Nalod wrote:http://nypost.com/2016/05/23/did-frank-vogel-take-subtle-digs-at-phil-jackson-in-magic-intro/

Great ownership? Really, AMway scam artists. Right wing conservatives that give away millions to influence (Like KOCH Brothers), Hired Billy Donovan and he freaking ran away from them. Shoved Skiles down GM's throat? Not much of a winning tradition and seem to run off their stars. Look into these guys politics and you might understand why some might have a problem there. I'll take Dolan any day over that low life ownership family!!

http://www.politicalresearch.org/2015/12/22/the-koch-like-family-youve-never-heard-of-influencing-state-legislatures/#sthash.oE4QiHjf.dpbs

Vogel took the gig, good for him. Its a great living and he is paid a fortune. I like the guy. In the love fest that is a press conference he is suppose to say all nice things about the new city, the players, the owner and the fans. Bermans a hack. If Vogel said "Orlando has great weather", he'd create it as a dig on NYC weather. If he said "Orlando is a great family city" Berman would spin it as if NYC was not.

Orlando is a small city, big family entertainment type place, lots of Midwest transplants down there, and great weather. Its Not NYC.
Shame on you Berman for creating a "Dig" where none exists. Vogel interviewed in other cities as well. Orlando is a good gig and the pay is great.
Phil likes guys that played in the NBA like he did. The GM nor Vogel played other than Div. III. Its just different.

Phil got his guy. Orlando got theirs. No story. Just clown like report to stir up ignorant readers. Phil is arrogant because he won 13 titles as a player and coach. Never won as an exec and some of you like that angle. Its worthless, just makes you feel better about your self to dislike the guy with all the money and fame. A guy hired to do a job is arrogant because he won't do what fans want? He is arrogant because he thinks he is smarter than others (he is)? Ok, perhaps he'd be humble if others didn't try to take him down. Dude has 11 rings and one "Coach of the year award". I'd hate on that also. He is arrogant because he is inflexible. Most uber successful people are. They are flexible enough to have earned those results? He is trying to create an organization based on the principles that worked for him as a coach. Not really hard to understand that. In two seasons he has haters because we have not turned this team around after years of abuse and drained resources. We never heard a peep from our GM's in years, so his privacy is not unusual.

While this whole "mecca" thing is a bunch of hype (we are the Mecca of what again?), fans that lop this kind of crap up demonstrate not that we are "Best fans in the country", or "We are the mecca of basketball", but "A bunch of dumb ass starphuchers who worship in the worlds greatest arena". Then to hear some of this low life reporting regurgitated back on these very forums as "My feeling is......" is maddening.
"Well how else are we suppose to know whats going on?" Guess what, the team is not public domain. We watch, we experience and the basketball we see tells the story, not Berman. Phil will put out his "PHil Files" soon enough and perhaps we are lucky enough to win while he is employed here for him to write a book. Read the mans words, he writes books. He explains himself and his failures.

To call this article anything resembling "Journalism" is insulting to those who actually perform that occupation! Shame on you Berman!!!!

Well said and i agree but i'm not sure how this stuff by our trash media people would surprise you since this is what they do and we don't have too many new york media people that don't go out of their way to trash everything Knicks.

newyorker4ever wrote:

Nalod wrote:http://nypost.com/2016/05/23/did-frank-vogel-take-subtle-digs-at-phil-jackson-in-magic-intro/

Great ownership? Really, AMway scam artists. Right wing conservatives that give away millions to influence (Like KOCH Brothers), Hired Billy Donovan and he freaking ran away from them. Shoved Skiles down GM's throat? Not much of a winning tradition and seem to run off their stars. Look into these guys politics and you might understand why some might have a problem there. I'll take Dolan any day over that low life ownership family!!

http://www.politicalresearch.org/2015/12/22/the-koch-like-family-youve-never-heard-of-influencing-state-legislatures/#sthash.oE4QiHjf.dpbs

Vogel took the gig, good for him. Its a great living and he is paid a fortune. I like the guy. In the love fest that is a press conference he is suppose to say all nice things about the new city, the players, the owner and the fans. Bermans a hack. If Vogel said "Orlando has great weather", he'd create it as a dig on NYC weather. If he said "Orlando is a great family city" Berman would spin it as if NYC was not.

Orlando is a small city, big family entertainment type place, lots of Midwest transplants down there, and great weather. Its Not NYC.
Shame on you Berman for creating a "Dig" where none exists. Vogel interviewed in other cities as well. Orlando is a good gig and the pay is great.
Phil likes guys that played in the NBA like he did. The GM nor Vogel played other than Div. III. Its just different.

Phil got his guy. Orlando got theirs. No story. Just clown like report to stir up ignorant readers. Phil is arrogant because he won 13 titles as a player and coach. Never won as an exec and some of you like that angle. Its worthless, just makes you feel better about your self to dislike the guy with all the money and fame. A guy hired to do a job is arrogant because he won't do what fans want? He is arrogant because he thinks he is smarter than others (he is)? Ok, perhaps he'd be humble if others didn't try to take him down. Dude has 11 rings and one "Coach of the year award". I'd hate on that also. He is arrogant because he is inflexible. Most uber successful people are. They are flexible enough to have earned those results? He is trying to create an organization based on the principles that worked for him as a coach. Not really hard to understand that. In two seasons he has haters because we have not turned this team around after years of abuse and drained resources. We never heard a peep from our GM's in years, so his privacy is not unusual.

While this whole "mecca" thing is a bunch of hype (we are the Mecca of what again?), fans that lop this kind of crap up demonstrate not that we are "Best fans in the country", or "We are the mecca of basketball", but "A bunch of dumb ass starphuchers who worship in the worlds greatest arena". Then to hear some of this low life reporting regurgitated back on these very forums as "My feeling is......" is maddening.
"Well how else are we suppose to know whats going on?" Guess what, the team is not public domain. We watch, we experience and the basketball we see tells the story, not Berman. Phil will put out his "PHil Files" soon enough and perhaps we are lucky enough to win while he is employed here for him to write a book. Read the mans words, he writes books. He explains himself and his failures.

To call this article anything resembling "Journalism" is insulting to those who actually perform that occupation! Shame on you Berman!!!!

Well said and i agree but i'm not sure how this stuff by our trash media people would surprise you since this is what they do and we don't have too many new york media people that don't go out of their way to trash everything Knicks.

Im surprised how bad it was this off season.
Even Fish got a pass, it seems that in the past the press would bash the coach, but in this instance they bashed Phil for putting Fish in this situation! No doubt it was an awful hire in hindsight but go back to the decision when hired, it was solid a that moment.
PHil was blasted for being able to NOT be in NY all the time to work. Media grabs that and rubs out noses in it because the average worker can't do that. Nalod remotes in from all over and works because I am paid for what I do, not the time I put in to do it. So it does not rub me the wrong way.
IS phil accountable for his actions? In the "Files" and in his books he is, but not to the media. Doesn't the action on the court and outcome from the came speak enough?
Just because we know what the knicks need, does not mean we know the best way to get it, nor are we accountable. For example Briggs can suggest 20 players every year. If one or two pan out, he can say "Told yah so", but the fact is he has to pick exactly one or two, and give up on one or two. Gets tricky. Im not calling out just Briggs as most of us do this. We see a player in the NCAA and say, "man we should get that dude"......... Teams are actually accountable for their decisions while fans are not.

Media has not accountability what so ever on anything they "report". They can just snip away over and over again!

BigDaddyG wrote:I agree with most of your post, Nalod
But the best thing you could've done is ignored this article altogether. It's summer, the Knicks are out of the playoffs without a draft pick. They're called hacks for a reason
Phil could help things by being a little less condescending to the media. But who cares at the end of the day? The only thing that matters ia the team's improvement.

+1
Phil wins a chip here and he can up his media condescension levels to Popovich DEFCON 5. Nobody will say sheehit then.
Except the likes of Bermanbury.

New York media is almost completely trash.

nixluva wrote:There used to be a time where there were some good media guys and a lot more balance, but right now it's unreal how bad it is in NY. I like Herring. He tends to keep it mostly about basketball.

I used to like Isola. He was just getting started when I was in high school. He was Herring back in the day. I say that to prove the point how the media has become. Disgusting to say the least.... they even use their garbage against us by belittling fans when they react to their garbage. Yet people still buy the paper everyday even though they have a smart phone in their pocket.

With music? I stopped listening to the radio when I realized they weren't going to play real music. Just like now, I don't buy or read newspapers because they are full of ****. It's the Internet age. ESPN is garbage too. They are anti new York. That don't fly with me so I don't watch unless a game is on.

We as fans gotta stand for something. Too many outlets to get info.

Nalod wrote:He is trying to create an organization based on the principles that worked for him as a coach. Not really hard to understand that.

All of this media noise just makes everything more intense and I'm not
immune to that.

I'd have been fine if Jackson hadn't messed up with the Fisher hiring.

I want to be an unconditional "In Phil We Trust" guy. But now that he
screwed up with Fisher . . . I worry. I'm not relaxed and take all of
the media stuff more to heart than I should.

I'm really concerned about this Hornacek hire. I'd have been happier
with Rambis. Maybe it will be okay -- I'd like to still give Jackson the
benefit of the doubt.

But if Rambis isn't on the coaching staff (as evidence of renewed
commitment to the Triangle) . . . that's very bad news, in my opinion.

Nalod wrote:

Malcolm wrote:

Nalod wrote:He is trying to create an organization based on the principles that worked for him as a coach. Not really hard to understand that.

Being a Knicks fan has been harder than I expected it would be.

All of this media noise just makes everything more intense and I'm not
immune to that.

I'd have been fine if Jackson hadn't messed up with the Fisher hiring.

I want to be an unconditional "In Phil We Trust" guy. But now that he
screwed up with Fisher . . . I worry. I'm not relaxed and take all of
the media stuff more to heart than I should.

I'm really concerned about this Hornacek hire. I'd have been happier
with Rambis. Maybe it will be okay -- I'd like to still give Jackson the
benefit of the doubt.

But if Rambis isn't on the coaching staff (as evidence of renewed
commitment to the Triangle) . . . that's very bad news, in my opinion.

We went from Dolan driving major decisions to Phil. WIth only 2 years on the payroll there has been disappointments and things did not go according as we would have liked.
Thing is, for Phil or anyone to succeed THEY have to forget and move forward. "Shake it off".....we hear that about Eli Manning that he can do that, great shooters keep shooting, and great minds have to stick to what makes them successful.

No, this is not coaching and phil is not bringing in a conventional approach. Few can succeed by following the trend, you have to create one.
Its entirely possible that Phil will fall flat on his face, but its not like things were just fine and dandy here either.
Im not here to sell you, or find some statistical evidence that Phil will succeed. Some fans want that to have faith. In fact, the whole notion of the "Starphuch" is the assumption that a previous players or coach's success previously will follow them to the new team.
Phil is a starphuch, but we are not asking him to coach, we are asking him to make critical decisions for the long term. I was shocked when phil took the job given how depleted our assets were from years of trading away picks, not having a deep roster, and little trading assets.

This is why Im "forgiving". Im a fan rooting for this philosophical shift of thinking to take hold. We drafted a potential superstar!!! A 7'3 Latvian god!!!! Where that goes, I don't know.

Guy's 70 effing years old. It's legacy time. His ego is obviously monstrous. All those great players made the coach great can be dispelled somewhat if Phil turns this team completely around and brings the franchise a chip. There was no one to lean on. Nothing but his books and his knowledge and will.

He brings a chip, and the road to godhood will be paved with Bermanberries.

Its not Phil's fault that blatt and Vogel was the fans and media's choice, and Phil ignored that...

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The media will not be nice to you if your not nice with them. They didn't trash Walsh or grunwald..Phil, like Isaiah have kept their distance from the media. Once you do that Ppl are going to speculate what you might thinking. They will come with a source that provided the info, when half the time its their on thoughts.

Its not Phil's fault that blatt and Vogel was the fans and media's choice, and Phil ignored that...

Phil made them look stupid, but not on purpose. Media created their own version. My take is Phil did not see this as public relations event like some other teams have. teams are getting huge exposure for their search. Some teams do it quickly, some do it nice, and others without regard to the media or coach. Bird pretty much made his mind up despite that Vogel was head coach for 6 years. Its a tough biz.

Phil can explain himself in due time. Given he can profit from it, he'll write it and i'll buy his book. He can also revisit it in hindsight as well. That makes his stuff interesting.

Yeah, Im a fan. Im rooting for him to succeed. Not sure the chip comes in the next three years, but lets get to the playoffs, have some fun and then move up the ladder.

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:The media will not be nice to you if your not nice with them. They didn't trash Walsh or grunwald..Phil, like Isaiah have kept their distance from the media. Once you do that Ppl are going to speculate what you might thinking. They will come with a source that provided the info, when half the time its their on thoughts.

Its not Phil's fault that blatt and Vogel was the fans and media's choice, and Phil ignored that...

Phil made them look stupid, but not on purpose. Media created their own version. My take is Phil did not see this as public relations event like some other teams have. teams are getting huge exposure for their search. Some teams do it quickly, some do it nice, and others without regard to the media or coach. Bird pretty much made his mind up despite that Vogel was head coach for 6 years. Its a tough biz.

Phil can explain himself in due time. Given he can profit from it, he'll write it and i'll buy his book. He can also revisit it in hindsight as well. That makes his stuff interesting.

Yeah, Im a fan. Im rooting for him to succeed. Not sure the chip comes in the next three years, but lets get to the playoffs, have some fun and then move up the ladder.

Totally agree. Unfortunately I end up reading Berman more than I want. Generally there is no new information only references to information already out there or speculation and assumptions on his part.

Maybe like most things, instead of conjecture, we just wait until the facts are presented. I'd like to think Berman and others have read Phil's books or use the "Files" if they want to fill in with an opinion. But it does not appear to be so.