nixluva wrote:As weak as the guards were this year I still think this team could've been .500 with better health from MELO and LT. Also if Jerian had a gotten going earlier. But that's debatable. I agree this team with modest moves as you suggest could get above .500. I'm not so hot for Kevin Martin tho. I think Phil can do better than that. But this team with some internal growth, continuity and a couple of additions can be an above .500 team.

I agree. Fisher and the Melo injury really sent this team into a tailspin and, I reluctantly have to agree with a Reggie Miller quip that once the team got to 22-22 or so they started to float instead of work harder. By the time Rambis took over the fate of the season had been sealed. I don't see Kevin Martin on the Knicks - just my gut. And I'm not sure Grant ever did get going - he was a bit of a mess when he played and his late statistically satisfying games still left much to be desired - I think he shows up this summer and next season a different and much better player.

Gallo is another worker bee who will be even better after the summer. He's going to be a rotation player for a long time. Too early to gauge Wroten. We have the pieces to be a better than .500 team now. Next year the rubber will meet the road.

callmened wrote:

Malcolm wrote:What would I consider to be "failure" by Phil Jackson at the end of next season (?)

Leaving catastrophic injuries aside . . . I would expect Knicks to be at least at .500
and within a game or two of a playoff spot.

Anything else would be unacceptable.

The changes that are needed to achieve that should be well within our expectations
of what Jackson can do and how team should progress:

** Lopez (C) (17.7)
** Porzingis (PF) (17.8)
** Anthony (SF) (20.4)

. . . should all be 18.0 plus PER starters in Triangle by next year.

That's a helluva core to start with.

** Derrick Williams (17.3) or Hernangomez will be bench PF.

** Calderon is an acceptable bench PG.
** Vujacic is an acceptable bench SG in the Triangle.
** Thomas is acceptable as bench SF

So what's left (?)

** get Pau Gasol (21.8) as 6th man center. Make this work. He's worth the money, he's
available, he's Triangle ready, and Jackson should pull him in.

** either Grant or Wroten has to come through at a 15.0 PER level

** get an older, established shooting guard. Jackson tried for Kevin Martin in February
and that is the type of guy we need and can afford.

8/9 man rotation:

** Lopez (C) (17.7)
** Porzingis (PF) (17.8)
** Anthony (SF) (20.4)
** Grant/Wroten
** Martin or equivalent

** Gasol (21.8)
** Williams (17.3) or Hernangomez (PF)
** Thomas

Why isn't this a .500 and playoff team (?)

Why is that expecting too much (?)

yes i think its expecting too much because phil hasnt acquired gasol or martin (yet). we dont know what free agents will or can be signed

now lets say this team does win 42-45 wins...now what? first round exit? what would be next? what would be the ceiling?

ive said this before on several posts - the team wont get better until it drafts better and gets younger assets. adding old men like martin and gasol (for example - since those were your examples) wouldnt prove much.i think the focus should be on development - even if that means another subpar season. in fact i wouldnt mind another lottery pick since next yrs draft will be STACKED. i advise patience, saving money, spend on cheap mediocre free agents - but most of all develop KPorzingus.

callmened wrote:

Malcolm wrote:What would I consider to be "failure" by Phil Jackson at the end of next season (?)

Leaving catastrophic injuries aside . . . I would expect Knicks to be at least at .500
and within a game or two of a playoff spot.

Anything else would be unacceptable.

The changes that are needed to achieve that should be well within our expectations
of what Jackson can do and how team should progress:

** Lopez (C) (17.7)
** Porzingis (PF) (17.8)
** Anthony (SF) (20.4)

. . . should all be 18.0 plus PER starters in Triangle by next year.

That's a helluva core to start with.

** Derrick Williams (17.3) or Hernangomez will be bench PF.

** Calderon is an acceptable bench PG.
** Vujacic is an acceptable bench SG in the Triangle.
** Thomas is acceptable as bench SF

So what's left (?)

** get Pau Gasol (21.8) as 6th man center. Make this work. He's worth the money, he's
available, he's Triangle ready, and Jackson should pull him in.

** either Grant or Wroten has to come through at a 15.0 PER level

** get an older, established shooting guard. Jackson tried for Kevin Martin in February
and that is the type of guy we need and can afford.

8/9 man rotation:

** Lopez (C) (17.7)
** Porzingis (PF) (17.8)
** Anthony (SF) (20.4)
** Grant/Wroten
** Martin or equivalent

** Gasol (21.8)
** Williams (17.3) or Hernangomez (PF)
** Thomas

Why isn't this a .500 and playoff team (?)

Why is that expecting too much (?)

yes i think its expecting too much because phil hasnt acquired gasol or martin (yet). we dont know what free agents will or can be signed

now lets say this team does win 42-45 wins...now what? first round exit? what would be next? what would be the ceiling?

ive said this before on several posts - the team wont get better until it drafts better and gets younger assets. adding old men like martin and gasol (for example - since those were your examples) wouldnt prove much.i think the focus should be on development - even if that means another subpar season. in fact i wouldnt mind another lottery pick since next yrs draft will be STACKED. i advise patience, saving money, spend on cheap mediocre free agents - but most of all develop KPorzingus.

Depends on how we won 41 games with. If we won 41 games with KP, Grant, Wroten, Willie being major contributors then we would be on to something. KP and Grant if they helped win 41 games then it would be possible in there 3rd yr as they improve, they could help win 50 games. Winning 41 games also makes you more attractive to FAs like Hayward and Oladipo. There are also a lot of good players that have been around that range in the draft.

Knicks need more players like me......

2 way players who can score......The more we have, the better we'll become, and the chances of making the playoffs will be higher.

KP is an example of a 2 way player, who can score.....Melo has become a 2 way player as well, and we know he can score.

Grant is also fitting into that mold, as his jumper starts to improve. LT is another example of a scoring 2 way player.

Its not hard to find guys like this to fill up your roster.

Specialist like Calderson and AA are great additions for a championship team off the bench....Not as a starter on a team that lacks 2-way talent!

Nalod wrote:We can get to 41 with a starphuch, thats not the problem. The problem is when you do that we put a ceiling on whats after that. This is the problem the knicks keep running into. Fans and media pressure get to Dolan and he starphucks. Phil was a starphuck hire as well. In fact, fans were ready to protest the very day he was hired.

Now, its not like Dolan just hired him out of the blue, it took 4 months of courtship.
Like the 54 game winning season, you can get there, but there has to depth, veteran presence and yoots.
Phil tore it down. Forget why, for get how, just have some faith that it happened was the sign things are different.
Correlation to pre phil decision making is not relevant if we stick to a plan. Might not like the timetable on the plan, but thats how things get done.
Bottom line is talent must continue to be developed and obtained. Rambis is not the problem at the moment, its talent. Rambis might be a bridge type coach and perhaps at the right time Rambis has either a firm hold on the team or he gets kicked upstairs and the next guy takes them higher.
I don't know the Map to a championship, but no championship has ever been won with a team in need of talent.

That has been one of the main issues with this org. That we change plans and directions way to often.

Real Knicks fans would clamor for .200 or less with no major signings so we tank properly get a top 5 pick and can make a realistic run at Russell Westbrook next summer.