Finestrg wrote:Still like this 15-man for next yr:

5 - Lopez
4 - Porzingis
3 - Melo
2 - PJ Hairston
1 - Jerryd Bayless
---------------------
4/5 - Willy Hernangomez
3/4 - Derrick Williams
3/2 - Solomon Hill
2/1 - Tony Wroten
1 - One of the following: Yogi Ferrell, Kay Felder, Marcus Paige, Corey Walden
---------------------
5 - Jordan Bachynski
4 - O'Quinn
2 - Terrico White
1 - Grant
1 - Calderon

Hairston: 4 yrs/$13.32mm ($3.33mm)
Bayless: 4 yrs/$30mm ($7.5mm)
Hernangomez: 3 yrs/$10mm ($3.33mm)
D-Will: 4 yrs/$24mm ($6mm)
Solomon Hill: 4 yrs/$13.32mm ($3.33mm)

Above 5 FAs: $23.49/yr average but I think we could structure it all so everyone takes slightly less in yr 1 to get in around $19-20mm (I could be over a little too--Bayless might come for less than $7.5 per, D-Will may select to opt in for only the $5mm, etc..)... We keep Calderon and he just comes off regularly the following season w/o stretching... Unless it's KD or DeRozan, just concentrating on building up the supporting cast for next year focusing on guys that fill needs and can grow together. A bit of a leap of faith but my gut on Bayless: young vet who's too talented to remain a backup. I think we could get some nice production out of him if we up his usage--I'd look to grab this dude cheap and give him the green light in the lead guard role. Overall guard play = younger, much improved outside shooting, much improved penetration/transition speed...Solomon Hill's younger and a more versatile/better overall player than Lance Thomas. He'd inherit LT's mins. and could also see mins. at the 2 (Indy may want him back--I might up the offer from 4 yrs/13.32 and maybe even offer a starting 2G role in order to get him). Looking for Hernangomez to play the same role Enes Kanter is playing for OKC...If we're unable to get a 2nd rounder, I really like Corey Walden from the DL as a backup PG. He's better than Galloway--also known for his defense only this dude has a tighter handle, he's probably a better shooter and he's a better penetrator/finisher. Walden's one of the best kept secrets out there imo... Bachynski would provide legit C size and shot-blocking for the minimum. Another minimum signing, Terrico White, had a very good year in the DL. I think he's an NBA SG. His jumper's much improved--deadly from mid range and shot over 42% from 3. Can also put it on the floor and he's got excellent strength, athleticism, transition speed/finishing ability. He'd supply great depth at wing and I could see him pushing guys ahead of him for mins. in this scenario (Hairston, Wroten, maybe Hill, etc.)...Glad to see Grant's playing better--may actually be a rotation player now although I still need to see more...Giving O'Quinn away to open up even more cap room is an option.

Fine--I think the main theme of what I keep looking at in free agency is how do we sneak more in for less. I dont want to pay anyone 18-22mm $ other than Derozan who is not coming. We need a high quality back up big man who can play 25 minutes--who can also step in in case guys get hurt--why not Pau Gasol--give him the same exact deal he got in Chicago 2 years 14mm.

Then pay secondary shooters Bazemore 8mm per for 4 years and Crawford 2 years 7mm per. That gives us much more reliable firepower. Lastly instead of paying a PG like Rondo who cant shoot or Conley who is an injury away from being done--why dont we use organic growth(Grant and Wroten) and pay up for one of the better players the last 6-8 weeks--Seth Curry--he does everything you want in the triangle for much less. He leads the NBA is % 3 point shooting going on almost 2 months. With Collison and Rondo--he hasnt had the PT to really show the PG skills but last night Im highly convinced that hes a great PG as well. It was one of the best passing games Ive seen in awhile and I think he can get better.

The only thing I dont like abut mine is I dont want Derrick Williams AND Lance Thomas on the same unit. I think in some ways--same player

nyknickzingis wrote:Pau Gasol is a player I've often thought would make so much sense. He knows Phil, he knows the Triangle, maybe was one of the best players in that offense outside of Pippen. Jordan and Kobe were great scorers in any offense who needed the Triangle to play within a team concept. Pippen and Gasol were just on a different level when they played in the Triangle. Has all the skills we need and often don't get with RoLo. Can pass out of the high or low post. Creates his own shot very well in the post. Can step out and hit the jumper from the perimeter. I love RoLo's motor and he has improved as a player this season. Would he accept a come off the bench role?

The thing is what happens with RoLo? And how good a fit is Gasol/Porzingis/Melo defensively? Even slower than RoLo/Porzingis/Melo. No way you're getting an all-star for 7 million a year on his last contract in the league on a 32 win team. No matter how much he may like Phil, Jose and all that, no way. I think to sign Pau, at minimum if he decides to give us a bargain, it'll be 24M$/2 years. I can definitely live with that risk, since he is a character guy. I think signing Pau would mean the end of D-Will's time as a Knick if he opts out. You then look at players who are willing to sign for a year, leaving you capspace for 2017. If Lance Thomas is willing to sign for 4M$ a year which isn't a big cap hit for 2017-18, maybe they keep him.

Perhaps Pau Gasol $24M (2 years), Courtney Lee $15M (3 years), Lance Thomas $16M (4 years), Vujacic Vet min+ 10%raise.

Rotation:
Gasol/Lopez
Porzingis/O'Quinn (Melo gets some time at 4)
Melo/Thomas
Lee/Vujacic/Wroten
Calderon/Grant

Rough math on 2017 cap situation

Gasol 12
Porzingis 4.5
Melo 26
Lee 5
Grant 1.7
RoLo 14
Thomas 4
O'Quinn 4
-----------
70$M roughly. Giving Knicks a full max slot to try and recruit Curry, Westbrook, Paul or, Hayward.

AA is making $8 this year, I don't think there is any way Lee is coming over for $5 per. His starting is $8+ on a 4 year deal at a minimum. You are competing with Cha Hornets, who have done well with him in their lineup.

BRIGGS wrote:Paul Gasol 2 years 14mm(7mm)
Kent Bazemore 4 years 32 (7.5mm)
Jamal Crawford 2 years 15 mm (7mm)
Seth Curry 3 years 13.5mm (4.5mm)
Lance Thomas 2 years (2.5mm)

Line up

C Lopez
F KP
F Carmelo
G Bazemore
G Grant or Curry

C Gasol
F Thomas
F D Williams
G Jamal Crawford
G Grant or Curry

Wroten
Oquinn
Willy G

You are REALLY LOW on the average annual values you are giving guys. I'd say Gasol gets at least $12M per year and Bazemore $15M is the floor --- CRAZY MONEY!!! Crawford you might be HIGH, same for Seth Curry and I think you are LOW on Lance #s.

BRIGGS wrote:Paul Gasol 2 years 14mm(7mm)
Kent Bazemore 4 years 32 (7.5mm)
Jamal Crawford 2 years 15 mm (7mm)
Seth Curry 3 years 13.5mm (4.5mm)
Lance Thomas 2 years (2.5mm)

Line up

C Lopez
F KP
F Carmelo
G Bazemore
G Grant or Curry

C Gasol
F Thomas
F D Williams
G Jamal Crawford
G Grant or Curry

Wroten
Oquinn
Willy G

I would do this - though I think Gasol, Bazemore, Crawford all get more $$$ and we could probably only sign two of those guys.

I'd rather sign Courtney Lee than Bazemore or Crawford anyway. And I think you could get him cheaper.

I think DLee might be a cheaper option than Gasol and possibly more attainable. Though if Gasol would come here, that'd be awesome. I would sign up in a second.

We stretch Calderon, lose Afflalo, we should have around $35M in cap room

What about:

David Lee 2yrs $12M (6) or Gasol 2yr $20M (10)
Courtney Lee 2yrs $21M (10)
Seth Curry 3yrs $23M (7 with raises) - you really want to steal him? need to overpay, remember KOQ is getting $4M per - if we can't get Seth Curry, I'd be in favor of chasing Brandon Jennings for a similar deal.
DWill 2yr $12M (6)
Lance Thomas 2yr $12M (6) - we risk losing him if we under pay and he's hugely important - my understanding on Lance is that we can go over the cap to pay him up to $6M per year because we have his Bird rights. Same with Galloway, if we want him back.

Cheap deals:
Wroten
Willy

Lineup:

PG - Grant / Curry / Wroten
SG - C. Lee / Curry / Wroten
SF - Melo / Lance
PF - KP / DWill
C - Rolo / DLee or Gasol / Hernangomez

crzymdups wrote:What should scare us all is that there are 20 or so teams out there with at least $20M in cap room.

EXACTLY

callmened wrote:i cant wait until july 1st comes around. so that folks will see that average starters like bazemore will get starting salaries of 12mill. lol

Yeah, the cap is essentially doubling from when it was 50-60M. So guys we think of as $5-6M guys will definitely be getting 10-12M. Some teams will make crazy over pays to give a guy like Bazemore $15M per year and we'll all be outraged.

And that will be the fuel for the 2017 lockout. Which I hope doesn't last too long.

Paris907 wrote:I agree that the #s are low. I like Bazemore and Lee. Unfortunately we don't know what we're getting with Wroten. Phil would like Pau and "his" coach and he'd like Mambo too but fact is that's yesterday and we are dealing with getting a lot done in 2 seasons. If Rose and Noah and Portis are a trade that Melo would buy for Calderon and Melo would we pull that off? Rose has a year left and so does Noah. If Batum or Fournier are feasible that would leave us:
Rose Grant Wroten Batum Sasha
KP Portis Williams Thomas
WillyG Lopez OQuinn Noah

If neither Rose nor Noah resign, then 2017 is a fertile year.

Rose and Noah are walking ambulatory care patients. Better to keep Melo as the only sure thing in this trade. I do like Portis, but no.

BRIGGS wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Still like this 15-man for next yr:

5 - Lopez
4 - Porzingis
3 - Melo
2 - PJ Hairston
1 - Jerryd Bayless
---------------------
4/5 - Willy Hernangomez
3/4 - Derrick Williams
3/2 - Solomon Hill
2/1 - Tony Wroten
1 - One of the following: Yogi Ferrell, Kay Felder, Marcus Paige, Corey Walden
---------------------
5 - Jordan Bachynski
4 - O'Quinn
2 - Terrico White
1 - Grant
1 - Calderon

Hairston: 4 yrs/$13.32mm ($3.33mm)
Bayless: 4 yrs/$30mm ($7.5mm)
Hernangomez: 3 yrs/$10mm ($3.33mm)
D-Will: 4 yrs/$24mm ($6mm)
Solomon Hill: 4 yrs/$13.32mm ($3.33mm)

Above 5 FAs: $23.49/yr average but I think we could structure it all so everyone takes slightly less in yr 1 to get in around $19-20mm (I could be over a little too--Bayless might come for less than $7.5 per, D-Will may select to opt in for only the $5mm, etc..)... We keep Calderon and he just comes off regularly the following season w/o stretching... Unless it's KD or DeRozan, just concentrating on building up the supporting cast for next year focusing on guys that fill needs and can grow together. A bit of a leap of faith but my gut on Bayless: young vet who's too talented to remain a backup. I think we could get some nice production out of him if we up his usage--I'd look to grab this dude cheap and give him the green light in the lead guard role. Overall guard play = younger, much improved outside shooting, much improved penetration/transition speed...Solomon Hill's younger and a more versatile/better overall player than Lance Thomas. He'd inherit LT's mins. and could also see mins. at the 2 (Indy may want him back--I might up the offer from 4 yrs/13.32 and maybe even offer a starting 2G role in order to get him). Looking for Hernangomez to play the same role Enes Kanter is playing for OKC...If we're unable to get a 2nd rounder, I really like Corey Walden from the DL as a backup PG. He's better than Galloway--also known for his defense only this dude has a tighter handle, he's probably a better shooter and he's a better penetrator/finisher. Walden's one of the best kept secrets out there imo... Bachynski would provide legit C size and shot-blocking for the minimum. Another minimum signing, Terrico White, had a very good year in the DL. I think he's an NBA SG. His jumper's much improved--deadly from mid range and shot over 42% from 3. Can also put it on the floor and he's got excellent strength, athleticism, transition speed/finishing ability. He'd supply great depth at wing and I could see him pushing guys ahead of him for mins. in this scenario (Hairston, Wroten, maybe Hill, etc.)...Glad to see Grant's playing better--may actually be a rotation player now although I still need to see more...Giving O'Quinn away to open up even more cap room is an option.

Fine--I think the main theme of what I keep looking at in free agency is how do we sneak more in for less. I dont want to pay anyone 18-22mm $ other than Derozan who is not coming. We need a high quality back up big man who can play 25 minutes--who can also step in in case guys get hurt--why not Pau Gasol--give him the same exact deal he got in Chicago 2 years 14mm.

Then pay secondary shooters Bazemore 8mm per for 4 years and Crawford 2 years 7mm per. That gives us much more reliable firepower. Lastly instead of paying a PG like Rondo who cant shoot or Conley who is an injury away from being done--why dont we use organic growth(Grant and Wroten) and pay up for one of the better players the last 6-8 weeks--Seth Curry--he does everything you want in the triangle for much less. He leads the NBA is % 3 point shooting going on almost 2 months. With Collison and Rondo--he hasnt had the PT to really show the PG skills but last night Im highly convinced that hes a great PG as well. It was one of the best passing games Ive seen in awhile and I think he can get better.

The only thing I dont like abut mine is I dont want Derrick Williams AND Lance Thomas on the same unit. I think in some ways--same player

Everyone has specific players they like and are advocating. I don't think there's a wrong answer here. Most important--we seem to be on the same page as far as not overpaying for the 2nd tier FAs behind KD and DeRozan (the Rondos, the Conleys, etc.). Not even sure about Batum on an overpay...I think Ned was basically saying the same thing on his "The Process" thread the other day. If we decide to dole out max money or close to it, it's got to be for an immediate impact difference maker, not for a guy that may (or may not?) net us 5 more wins but at the same time box us in cap-wise over the next several years. Not interest in a 43-win team with no further cap flexibility and no chance of challenging for a championship (or even getting out of the East). I'd rather remain patient, spend money wisely fleshing out the team with younger players that will be here for awhile, not drastically overpaying for anyone if I can help it, acquiring players that have modest/moveable contracts and also players that I feel could step up with increased usage...I don't like the future with Rondo, Conley and Batum for the money they'll command and I'm not looking to do anything just to appease Melo. It's got to be about building the team now the right way. Looking to improve the team and give him some good options to work with but I'm not looking to just throw money at the guys he'll want (Rondo, etc.). That's not in the best interest of this team's future.

I could be down for Seth Curry and Bazemore--they fit the bill of what we're talking about. I'm glad Seth Curry's finally getting a shot. I talked about getting him from time to time going back a couple of years now. Dude's performed well at ever stop--college, DL, summer ball. It was a pretty safe bet to assume he could continue producing at the NBA level. Agreed -- he can shoot it and handle/pass the ball. Could be a good pickup, no doubt.. One factor to consider: if we got Seth and made a commitment to making him a rotation player, could that possibly help lure brother Steph here? Again, don't go nuts on me--I know he probably stays put in GS but what if, man, you know? What if he wins MVP again and they win another championship? I get the whole dynasty aspect, stick with the winner and they'll play him--but what if he wants more? What if he really still wants NYC deep down--having his brother already here could only help, right? I wouldn't bet on it but you never know -- what if we had LeBron's younger brother on the Knicks back when he made "the decision"? Would that have helped us? On a much smaller scale, it made a difference for JR to take on brother Chris at one point, right? Unlike Chris Smith, Seth Curry can actually play...Bazemore's a bit more established now off the solid year & will thus cost a little more--have to see what his number will be. I think I prefer Hairston--bigger, a little younger, might have an even higher ceiling and should cost less off an uneven year. He's always impressed me against us. Usually matches up against Melo and plays him tough while remaining a threat at the other end. And that's playing out of position against the bigger Melo basically..

I can see Pau if we decide we're in "go for it with Melo" mode -- I just don't know how much of a factor he'd be. Plus, he didn't wanna come here when, 2 years ago, right? I kinda put him in the same boat as Rondo, Conley Jr, etc.. He's got a lot of miles on him and I'm not sure he makes us that much better. How good does he make us? A handful of games better? Is it worth delaying Willy H's growth? I really like what I see from Willy a lot. Can't wait to get him in here. 6'11" 250+ and he looks very skilled in the post. Plus, he's got young legs and can get out and run a little. Everyone's saying Luis Scola--I definitely see some Enes Kanter in him as well. Not sure exactly how his salary works--I doubt he's coming for a typical 2nd round pick contract. I think we might have to pay a little but I think it'll be worth it. I wanna hit the ground running with Willy right away. He'd be my primary big man off the bench. Also like the idea of signing Jordan Bachynski for added size and shot-blocking. DL all-star big man that's still young and would come dirt cheap. Yet another decent young player to develop. Solomon Hill's a player I'm definitely intrigued by. Much better player than Lance Thomas--he's a 3 but has the skills to play 2G as well. Interested to see what his number will be and how hard Indy fights to keep him.