Malcolm wrote:There seems to me something not right with how this has all gone down.

Jackson old and tired (?) Maybe.

Jackson threatened by sabotage from Dolan or Anthony (?) Maybe.

Jackson going through motions just to earn his salary and salvage
his reputation (?) Maybe.

Hornacek is probably a decent coach and Knicks will probably have
decent success with him.

So what (?)

They could have had something better . . . beyond mere basketball.

If they had followed through on developing Triangle Culture.

I'm just waiting to see what (if anything . . .) Rambis has to say
about this apparently drastic U-turn.

Last season we had to play strict triangle, midrange, slow post up basketball. That's the type of players we had. Next year we will have 2 fast guards playing heavy minutes in Jerian and Wroten so the offense well change by default.

Phil has the potential to really hit a home run this off season. We're so close to being good again. Not just a one hit winder like the 50 win team a few years back. We could set up the next 3 years and beyond.

EnySpree wrote:I would go as far as to say that Golden states offense was taken from what Hornacek did during his 48 win team. No coincidence sinice Kerr took over 2 years ago.

Last season we had to play strict triangle, midrange, slow post up basketball. That's the type of players we had. Next year we will have 2 fast guards playing heavy minutes in Jerian and Wroten so the offense well change by default.

Phil has the potential to really hit a home run this off season. We're so close to being good again. Not just a one hit winder like the 50 win team a few years back. We could set up the next 3 years and beyond.

Just to back up your theory:

in the NBA coaching stable.

-- Presides over one of the most exciting teams in the Western Conference.

-- Not Jeff Hornacek.

But Steve Kerr, who completed his sixth game as an NBA coach Sunday at US Airways Center, is happy to embrace any comparisons to the Phoenix coach.

"I think Jeff and I are pretty similar personalities," Kerr said before his Golden State Warriors hit sloppy mode and blew the game. "There's a lot of fire inside, but pretty calm and laid back at the same time.

"I think players appreciate that. You don't want a huge emotional rollercoaster ride every day, but you gotta have some direction and some fire, so I looked at Jeff, the job he did last year and the success he had and drew inspiration from that. I still watch him and his team with respect. They do a lot of innovative things offensively and they play hard and they're obviously really well coached."

Suns rally in fourth to beat Warriors

Isaiah Thomas and Gerald Green lead the Suns to a come-from-behind win over Golden State.
The well-coached evidence wasn't very obvious on Sunday for either team, but that's what can happen during an 82-game season. Looking pragmatically, the Warriors at 5-1 and Suns at 4-3 seem to be in very good, strategic hands.

"I just learned so much just trying to guard him in practice every day," Kerr said referring to his rookie season (1988-89). "Once he went to Utah, he was one of the guys I tried to emulate.

"I wasn't nearly as good as him, but he inspired me to get better. The guy's a basketball savant. You feel it as a teammate and playing against him, I knew it was only a matter of time before he got into the coaching ranks."

And it was inevitable that Kerr, a standout at the University of Arizona and serial NBA champion (three in Chicago, two in San Antonio), would make the transition.

"This suits me well," he said of coaching. "I really love to be on the floor with the players. I love being part of the group every day and trying to help our team get better. But to be part of it every single minute is really exciting for me.

"To be honest, I didn't ever think I'd play in the NBA, so I thought I would coach right out of college. The NBA career kinda happened, didn't expect it, but it happened. Once I was done playing, my kids were sort of junior-high age and I knew the toll that coaching can take, family-wise ... so I chose the TV route to balance out my life, which worked great. Now my kids don't care where I am every day, so I might as well coach."

STILL RUNNING BEHIND

The more Hornacek implores his team to play at a faster tempo, the more the tempo remains about the same.

Bench brings Suns back for big win
Although the Suns moved up to sixth in possessions per 48 minutes, the 95.7 mark is about where they were last season.

As usual, the issue is walking the ball into the frontcourt after an opponent score. The other transition variables, however, are rising into place.

Phoenix ranks 14th in the league in defensive efficiency (relatively high for this franchise) and ninth in defensive-rebounding efficiency. Those upgrades help generate more transition opportunities.

But after leading the league in fast-break points per game last season (18.7), the statistical defensive improvements haven't prevented a slip to third (16.6) this season.

Fast-break efficiency is a bit higher, so the trigger that isn't being pulled seems to be in the players' overall approach.

"We weren't getting into our offense quick enough," Hornacek said when asked about the pace of his team's first five games. "We're only hitting our first option and then the second option we were breaking it off because the shot clock was at five.

"Even if we call a half-court set, we need to run down the court and get to our spots quicker and start the play at 20 (seconds on the shot clock). If we can start the play at 19 or 20, we have time to run the different options. It's gotta be that mindset. Sometimes when the other team makes it, makes a shot, we're thinking 'ah, we let the guy score.' You gotta forget about it and always be on the attack. If we can keep that in our heads, we'll try to do a better job of continuing that, waving and saying, 'let's go, let's go.'

"We've got to take it out and go and kind of see if we can get the other teams to play in our pace sometimes."

NOTHING SUB-VERSIVE

With only two starters working the fourth quarter of Sunday's come-from-behind party against the Warriors, you might think chemistry issues are due.

This wasn't the first time Isaiah Thomas and Gerald Green dominated down the stretch of a game with Eric Bledsoe and Goran Dragic spectating. But anyone keeping an eye on the bench could see Bledsoe popping off his seat to lead the cheers and Dragic high-fiving his teammates when Golden State called a string of time outs.

"Those guys were fine with it," Hornacek said. "Again, that will help us as the season goes on -- not wearing those guys out. Goran played great, got us going and making 3s and looking like the normal Goran."

The culture is changed and the focus is on winning.

Nalod wrote:Im looking forward to reading from Phil than these many assumptions.
I was not aware the triangle be antiquiated. I saw the lack of success as having deficient talent compared to the better teams.
Progress was made last year despite the inability of Fisher to keep his team. Rambis was unable to connect with his players.

Its not like Rambis failed as the "high priest from the order of three sides" and now we must seek further enlightenment.
My understanding of the triangle is not great, but I do know when phil speaks of it as the culture, its about the motion of 5 men in synch.
That we say at times, but not often enough.
I'd day JH will bring uptempo to the game, but that is born from good defense as well.

You have to read what I've posted above and also go watch some of the videos done about Hornacek's Offense. This will be a progressive shift towards how he sees the game which we now know heavily influenced what Kerr decided to do among other things like what he saw from MDA, Phil and Pop.

JH is going to eventually move this team towards more of a GS Warriors style but it's gonna take time to upgrade the roster and tweak the Triangle to feature more of the aspects of the offense that fit how JH sees the game.

IMO it won't take much to tweak the Triangle. The rules and reads can remain but with a shift in emphasis on speed and spacing out to the 3pt line rather than in the midrange and more PnR rather than just Dribble Handoffs. Not necessary to change everything when minor tweaks will get the job done.

Nalod wrote:HF had a team that was stacked with guards!!!!
Kerr was inspired, and Im sure he would be. Look at who he inherited!!!!!

You make assumptions as if JH waives his magic wand and has similar results.

so I looked at Jeff, the job he did last year and the success he had and drew inspiration from that. I still watch him and his team with respect. They do a lot of innovative things offensively and they play hard and they're obviously really well coached."

Nalod wrote:Hey, IM happy with JH. But this Nixluva sales pitch is all exciting but when I go to the cupbard im not finding the Splash brothers, I see Grant, Galloway and Jose.
Wroten is a project who we have no idea about.
I expect our guard play to improve with JH, but Im not getting a chubbie like Nixluva from Kerrs inspiration.
IM excited that Melo is better than Draymond (offensively) and GodZingis is beyond compare from any team thus mentioned.
I'll wait until September to evaluate the roster. Maybe we can stop talking about Shved?

This isn't about the Splash Brothers!!! Hornacek had quality guards and wings that could run, penetrate, pass and shoot. Clearly he's gonna be asking Phil for those types of players because that's what he believes in. You've got to go and read more of Hornacek's philosophies on the game. He's not going to abandon them. It's how he sees the game and he will gradually push this franchise in that direction. JH being a guard sees things from that perspective and he's gonna be riding our guards like Secretariat. LOL.

Phil won't come out and say it but he's also recognizing the need to move in that direction. This is demonstrated by Kerr the man he originally wanted, Luke the man he coveted but couldn't get and Hornacek who is the inspiration to Kerr and the direction he went with the Warriors. Hornacek is not going to play slow it down, pack it in the paint basketball. That's going to require more team speed and shooting.

EwingsGlass wrote:If I mentioned here that Jax fired Fisher 7 days after Horny became a free agent, would this conspiracy take more validity? Could it be seen as an indicator to Horny not to take another job in the meantime? Would you be impressed that nothing hit the press on this? Or is it just coincidence?

Hornacek said he never spoke a word to phil before Phil reached out to him this spring when the coaching search began, so I doubt they had some under the table agreement in place once JH became available. And even if there was an agreement, that would not be a reason to fire Fisher in the middle of the season as opposed to the end. The fact that Phil fired Fisher halfway through the season is evidence that Phil just no longer had confidence in Fisher's ability to lead the team according to Phil's vision.

callmened wrote:i have no problem with hornecek. i wouldve preferred vogel or thibs - but i have no problem with hornecek. the knicks issue is lack of talent - specifically in the back court. that's what would impress me with phil

That is PRECISELY why I created this thread!!! Phil is aware of the situation with the Backcourt and the way the Knicks play the game is going thru a change of focus. Phil hiring Hornacek is an admission that Phil realizes he needs to adapt to the times. He needs a coach that has the right mix of BB IQ and temperament to lead this team.

The roster is going to change!!! 3pt shooting will be a bigger part of what this team does along with more spacing, faster tempo and PnR!

Phil Jackson says 3-point shooting has changed the spacing of today's NBA. He suggests at an American Express event that the triangle still has a place in the NBA but that the spacing may need to be adjusted due to the 3-point shot.