as a backup wing?

Do Hernangomez and the Lithuanian make an impact? Does "Kuz" replace Williams...Can Willy become a backup 5 his rookie year?

Is KOQ going to get splinters or will he show some pride and come in a new man?

Can Jennings show Phil that he belongs on the team after this season?

How do Rose/Melo/Noah work together?

If all of these questions are answered in a positive way, I don't see why we can be a top 4 team, and only the Cavs seem unbeatable at this point. Raptors, Bull, Celtics...they are all vulnerable, and if we are at the top of our game and uninjured, we can beat them.