Not only will the Raptors be playing Game 1 of their first conference finals series in Cleveland, they also will be finding out where the first-round pick they acquired in exchange for Andrea Bargnani falls in the 2016 NBA draft.

It’s the lesser of New York and Denver’s first-round picks -- meaning it can be as high as No. 2 or 3 but far more likely in the 8-12 range -- and it came in Masai Ujiri’s first transaction since taking over as GM for Bryan Colangelo on May 31, 2013, a heist of the nth degree.

Can we trade Ujiri for Phil Jackson, straight up? I mean, I know the Bargnani trade isn't his fault, but this is how you manage. This is how you deal. Done well in Denver and even better in Toronto. Would love to have someone like this at the helm for our Knicks.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nba/post/_/id/20010/raptors-gm-masai-ujiri-front-office-staff-put-franchise-in-position-to-enjoy-memorable-tuesday

Guy's legit.

Nalod wrote:Denver, if it picks lower than the Knick pick (Toronto) gets to swap it. Basically Toronto will pick 9th where Denver sits.
This is perhaps why the pick was not protected, because it couldn't be protected.
One would have thought both Denver and the Knicks 5 years later would not be in this position, but we are.

So we gonna keep lamenting on the past? Ujiri left Denver in good shape (Kronke's are like Dolans so it did not matter) and Ujiri got a pretty good team and asset base to build on.
Moving Bargnani was a good move for them, but its limited by the swap.

It's not a good move. It's a great move for a team that's 4 wins from the NBA finals. Usually, you don't put high lottery pick and top 4 team in the same sentence. Don't undersell the magnitude and scope of it.

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:Denver, if it picks lower than the Knick pick (Toronto) gets to swap it. Basically Toronto will pick 9th where Denver sits.
This is perhaps why the pick was not protected, because it couldn't be protected.
One would have thought both Denver and the Knicks 5 years later would not be in this position, but we are.

So we gonna keep lamenting on the past? Ujiri left Denver in good shape (Kronke's are like Dolans so it did not matter) and Ujiri got a pretty good team and asset base to build on.
Moving Bargnani was a good move for them, but its limited by the swap.

It's not a good move. It's a great move for a team that's 4 wins from the NBA finals. Usually, you don't put high lottery pick and top 4 team in the same sentence. Don't undersell the magnitude and scope of it.

Oh, sorry, I should have used better words. But reality is the 9th pick in this draft might not move the dial for a team 4 wins from the finals. In fact, they might do better to trade it. Why? if they are this close they should consider deals to put them over the top, or close to it!!! Its still a good, oops, a "Phuching amazing asset given what a piece of crap Bargnani was"........

But its not a high lottery pick.......

From Berman (notice how they get little digs in on the melo trade):

The Knicks traded their 2016 first-rounder to Toronto in the Andrea Bargnani disaster in 2014. However, under the terms of the semi-disaster Carmelo Anthony trade with the Nuggets, Denver has the right to swap for the Knicks’ pick, which is now controlled by the Raptors.
As it stands, Toronto is seeded No. 7, based on the Knicks’ seventh-worst record (32-50), with a 4.3 percent chance at the No. 1 pick. Denver is seeded ninth. If Toronto shoots to No. 1, Denver snatches it and the Raptors get the Nuggets’ position. Hence, if the Knicks had their pick, the most likely scenario was Jackson choosing at No. 9 in a relatively modest draft. Still, it would’ve been a lot better than nothing

Even if it's not the 2nd or 3rd pick and ends up the 9th pick...it's a great consolation prize to potentially replace a Derozan or Biyombo if they happen to leave in free agency.

This isn't a knock on Phil, but more admiration for the foresight and expertise Ujiri wields to maintain the status quo for the contending Raptors, and having built in contingency plans if one of their core players leaves.

We haven't had that in Knicksland....since pretty much ever. A Ewing leaves or is traded, there's a huge moon crater sized hole for over a decade. Houston, LJ, and Spree move on....no immediate replacement. It's just musical chairs of Al Harrington's, Jamal Crawford's, Duhon's, Felton's, Bargnani's, Amare/Chandler/Melo type players but no true steady foundation to lay rock on and groom replacements when the stars fade.

Depressing.

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

Nalod wrote:Denver, if it picks lower than the Knick pick (Toronto) gets to swap it. Basically Toronto will pick 9th where Denver sits.
This is perhaps why the pick was not protected, because it couldn't be protected.
One would have thought both Denver and the Knicks 5 years later would not be in this position, but we are.

So we gonna keep lamenting on the past? Ujiri left Denver in good shape (Kronke's are like Dolans so it did not matter) and Ujiri got a pretty good team and asset base to build on.
Moving Bargnani was a good move for them, but its limited by the swap.

It's not a good move. It's a great move for a team that's 4 wins from the NBA finals. Usually, you don't put high lottery pick and top 4 team in the same sentence. Don't undersell the magnitude and scope of it.

Oh, sorry, I should have used better words. But reality is the 9th pick in this draft might not move the dial for a team 4 wins from the finals. In fact, they might do better to trade it. Why? if they are this close they should consider deals to put them over the top, or close to it!!! Its still a good, oops, a "Phuching amazing asset given what a piece of crap Bargnani was"........

But its not a high lottery pick.......

From Berman (notice how they get little digs in on the melo trade):

The Knicks traded their 2016 first-rounder to Toronto in the Andrea Bargnani disaster in 2014. However, under the terms of the semi-disaster Carmelo Anthony trade with the Nuggets, Denver has the right to swap for the Knicks’ pick, which is now controlled by the Raptors.
As it stands, Toronto is seeded No. 7, based on the Knicks’ seventh-worst record (32-50), with a 4.3 percent chance at the No. 1 pick. Denver is seeded ninth. If Toronto shoots to No. 1, Denver snatches it and the Raptors get the Nuggets’ position. Hence, if the Knicks had their pick, the most likely scenario was Jackson choosing at No. 9 in a relatively modest draft. Still, it would’ve been a lot better than nothing

Even if it's not the 2nd or 3rd pick and ends up the 9th pick...it's a great consolation prize to potentially replace a Derozan or Biyombo if they happen to leave in free agency.

This isn't a knock on Phil, but more admiration for the foresight and expertise Ujiri wields to maintain the status quo for the contending Raptors, and having built in contingency plans if one of their core players leaves.

We haven't had that in Knicksland....since pretty much ever. A Ewing leaves or is traded, there's a huge moon crater sized hole for over a decade. Houston, LJ, and Spree move on....no immediate replacement. It's just musical chairs of Al Harrington's, Jamal Crawford's, Duhon's, Felton's, Bargnani's, Amare/Chandler/Melo type players but no true steady foundation to lay rock on and groom replacements when the stars fade.

Depressing.

Yes, Depressing. How do you change it? Change the thinking? Who was in charge? you underestimate what Dolan was doing over the years and assume the GM is all powerful. Few men can authorize the type of contracts and deals without the owners blessing and then some. Most owners are very involved. Dolan was involved.

So we hire phil to change the thinking. We stopped starphuching. That's a big step.

I can't defend the Bargnani trade and the result, but its always ok to go back and revisit what Bargs was at the time the trade was made, the team make up a the time, and what it might have been projected.

Toronto made a deal that took 3 years to actually pay off. Its called Patience. If phil does not use his cap space this year on a big name media will stir up fans ire.
Today UNcle Chuck is depressed but perhaps one day things will change. It already has, but we don't have the results to prove it.

Nalod - I don't get your protection logic. Couldn't the Knicks have just said Top 10 protected AFTER swap? I mean I think a contract is just a written agreement and they can make it like they want it. It is not just 2 choices or the like. Anyway, I'm wondering who Dolan F'd in Toronto to approve this trade. I get players can get hurt and what not, but trading for Bargs?

Also this is going to be the best 2nd round draft in multi years. If we can get 2-3 picks using cash and futures--we can improve the team

ChuckBuck wrote:This is an alarming pattern though. Not only do we not protect our picks, Pre-Phil Jax, but we offer monster $124Mill contracts with NO TRADE CLAUSE kickers. That in itself, can do MAJOR HARM to a franchise that's supposed to be rebuilding. Melo, though a top 30-40 player still at 32, doesn't make sense to a franchise looking two steps forward and far away from truly competing. His $124Mill baggage could've easily fetched 1 or 2 draft picks, but that's water under the bridge now.

What if the scenario was Melo leave for nothing or Melo stay for $124 with NTC. What would you have done?

ujiri got us 4 first round picks in the next 2 drafts. he's doing aight.

the worst move for you guys wasn't this one - it was for passing on the lowry deal. lowry is a built winner - he wills his teams and puts it all on the court. at the time he had this bad rep with coaches but as you can see, it worked out - and if ujiri got to him, then phil would've also. lowry + melo would've been a very strong 1/2 punch and would've put the knicks in a really good position to make major noise. but phil doesn't like scoring pg's - which is a bit baffling considering the landscape of the nba.

djsunyc wrote:it's a fantastic trade, i don't know what you all are talking about.

ujiri got us 4 first round picks in the next 2 drafts. he's doing aight.

the worst move for you guys wasn't this one - it was for passing on the lowry deal. lowry is a built winner - he wills his teams and puts it all on the court. at the time he had this bad rep with coaches but as you can see, it worked out - and if ujiri got to him, then phil would've also. lowry + melo would've been a very strong 1/2 punch and would've put the knicks in a really good position to make major noise. but phil doesn't like scoring pg's - which is a bit baffling considering the landscape of the nba.

IF we'd got Lowry we wouldn't have got KP. Also if lowry had clashed with Melo he could have walked in the offseason, so essentially we would have given the craptors another first round pick for a rental.