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Perspective: MJ biographer, Bulls and Lakers reporter Roland Lazenby tweeting interesting stuff about Phil
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crzymdups
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5/2/2016  10:34 AM
This guy is a good follow on twitter, has interesting and deep perspective on Triangle:



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nyk4ever
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5/2/2016  10:43 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/2/2016  10:45 AM
very interesting stuff and alot of it is stuff i've been saying, although i will say it's pretty obvious that this guy really likes phil, so his view might be a little slanted. i couldn't care less about the triangle itself, it's a system, just like any other system. what i DO care about is that we have a leader in our organization that says this is how things are going to be done and he sticks to his plan. i think having a system (whatever system it is) is the most important thing and then secondly to that is actually sticking with the system.

i think the most interesting tweet he had was talking about phils involvement on the coaching end. it'd be great to see/hear more of phil on the court in practices and whatever. rambis knows x's and o's, so i guess he's passable as a coach (he wouldn't be my choice but whatever phil wants), as long as phil is the one truly calling the shots.

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dk7th
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5/2/2016  10:56 AM
crzymdups wrote:This guy is a good follow on twitter, has interesting and deep perspective on Triangle:



Pretty much what I have been saying: no half measures and you need talent before tweaking.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
crzymdups
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5/2/2016  10:59 AM
nyk4ever wrote:very interesting stuff and alot of it is stuff i've been saying, although i will say it's pretty obvious that this guy really likes phil, so his view might be a little slanted. i couldn't care less about the triangle itself, it's a system, just like any other system. what i DO care about is that we have a leader in our organization that says this is how things are going to be done and he sticks to his plan. i think having a system (whatever system it is) is the most important thing and then secondly to that is actually sticking with the system.

i think the most interesting tweet he had was talking about phils involvement on the coaching end. it'd be great to see/hear more of phil on the court in practices and whatever. rambis knows x's and o's, so i guess he's passable as a coach (he wouldn't be my choice but whatever phil wants), as long as phil is the one truly calling the shots.

Yeah, I agree he's biased and I don't agree with all of it...

But this is a guy who has reported on Phil for 25 years and written books about MJ and Phil, so he certainly knows the topic... possibly as well as anyone else not named Phil.

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nixluva
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5/2/2016  11:15 AM
The key is not the Triangle. The key is that Phil knows how to win using the Triangle and how his team needs to be constructed in order to win playing in the Triangle. He's building the Knicks in that direction because it's what he knows best.

He can't magically create the roster he needs but he's diligently putting the pieces together. It requires some patience but some fans and the Media don't have any patience. IMO this is better than repeating the same things we've done in the past. There's a logic to it and he's not gonna do irreparable harm to the franchise like we've been thru before.
mreinman
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5/2/2016  11:22 AM
he says that you can't do it half way or partial. So what is GS and SA doing?
so here is what phil is thinking ....
fishmike
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5/2/2016  11:23 AM
crzymdups those are great quotes and paint a clearer picture of what is happening. Not because they are pro-Phil or backup anyone's agenda, I just think they offer some clarity to the thought process. Its not a given that Phil succeeds. Its all moot without the players, but if they can get some then its game on. Really all of this hinges on the the hardest thing to do in the NBA: go get talent.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
mreinman
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5/2/2016  11:25 AM
fishmike wrote:crzymdups those are great quotes and paint a clearer picture of what is happening. Not because they are pro-Phil or backup anyone's agenda, I just think they offer some clarity to the thought process. Its not a given that Phil succeeds. Its all moot without the players, but if they can get some then its game on. Really all of this hinges on the the hardest thing to do in the NBA: go get talent.

are they great cause you like his slant?

so here is what phil is thinking ....
crzymdups
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5/2/2016  11:26 AM
mreinman wrote:he says that you can't do it half way or partial. So what is GS and SA doing?

Fair point. I'd be curious to see what this guy thought about GSW and the Triangle.

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crzymdups
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5/2/2016  11:29 AM
fishmike wrote:crzymdups those are great quotes and paint a clearer picture of what is happening. Not because they are pro-Phil or backup anyone's agenda, I just think they offer some clarity to the thought process. Its not a given that Phil succeeds. Its all moot without the players, but if they can get some then its game on. Really all of this hinges on the the hardest thing to do in the NBA: go get talent.

Yeah, going by this guy it seems like Rambis will be the coach. I understand this logic though. Better than the way Phil has been selling it.

We all know it'll come down to players.

A thought I've been having more and more is that Phil might actually want to get another top 5 pick in 2017. If he really is in it for the long haul, it's probably the best way to build up the talent base on this team.

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nixluva
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5/2/2016  11:35 AM
mreinman wrote:he says that you can't do it half way or partial. So what is GS and SA doing?

That's what you decide to key on? When the Spurs or Bulls actually used Triangle they executed at a high level. There are videos demonstrating this and I've tried to show you but you always scoffed at it rather than pay attention to any of it.

GS isn't running Triangle. Stuff they do may be partially inspired by the principles but in actual practice they aren't using the Triangle.

Although the better focus on the Triangle is important, the roster improvements are very important.
No system is magic. If you don't have talent no amount of proper spacing and execution is going to save you. Phil knows this.
martin
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5/2/2016  11:37 AM
crzymdups wrote:This guy is a good follow on twitter, has interesting and deep perspective on Triangle:

awesome post man, thanks for the heads up.

This is my fav one and pretty much where I am at. I love what Riley, Pop and Phil do when they are at their best. Phil is in NY and I'll take the Triangle, learn it, and hope for a Championship.

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martin
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5/2/2016  11:38 AM
mreinman wrote:he says that you can't do it half way or partial. So what is GS and SA doing?

Is this a real question from you? I man, for real? This is your vision of how things work and/or don't work?

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fishmike
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5/2/2016  11:40 AM
mreinman wrote:he says that you can't do it half way or partial. So what is GS and SA doing?
really? GS and SA are running THEIR system. Does Pop deviate from his system? Does Pop half coach it? Does Pop say if your struggling lets just forget it and run a 2man P&R because that was easy for you in college? No.. Pop and SA run THEIR offense THEIR way. Phil Jackson wants to run the system the way he wants it run, not half, not with this wrinkle or that, his way. When you win 11 rings aren't you entitled to go with what works?. Is that so hard to grasp?
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nyk4ever
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5/2/2016  11:51 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/2/2016  11:54 AM
fishmike wrote:
mreinman wrote:he says that you can't do it half way or partial. So what is GS and SA doing?
really? GS and SA are running THEIR system. Does Pop deviate from his system? Does Pop half coach it? Does Pop say if your struggling lets just forget it and run a 2man P&R because that was easy for you in college? No.. Pop and SA run THEIR offense THEIR way. Phil Jackson wants to run the system the way he wants it run, not half, not with this wrinkle or that, his way. When you win 11 rings aren't you entitled to go with what works?. Is that so hard to grasp?

apparently it is for some. i couldn't have said it better, fish. phil wants to run it HIS way, the same way kerr and pop are running it THEIR way. who knows if phil will be successful, quite frankly, i'm just happy there is someone running the organization with a vision and a plan to put that vision on the court. end of story.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
mreinman
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5/2/2016  11:53 AM
fishmike wrote:
mreinman wrote:he says that you can't do it half way or partial. So what is GS and SA doing?
really? GS and SA are running THEIR system. Does Pop deviate from his system? Does Pop half coach it? Does Pop say if your struggling lets just forget it and run a 2man P&R because that was easy for you in college? No.. Pop and SA run THEIR offense THEIR way. Phil Jackson wants to run the system the way he wants it run, not half, not with this wrinkle or that, his way. When you win 11 rings aren't you entitled to go with what works?. Is that so hard to grasp?

pop runs it his way but its forever evolving and continuously modified based on personnel. As I've said, pop does not have a "system". He has POP's way of running things. Perhaps if he ran the triangle he would have more rings? Perhaps

What is Riley's offense? Nobody knows because there isn't one. Its like saying what language do you code in? Answer: the one that is the most appropriate for this specific business/use case.

I can understand people who defend phil and why he should be defended, yet people can't believe that so many out there have issues with him and the system.

Like it or not, phil has a lot to prove here (even though he has his 11 COACHING rings) and he is dead set on doing it. The pressure is on him and he needs to put up. All the defense in the world will not help him if we don't make a significant move forward this year.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
anrst
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5/2/2016  11:57 AM
the bulls and lakers weren't 100% triangle all in no filtering.

When it was time to win the game and stop messing around, they threw the system away and let four of the greatest players of all time win the game.

Phil looks at his tenure with the Knicks as a proving ground for his system. MEanwhile, the rest of us just want to win.
crzymdups
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5/2/2016  11:59 AM
anrst wrote:the bulls and lakers weren't 100% triangle all in no filtering.

When it was time to win the game and stop messing around, they threw the system away and let four of the greatest players of all time win the game.

Phil looks at his tenure with the Knicks as a proving ground for his system. MEanwhile, the rest of us just want to win.

Yes, I agree with this.

The writer I quoted above also made a good point that Phil had a tendency to rub it in and it is hard for many people around the league to separate the Triangle from Phil's massive ego. I would say it's even harder for Phil to separate the Triangle from his ego. They are linked.

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fishmike
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5/2/2016  12:06 PM
mreinman wrote:
fishmike wrote:
mreinman wrote:he says that you can't do it half way or partial. So what is GS and SA doing?
really? GS and SA are running THEIR system. Does Pop deviate from his system? Does Pop half coach it? Does Pop say if your struggling lets just forget it and run a 2man P&R because that was easy for you in college? No.. Pop and SA run THEIR offense THEIR way. Phil Jackson wants to run the system the way he wants it run, not half, not with this wrinkle or that, his way. When you win 11 rings aren't you entitled to go with what works?. Is that so hard to grasp?

pop runs it his way but its forever evolving and continuously modified based on personnel. As I've said, pop does not have a "system". He has POP's way of running things. Perhaps if he ran the triangle he would have more rings? Perhaps

What is Riley's offense? Nobody knows because there isn't one. Its like saying what language do you code in? Answer: the one that is the most appropriate for this specific business/use case.

I can understand people who defend phil and why he should be defended, yet people can't believe that so many out there have issues with him and the system.

Like it or not, phil has a lot to prove here (even though he has his 11 COACHING rings) and he is dead set on doing it. The pressure is on him and he needs to put up. All the defense in the world will not help him if we don't make a significant move forward this year.

why do you say "but"

Its been well documented the Phil ran it differently as his personnel changed.

I 100% agree Phil has a lot to prove here. Do GMs ever retire? No... they usually start jobs that have been vacated because someone has been fired, so literally every new GM has something to prove. Phil has yet to prove he can built a team and transform the Knicks from a circus show to a BB org with "culture." What Phil doesn't have to prove (the 11 COACHING rings already PROVE that) is that the triangle works. That is a fixation with media and people on this board. I you yourself may have mentioned it once or twice.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
franco12
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5/2/2016  1:05 PM
nyk4ever wrote:
fishmike wrote:
mreinman wrote:he says that you can't do it half way or partial. So what is GS and SA doing?
really? GS and SA are running THEIR system. Does Pop deviate from his system? Does Pop half coach it? Does Pop say if your struggling lets just forget it and run a 2man P&R because that was easy for you in college? No.. Pop and SA run THEIR offense THEIR way. Phil Jackson wants to run the system the way he wants it run, not half, not with this wrinkle or that, his way. When you win 11 rings aren't you entitled to go with what works?. Is that so hard to grasp?

apparently it is for some. i couldn't have said it better, fish. phil wants to run it HIS way, the same way kerr and pop are running it THEIR way. who knows if phil will be successful, quite frankly, i'm just happy there is someone running the organization with a vision and a plan to put that vision on the court. end of story.

Kerr & Pop are the coaches. Phil is the GM, not the coach.

Do the GMs in GS & SA tell Kerr & Pop what to run?

Yes, they are on the same page with how they want to do things, but I just have an uneasy feeling about how Phil is approaching this.
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