BRIGGS wrote:

EnySpree wrote:It's the reason why were not in the playoffs. We all know that.

I'm just saying.... can we become successful from within with Grant and Wroten? I'm fully expecting Grant to be a starter next year right out the gate. I also expect Wroten to come back next season with a vengeance. Both guys are 6'5" & 6'6" respectively. Defensively they can compete. Offensively, how can you stop either guy from getting in the paint? Rolo, KP and Melo ate great passing targets.

Do we haverour best 5 already on the roster?
KP, Melo, Rolo, Grant and Wroten? KP has got to get up to 18pts per game next year. Melo should be about 20. Rolo should get about 12. If Grant and Wroten can both get at least 12 per game withgooddefense... how good can we be?

You need guys who can shoot it

Golden state is so diversified so skilled and then they have awesome interior defense. I mean you are taking a 30-5-5 player off the team and they can still blow you away in any given 6 minute stretch.

BRIGGS wrote:

EnySpree wrote:It's the reason why were not in the playoffs. We all know that.

I'm just saying.... can we become successful from within with Grant and Wroten? I'm fully expecting Grant to be a starter next year right out the gate. I also expect Wroten to come back next season with a vengeance. Both guys are 6'5" & 6'6" respectively. Defensively they can compete. Offensively, how can you stop either guy from getting in the paint? Rolo, KP and Melo ate great passing targets.

Do we haverour best 5 already on the roster?
KP, Melo, Rolo, Grant and Wroten? KP has got to get up to 18pts per game next year. Melo should be about 20. Rolo should get about 12. If Grant and Wroten can both get at least 12 per game withgooddefense... how good can we be?

You need guys who can shoot it

Sure they have to hit shots but a lot of what they do is gonna come from breaking down the D and getting to the rim or dishing. Not to mention more fast breaks. I agree with EnySpree on the general idea of going forward with big combo guards.

Free Agency will hopefully give us another dynamic guard. IMO it's THE missing element for this team. Even this year when we got halfway decent guard play the team was competitive. Just imagine a better upgrade at the guard spots next year.

mreinman wrote:grant and wroten .... perfect Eny, keep making fun and getting mad and everyone else ideas

I don't get mad at people's ideas. I get mad at the ignorant stuff that's said here on a daily basis. I love ideas. That's why I'm here.

franco12 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

EnySpree wrote:It's the reason why were not in the playoffs. We all know that.

I'm just saying.... can we become successful from within with Grant and Wroten? I'm fully expecting Grant to be a starter next year right out the gate. I also expect Wroten to come back next season with a vengeance. Both guys are 6'5" & 6'6" respectively. Defensively they can compete. Offensively, how can you stop either guy from getting in the paint? Rolo, KP and Melo ate great passing targets.

Do we haverour best 5 already on the roster?
KP, Melo, Rolo, Grant and Wroten? KP has got to get up to 18pts per game next year. Melo should be about 20. Rolo should get about 12. If Grant and Wroten can both get at least 12 per game withgooddefense... how good can we be?

You need guys who can shoot it

Sure they have to hit shots but a lot of what they do is gonna come from breaking down the D and getting to the rim or dishing. Not to mention more fast breaks. I agree with EnySpree on the general idea of going forward with big combo guards.

Free Agency will hopefully give us another dynamic guard. IMO it's THE missing element for this team. Even this year when we got halfway decent guard play the team was competitive. Just imagine a better upgrade at the guard spots next year.

sadly, the way this plays out is we do upgrade the back court, and end up winning mid to high 30s, ensuring our draft pick is back end of the lottery- good enough for perhaps a solid bench player.

And then we end up stuck there, while KP and the youth get better, our older veterans- Rolo & Melo, continue to get older and produce diminished results.

And in 5 years, we've won nothing, and not added any franchise changing talent.

This guy. He gets it.

Only viable way out of the dark ages is to tank to get KP's Robin to his Batman. He's not on the roster yet.

crzymdups wrote:I like Grant and Wroten - but Briggs is right - we need shooters. The good thing about Grant and Wroten is they can penetrate. But without shooters to spread the floor, the D can sag off those guys in the pick and roll and dare them to shoot.

Its going top be so hard to replicate what GS has. I watched Michigan State all year and that why I loved Valentine and Forbes so much--they play a similar chemistry branded version of Golden State with guys who shoot well over 40% from 3 who move the ball. In fact my whole schmeal about guys who I wanted in the draft and NBA acquisition are all based on Golden State/ San Antonio

Valentine--PG/G version of Dray Green with less D
Forbes-- Poor mans SG version of a back up SG Curry
McCaw--version of Shaun Livingston
Derrick Jones--version of Andre Igudola
Daniel Ochefu--version of Fetsus Ezeli

Pros

Seth Curry--version of Steph Curry
Gasol--triangle master better version of Bogut
Bazemore--better version of Branden Rush

Were not winning big next year--I mean we can win but it takes time in the NBA to get real good. Look at really good teams chemistry--that takes atleast two years to build up.

ChuckBuck wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

franco12 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

EnySpree wrote:It's the reason why were not in the playoffs. We all know that.

I'm just saying.... can we become successful from within with Grant and Wroten? I'm fully expecting Grant to be a starter next year right out the gate. I also expect Wroten to come back next season with a vengeance. Both guys are 6'5" & 6'6" respectively. Defensively they can compete. Offensively, how can you stop either guy from getting in the paint? Rolo, KP and Melo ate great passing targets.

Do we haverour best 5 already on the roster?
KP, Melo, Rolo, Grant and Wroten? KP has got to get up to 18pts per game next year. Melo should be about 20. Rolo should get about 12. If Grant and Wroten can both get at least 12 per game withgooddefense... how good can we be?

You need guys who can shoot it

Sure they have to hit shots but a lot of what they do is gonna come from breaking down the D and getting to the rim or dishing. Not to mention more fast breaks. I agree with EnySpree on the general idea of going forward with big combo guards.

Free Agency will hopefully give us another dynamic guard. IMO it's THE missing element for this team. Even this year when we got halfway decent guard play the team was competitive. Just imagine a better upgrade at the guard spots next year.

sadly, the way this plays out is we do upgrade the back court, and end up winning mid to high 30s, ensuring our draft pick is back end of the lottery- good enough for perhaps a solid bench player.

And then we end up stuck there, while KP and the youth get better, our older veterans- Rolo & Melo, continue to get older and produce diminished results.

And in 5 years, we've won nothing, and not added any franchise changing talent.

This guy. He gets it.

Only viable way out of the dark ages is to tank to get KP's Robin to his Batman. He's not on the roster yet.

Tank again? You sure this fan base cab handle that. Phil tanked his first year to get KP. Reading this forum or comments all over the Internet you would think Phil Jackson was Mr. MAGOO

You already know whichever band-aid free agent the Knicks sign will add maybe 3 or 4 wins tops to this years 32. It will max out at 40-42 wins, while Melo enters years 32-35, and the rest of the cast diminishes. KP will survive all of them hopefully, because he is only 20.

Think ahead for once. We ain't winning shyt in the next 3 to 5 years, we need to cement Porzingis prime with a running mate. A 2017 draft pick in the teens or later won't do that.

Eny - completely different if we had this years pick. Rebuilding is like shooting a moving target - you have to lead your aim.

Will the fan base support this? Abso****inglutely - if they see that the FO & ownership are actually trying to build something.

We got a big time tease this year when we were 500.

Sure, cap room maybe allows us to dream - kinda like I do when I buy my lottery tickets. But I wake up every day having to go to work with a suck ass job.

I'd say tank this season, big, Don't waste any cap money with long term/big contracts on anyone over the age of 26.

2016-2017 is our last throw away year.

2017-2018 is when we start trying to win in earnest.

I think if James Dolan came out, gave a press conference and swore on a stack of bibles that he would never trade a first round draft pick again, we could get behind this.

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I like Grant and Wroten - but Briggs is right - we need shooters. The good thing about Grant and Wroten is they can penetrate. But without shooters to spread the floor, the D can sag off those guys in the pick and roll and dare them to shoot.

Its going top be so hard to replicate what GS has. I watched Michigan State all year and that why I loved Valentine and Forbes so much--they play a similar chemistry branded version of Golden State with guys who shoot well over 40% from 3 who move the ball. In fact my whole schmeal about guys who I wanted in the draft and NBA acquisition are all based on Golden State/ San Antonio

Valentine--PG/G version of Dray Green with less D
Forbes-- Poor mans SG version of a back up SG Curry
McCaw--version of Shaun Livingston
Derrick Jones--version of Andre Igudola
Daniel Ochefu--version of Fetsus Ezeli

Pros

Seth Curry--version of Steph Curry
Gasol--triangle master better version of Bogut
Bazemore--better version of Branden Rush

Were not winning big next year--I mean we can win but it takes time in the NBA to get real good. Look at really good teams chemistry--that takes atleast two years to build up.

That's true.

The more I think about it, the more okay I am with getting some young guards and building up their skillset and hoping they can mature on the floor alongside Grant and KP. It'd be nice to find the next CJ McCollum.

We have the 2017 draft pick with no restrictions - if we miss the playoffs next year, having a lotto pick is not the worst thing in the world.

I don't necessarily agree with trying to recreate what the Warriors have - I'm more in the camp of trying to get the best talent, with an eye toward creating a team of complementary, functional parts.

Yeah its more the diversity in the guards I seek than emulating GS. Something like San antonio GS---we have the bigs but the NBA is built now on guard play that fits in with it. I understand what Phil is doing he wants to build chemistry to--thats why i never say Phil stinks.(although I question the reliance on Calderon and just a few other things--but I get it)

We have the worst overall backcourt in the league right now. I'm hoping Phil can upgrade it substantially. We'll see in a few months. I agree he's trying to build chemistry and I think it is good that the overall vibe of the team is positive. We'll see what he can do this summer.

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I like Grant and Wroten - but Briggs is right - we need shooters. The good thing about Grant and Wroten is they can penetrate. But without shooters to spread the floor, the D can sag off those guys in the pick and roll and dare them to shoot.

Its going top be so hard to replicate what GS has. I watched Michigan State all year and that why I loved Valentine and Forbes so much--they play a similar chemistry branded version of Golden State with guys who shoot well over 40% from 3 who move the ball. In fact my whole schmeal about guys who I wanted in the draft and NBA acquisition are all based on Golden State/ San Antonio

Valentine--PG/G version of Dray Green with less D
Forbes-- Poor mans SG version of a back up SG Curry
McCaw--version of Shaun Livingston
Derrick Jones--version of Andre Igudola
Daniel Ochefu--version of Fetsus Ezeli

Pros

Seth Curry--version of Steph Curry
Gasol--triangle master better version of Bogut
Bazemore--better version of Branden Rush

Were not winning big next year--I mean we can win but it takes time in the NBA to get real good. Look at really good teams chemistry--that takes atleast two years to build up.

That's true.

The more I think about it, the more okay I am with getting some young guards and building up their skillset and hoping they can mature on the floor alongside Grant and KP. It'd be nice to find the next CJ McCollum.

We have the 2017 draft pick with no restrictions - if we miss the playoffs next year, having a lotto pick is not the worst thing in the world.

I don't necessarily agree with trying to recreate what the Warriors have - I'm more in the camp of trying to get the best talent, with an eye toward creating a team of complementary, functional parts.

Yeah its more the diversity in the guards I seek than emulating GS. Something like San antonio GS---we have the bigs but the NBA is built now on guard play that fits in with it. I understand what Phil is doing he wants to build chemistry to--thats why i never say Phil stinks.(although I question the reliance on Calderon and just a few other things--but I get it)

We have the worst overall backcourt in the league right now. I'm hoping Phil can upgrade it substantially. We'll see in a few months. I agree he's trying to build chemistry and I think it is good that the overall vibe of the team is positive. We'll see what he can do this summer.

It will be impossible to upgrade it to the level we need for atleast two years.