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All this stupid stuff about a new coach
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BRIGGS
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5/11/2016  10:16 AM
Who cares? Unless Popovich or Pat Riley is available---its all retreads. Tyron Lue--never a head coach has the Cavs playing the best ball in the NBA. Steve Kerr never a coach has turned the Warriors into the best team in ages..

It isnt about the coach--its all about the players 1st the system second and then the coach last

Kurt Rambis is fine for now--he probably shouldve been picked over Fischer in the first place. Hire good young assistants who can groom into the position.

RIP Crushalot😞
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crzymdups
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5/11/2016  10:18 AM
You don't think the coach is a selling point in Free Agency? I think coach of the team and the team's vision and strategy is a major selling point. Free agents want to win. They want to know their role in an offense and look good. The coach is a big part of that. Look at Paul George's post about Vogel, for instance.
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Nalod
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5/11/2016  10:21 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/11/2016  10:22 AM
crzymdups wrote:You don't think the coach is a selling point in Free Agency? I think coach of the team and the team's vision and strategy is a major selling point. Free agents want to win. They want to know their role in an offense and look good. The coach is a big part of that. Look at Paul George's post about Vogel, for instance.

since coach's get fired all the time, no, I don't think the coach is that paramount in a free agents decision.
They should just know that we running the triangle, that silly thing that propelled Jordan from being Dominique Wilkens to the GOAT, or Kobe being on track to be McGrady into GOAT 2.0.....
Players should understand that they will need to move more without the ball.

Monroe went to Milwaukee, not to be coached by Jason Kidd.

Knixkik
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5/11/2016  10:25 AM
BRIGGS wrote:Who cares? Unless Popovich or Pat Riley is available---its all retreads. Tyron Lue--never a head coach has the Cavs playing the best ball in the NBA. Steve Kerr never a coach has turned the Warriors into the best team in ages..

It isnt about the coach--its all about the players 1st the system second and then the coach last

Kurt Rambis is fine for now--he probably shouldve been picked over Fischer in the first place. Hire good young assistants who can groom into the position.

Completely agree. Coaching impact is somewhat overrated. Also, definitely should have gone with Rambis first. The fact that he didn't to begin with is what concerns me about him now. You have to wonder why. But players are obviously more important.

mreinman
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5/11/2016  11:19 AM
a coach is less important when you have coach lebron on the floor or coach nash or coach jordan but its crucial if you are coaching flawed (narcissist) stars or developing a young team.
so here is what phil is thinking ....
nixluva
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5/11/2016  12:00 PM
mreinman wrote:a coach is less important when you have coach lebron on the floor or coach nash or coach jordan but its crucial if you are coaching flawed (narcissist) stars or developing a young team.

Some coaches that are great at coaching mature talent are AWFUL at developing young talent. Phil doesn't really like developing young players. He relied on Rambis and others to do that. So it's important to pick the right coach for the job.

The Knicks roster is a mix of young and old but the younger talent is the most important part of the team going forward. Phil has to focus most of his attention on a teaching coach for the younger players which is why he was considering Rambis. Maybe Blatt or Vogel can do that or work with Rambis as an assistant.

crzymdups
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5/11/2016  12:06 PM
Ultimate Knicks dot com - a one act play

Poster 1: "Having a great coach doesn't change anything, it's all about the players! Trust in Phil to get the players!"

Poster 2: "How can you say having a great coach doesn't matter? Why do you trust Phil?"

Poster 1: "Because he was a great coach!"

Poster 2: "But didn't he get to coach some of the greatest players of all-time? Didn't you just say coaches don't matter and it's all about the players!"

Poster 1: "Just let Phil do his job!!!"

Wash, rinse, repeat.

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y2zipper
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5/11/2016  12:09 PM
crzymdups wrote:You don't think the coach is a selling point in Free Agency? I think coach of the team and the team's vision and strategy is a major selling point. Free agents want to win. They want to know their role in an offense and look good. The coach is a big part of that. Look at Paul George's post about Vogel, for instance.

No, it isn't. New York could wait until free agency to make a hire and then give free agents input during recruiting and they still wouldn't come. Selling points are money and years for younger free agents and signing onto a contender for older guys. Guys that are actually worth the max get max offers and typically stay and then you have to overpay to guys like Greg Monroe when free agency hits.

LeBron also went back to Cleveland even though be didn't like Blatt.

nixluva
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5/11/2016  12:14 PM
crzymdups wrote:Ultimate Knicks dot com - a one act play

Poster 1: "Having a great coach doesn't change anything, it's all about the players! Trust in Phil to get the players!"

Poster 2: "How can you say having a great coach doesn't matter? Why do you trust Phil?"

Poster 1: "Because he was a great coach!"

Poster 2: "But didn't he get to coach some of the greatest players of all-time? Didn't you just say coaches don't matter and it's all about the players!"

Poster 1: "Just let Phil do his job!!!"

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Your point is stupid because NO ONE ever said having a GREAT coach doesn't make a difference!!! What we know is that none of the available coaches have won an NBA Title! None are considered GREAT!

arkrud
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5/11/2016  1:23 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/11/2016  1:23 PM
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Ultimate Knicks dot com - a one act play

Poster 1: "Having a great coach doesn't change anything, it's all about the players! Trust in Phil to get the players!"

Poster 2: "How can you say having a great coach doesn't matter? Why do you trust Phil?"

Poster 1: "Because he was a great coach!"

Poster 2: "But didn't he get to coach some of the greatest players of all-time? Didn't you just say coaches don't matter and it's all about the players!"

Poster 1: "Just let Phil do his job!!!"

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Your point is stupid because NO ONE ever said having a GREAT coach doesn't make a difference!!! What we know is that none of the available coaches have won an NBA Title! None are considered GREAT!

Greatness is not a point of time condition.
Greatness is a process of achievement of great results which last in time.
Most of the Great coaches are fixtures of the past including Pat and Phil and only one (Pop) is in the state of greatness now.
The rest of the coaching crowd is searching for this elusive thing and NY is not a place for now for getting closer to it.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
nixluva
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5/11/2016  1:32 PM
arkrud wrote:
nixluva wrote:
crzymdups wrote:Ultimate Knicks dot com - a one act play

Poster 1: "Having a great coach doesn't change anything, it's all about the players! Trust in Phil to get the players!"

Poster 2: "How can you say having a great coach doesn't matter? Why do you trust Phil?"

Poster 1: "Because he was a great coach!"

Poster 2: "But didn't he get to coach some of the greatest players of all-time? Didn't you just say coaches don't matter and it's all about the players!"

Poster 1: "Just let Phil do his job!!!"

Wash, rinse, repeat.

Your point is stupid because NO ONE ever said having a GREAT coach doesn't make a difference!!! What we know is that none of the available coaches have won an NBA Title! None are considered GREAT!

Greatness is not a point of time condition.
Greatness is a process of achievement of great results which last in time.
Most of the Great coaches are fixtures of the past including Pat and Phil and only one (Pop) is in the state of greatness now.
The rest of the coaching crowd is searching for this elusive thing and NY is not a place for now for getting closer to it.


Phil was like Pop and Riley who were considered GREAT while they were still active. It does take time to achieve that level of recognition but it's also clear that all of the coaching prospects we're looking to bring in are still trying to prove what they are. No Title winners as Head Coach are walking into this job.

This roster is one that needs a Teacher and Motivator. We will have a lot of developmental players on the roster.

SupremeCommander
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5/11/2016  2:10 PM
coaching matters. perhaps it is secondary to the talent on the squad but to say it doesn't matter is ridiculous. Washington had just as much if not more talent than some of the playoff teams in the East. Washington stunk because it was unmotivated and the head coach didn't see eye to eye with Ernie... that is just a recent example of why saying getting the right head coach doesn't matter is awful... if you really think that Briggs you shouldn't be worried about Kevin Ollie leaving UConn!!!

all that said I really don't think keeping Rambis matters for this upcoming season because let's face it, the best case scenario for next season is getting crushed in the second round. I actually think it would be a good thing to keep Rambis if it gets Melo to waive his no-trade

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
earthmansurfer
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5/11/2016  3:17 PM
Bring back Rambis, we probably don't strike gold in FA, we have no pick, Lottery here we come!
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
franco12
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5/11/2016  3:54 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:coaching matters. perhaps it is secondary to the talent on the squad but to say it doesn't matter is ridiculous. Washington had just as much if not more talent than some of the playoff teams in the East. Washington stunk because it was unmotivated and the head coach didn't see eye to eye with Ernie... that is just a recent example of why saying getting the right head coach doesn't matter is awful... if you really think that Briggs you shouldn't be worried about Kevin Ollie leaving UConn!!!

all that said I really don't think keeping Rambis matters for this upcoming season because let's face it, the best case scenario for next season is getting crushed in the second round. I actually think it would be a good thing to keep Rambis if it gets Melo to waive his no-trade

Funny - I think our best case is finishing worse than this year and landing a top 5 lottery pick and getting another franchise type talent.

But, realistically, I don't see us making the play offs - and if we did, we're not making it past the first round.

SupremeCommander
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5/11/2016  4:16 PM
franco12 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:coaching matters. perhaps it is secondary to the talent on the squad but to say it doesn't matter is ridiculous. Washington had just as much if not more talent than some of the playoff teams in the East. Washington stunk because it was unmotivated and the head coach didn't see eye to eye with Ernie... that is just a recent example of why saying getting the right head coach doesn't matter is awful... if you really think that Briggs you shouldn't be worried about Kevin Ollie leaving UConn!!!

all that said I really don't think keeping Rambis matters for this upcoming season because let's face it, the best case scenario for next season is getting crushed in the second round. I actually think it would be a good thing to keep Rambis if it gets Melo to waive his no-trade

Funny - I think our best case is finishing worse than this year and landing a top 5 lottery pick and getting another franchise type talent.

But, realistically, I don't see us making the play offs - and if we did, we're not making it past the first round.

While I actually agree with you I just don't think I could stomach the tanking. This team has been absolute trash and I want to see them win at least a game in the first round. Last time the Knicks actually competed and had a pick they lost ping pong balls but the basketball gods gave us KP

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
arkrud
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5/11/2016  4:42 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
franco12 wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:coaching matters. perhaps it is secondary to the talent on the squad but to say it doesn't matter is ridiculous. Washington had just as much if not more talent than some of the playoff teams in the East. Washington stunk because it was unmotivated and the head coach didn't see eye to eye with Ernie... that is just a recent example of why saying getting the right head coach doesn't matter is awful... if you really think that Briggs you shouldn't be worried about Kevin Ollie leaving UConn!!!

all that said I really don't think keeping Rambis matters for this upcoming season because let's face it, the best case scenario for next season is getting crushed in the second round. I actually think it would be a good thing to keep Rambis if it gets Melo to waive his no-trade

Funny - I think our best case is finishing worse than this year and landing a top 5 lottery pick and getting another franchise type talent.

But, realistically, I don't see us making the play offs - and if we did, we're not making it past the first round.

While I actually agree with you I just don't think I could stomach the tanking. This team has been absolute trash and I want to see them win at least a game in the first round. Last time the Knicks actually competed and had a pick they lost ping pong balls but the basketball gods gave us KP

17 wins was some hell of competition...
Competing and have a capacity to win a lot of games is not the same thing.
I think Knicks were competing this season too to get to 32 wins.
This roster with possible minor upgrades and minus Melo cannot win a lot of games in NBA.
Especially if coaching focus will be on the system, culture, and young players development.
If focus will be to win as much as possible at any cost we can get to 40+ and get bounced from first round.
What the point?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
fishmike
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5/12/2016  8:42 AM
depends depends depends... there are really so many factors. The NBA has small rosters, so even more than systems and subs the most important thing is that personalities gel. If you don't like your coach, if you aren't happy at work, your effort is going to suffer. However the same goes for teammates. If you don't like the guys you are playing next to your effort is going to suffer.

What made Phil great as a coach was his ability to get into guy's heads and turn it around onto them. What are YOU going to do to be a better player? A better teammate? That is not an easy thing to do with adults in ANY situation. Blame is easy and it absolves you from having to work and look at yourself.

Doc won coach of the year. Then McGrady quit on him and he got ousted. Then he won a title in Boston. Look how good Woody was here. Then when we replaced Camby, Sheed, Kidd and Novak with Bargs, Woody was the problem. Didn't motivate, nothing but ISO-Melo, bla bla bla

I think its a simple formula. 2 1/2 of these 3 things need to happen for a coach to succeed:
1) You need a talented and reasonably balanced roster
2) You need the backing/support of the front office
3) you need to connect with the players enough that the environment isn't toxic and the guys want to work, learn and have some synergy

Show me ANY coach in the NBA that has a good year and I promise he got 2 of these and half of another. That being said these are always fluid and what works one year may not work the next.

If the Knicks go with Rambis he will have #2. #1 depends on Phil and #3 is my concern, but is also something Phil can help with, especially if he is taking a more hands on approach and has more dialogue with players. Its not a given, but it strikes me as doable.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
knicks1248
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5/12/2016  9:44 AM
earthmansurfer wrote:Bring back Rambis, we probably don't strike gold in FA, we have no pick, Lottery here we come!

Im glad no ones thinking along these lines but you

pay melo 125 mill, phil 60 mill, fisher 5 mill...that's almost 200 mill, not one single playoff game in what would be yr 4..great investment

ES
Vmart
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5/12/2016  9:49 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:Bring back Rambis, we probably don't strike gold in FA, we have no pick, Lottery here we come!

Im glad no ones thinking along these lines but you

pay melo 125 mill, phil 60 mill, fisher 5 mill...that's almost 200 mill, not one single playoff game in what would be yr 4..great investment

I agree with earthmansurfer. We need another tank job unless Phil gets a lottery picks this year if he does then next year will automatically become a rebuilding year and chances increase to be in Lottery again adding another lottery pick to develop.

callmened
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5/12/2016  9:58 AM
BRIGGS wrote:Who cares? Unless Popovich or Pat Riley is available---its all retreads. Tyron Lue--never a head coach has the Cavs playing the best ball in the NBA. Steve Kerr never a coach has turned the Warriors into the best team in ages..

It isnt about the coach--its all about the players 1st the system second and then the coach last

Kurt Rambis is fine for now--he probably shouldve been picked over Fischer in the first place. Hire good young assistants who can groom into the position.

i agree and disagree. i think a coach is "overrated" because its MAINLY about the players. my only concern with the coach is "bad" coaching like rambis. i didnt like this idea of getting KP to play down low and i didnt like how he handled the affalo situation. so yes, while i agree players are more important - if theres a chance to upgrade the phil should upgrade

Knicks should be improved: win about 40 games and maybe sneak into the playoffs. Melo, Rose and even Noah will have some nice moments however this team should be about PORZINGUS. the sooner they make him the primary player, the better
All this stupid stuff about a new coach

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