Maybe as a back up on the bench, but I don't think you can sign him and expect much.

mreinman wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

mreinman wrote:he is an under average player so his salary should not exceed the average.

Which is what? Gimmie the number that gets it done for this guy -- 4 yrs/$26mm? Less, more? I dunno man -- good possibility of getting Jeff Teague/Jordan Clarkson/Avery Bradley-type production for a contract around 4 yrs/$26mm -- I find that appealing.

don't what the avg will be next season but I hope its less than that. 3 million x 3?

Interesting. I guess to boils down to offering enough to get him to leave Milwaukee to come here, yet not overpaying. I feel the 3x3 you mentioned is something Milwaukee may offer him, prob. a little more--that's basically the money they gave him on his existing deal. You figure with the cap set to climb much higher, salaries will be inflated some. I think that's what we'll have to contend with -- a soaring cap/inflated contracts + offering a player enough to leave his current situation: a little more money, more shot attempts, a lead guard role. I fell we can deal with the incentives for a guy in this range but drastically overpaying for a bigger name? I don't know if that's in our best interest.

Finestrg wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

mreinman wrote:he is an under average player so his salary should not exceed the average.

Which is what? Gimmie the number that gets it done for this guy -- 4 yrs/$26mm? Less, more? I dunno man -- good possibility of getting Jeff Teague/Jordan Clarkson/Avery Bradley-type production for a contract around 4 yrs/$26mm -- I find that appealing.

don't what the avg will be next season but I hope its less than that. 3 million x 3?

Interesting. I guess to boils down to offering enough to get him to leave Milwaukee to come here, yet not overpaying. I feel the 3x3 you mentioned is something Milwaukee may offer him, prob. a little more--that's basically the money they gave him on his existing deal. You figure with the cap set to climb much higher, salaries will be inflated some. I think that's what we'll have to contend with -- a soring cap/inflated contracts + offering a player enough to leave his current situation: a little more money, more shot attempts, a lead guard role. I fell we can deal with the incentives for a guy in this range but drastically overpaying for a bigger name? I don't know if that's in our best interest.

I agree with your mindset ... don't overpay and find a player who can contribute for cheap. Either way, bayless would be a stop gap. I don't believe that a winning team can have a guy like him playing lead guard at 12-14 shots per game. He is just not good enough.

callmened wrote:yeah its tricky...most likely it would have to be one or the other. good vets are going to want to get PAID this summer for a long contract. but most likely these vets arent the type to make you a great team (ie. OJ Mayo). so the best way would be to sign young diamond in the rough players and hope they develop. but that means we wont win 40-45 games. if i had to choose, id choose the "getting" young route and sacrifice a few seasons...to save money, get draft picks and then capitalize when KP is in his prime. to me, winning 40-45 games to be eliminated in the 1st rd isnt worth it. but building a solid young team from the roots would be worth a few (more) losing yrs

I hear what you're saying, Ned. I was really talking about taking that next step (40+ wins, playoffs) while adding cost-effective pieces that stick and we continue building with, but point taken. And I agree with what you've said before about Melo not wanting to go the get younger/develop young talent route. You're right--Melo's all about tunnel vision with his own needs at this stage. Dude's all about Rondo/Conley Jr. or bust I feel. He definitely wouldn't be happy with half the guys I'm talking about. So what does Phil do? Does he crack and hand this guy Rondo (on an overpay mind you--dude doesn't even want to come here, I mean he said so) or does he remain patient despite Melo's overbearing presence and go for young/lasting improvements for the betterment of the team? I'm with you--I vote the latter. There's no "I" in team...Any time Melo doesn't care for the direction, there's the door. Go in and sit down with Phil and work together to get yourself to a destination where you'll have a chance to win. I'd prefer to do that sooner than later in fact, while the man still has some value. It's ashame that Melo isn't very open-minded -- I'd love for Melo to be down with this plan and say, "OK, I can deal with Bayless, Hairston, Solomon Hill and Willy H.." I just don't think he'll feel that way. I think he's thinking star or bust--I think he feels he deserves that/is owed that and if Phil doesn't deliver it, we're gonna see him pout and make a big stink about it. I honestly believe that. I hope Phil resists the urge to crack and allow Melo to dictate all the terms. Phil/Melo had a chance in FA last summer and basically struck out. I like this summer's group of top FAs even less the more I look at them (talking about guys after KD and DeRozan--those two aren't coming here). If we dig deeper though, there are quite a few deals to be had, guys that we can continue fortifying around KP with/building with.

Similar skill and size around 6'3" 200.. It wasn't until Billups' 7th year in the league (when he got to Detroit) that his career really started taking off. Before that, he was putting up merely passable numbers much like what we've see from Bayless so far. I think usage and the right team/fit means so much. Chauncey finally took off once he found his niche on the right team (and then continued exceling on subsequent teams). All of a sudden he was looked at in a completely different light from everyone--his coaches, his teammates, his opponents around the league... Before that for his first 6 seasons though, he was looked at as sort of a bust if I remember right. I see a similar pattern with Bayless, right down to the potential for much more just like Billups eventually proved. And what it took was a team that saw something in him, saw that he was capable of much more and they gave him a shot. Give DET a lot of credit for cultivating Billups, extracting that talent and channeling it...Not saying Bayless is guaranteed to become Chauncey Billups, all I'm saying is that sometimes it takes guys awhile to really find the right situation. Took Billups a little while but eventually he was looked at as one of the better lead guards in the league. There's no question Bayless has the talent -- if he didn't, I wouldn't even bother wasting my time making such a comparison. I mean imagine we got this guy for a good price and finally gave him his own team to run full-time, what that could do for him? That's an experiment/challenge I'd like to see Phil take on right now -- let's see if we could come close to turning Jerryd Bayless into Chauncey Billups. We already know the money that we'll be talking about here with Bayless will be much more favorable compared to what else will be out there this summer at that position. And no disrespect to Billups, he was a damn good player, but look at his career numbers for a sec.: 15.2 ppg, only 41.5% FGs (4.5-10.9), 38.7% from 3, 89.4% FTs (4.3-4.8) 5.4 apg, 1.0 spg. Those are far from HOF numbers--hey who knows, Billups may still make the HOF one day. He was that highly thought of by the end of his career. Those first 6 seasons though--much different story.. I think Bayless, with the talent he has, has a chance to get to that same level or close to it.

mreinman wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Anyone else see a little Chauncey Billups with this dude or am I way off?

Similar skill and size around 6'3" 200.. It wasn't until Billups' 7th year in the league (when he got to Detroit) that his career really started taking off. Before that, he was putting up merely passable numbers much like what we've see from Bayless so far. I think usage and the right team/fit means so much. Chauncey finally took off once he found his niche on the right team (and then continued exceling on subsequent teams). All of a sudden he was looked at in a completely different light from everyone--his coaches, his teammates, his opponents around the league... Before that for his first 6 seasons though, he was looked at as sort of a bust if I remember right. I see a similar pattern with Bayless, right down to the potential for much more just like Billups eventually proved. And what it took was a team that saw something in him, saw that he was capable of much more and they managed to extract that talent from him and channel it...Not saying Bayless is guaranteed to become Chauncey Billups, all I'm saying is that sometimes it takes guys awhile to really find the right situation. Took Billups a little while but eventually he was looked at as one of the better lead guards in the league. There's no question Bayless has the talent -- if he didn't, I wouldn't even bother wasting my time making such a comparison. I mean imagine we got this guy for a good price compared to what else'll be out there this summer and finally gave him his own team to run full-time, what that could do for him? That's an experiment/challenge I'd like to see Phil take on right now -- let's see if we could come close to turning Jerryd Bayless into Chauncey Billups. And no disrespect to Billups, he was a damn good player, but look at his career numbers for a sec.: 15.2 ppg, only 41.5% FGs (4.5-10.9), 38.7% from 3, 89.4% FTs (4.3-4.8) 5.4 apg, 1.0 spg. Those are far from HOF numbers--hey who knows, Billups may still make the HOF one day. He was that highly thought of by the end of his career. Those first 6 seasons though--much different story.. I think Bayless, with the talent he has, has a chance to get to that same level or close to it.

it actually clicked in for him his last year with minny but good point about him going from a bad player to a good player in his sixth year. He may be more the exception.

I just think Bayless is way too talented to be nothing more than a backup for someone for the rest of his career. I really believe he could eventually bust out one day. He may just be one of those guys that needs a team that believes in his talent and gives him that lead role. No true hard evidence to backup what I'm saying--just a feeling I get about this guy, you know?

Finestrg wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Anyone else see a little Chauncey Billups with this dude or am I way off?

Similar skill and size around 6'3" 200.. It wasn't until Billups' 7th year in the league (when he got to Detroit) that his career really started taking off. Before that, he was putting up merely passable numbers much like what we've see from Bayless so far. I think usage and the right team/fit means so much. Chauncey finally took off once he found his niche on the right team (and then continued exceling on subsequent teams). All of a sudden he was looked at in a completely different light from everyone--his coaches, his teammates, his opponents around the league... Before that for his first 6 seasons though, he was looked at as sort of a bust if I remember right. I see a similar pattern with Bayless, right down to the potential for much more just like Billups eventually proved. And what it took was a team that saw something in him, saw that he was capable of much more and they managed to extract that talent from him and channel it...Not saying Bayless is guaranteed to become Chauncey Billups, all I'm saying is that sometimes it takes guys awhile to really find the right situation. Took Billups a little while but eventually he was looked at as one of the better lead guards in the league. There's no question Bayless has the talent -- if he didn't, I wouldn't even bother wasting my time making such a comparison. I mean imagine we got this guy for a good price compared to what else'll be out there this summer and finally gave him his own team to run full-time, what that could do for him? That's an experiment/challenge I'd like to see Phil take on right now -- let's see if we could come close to turning Jerryd Bayless into Chauncey Billups. And no disrespect to Billups, he was a damn good player, but look at his career numbers for a sec.: 15.2 ppg, only 41.5% FGs (4.5-10.9), 38.7% from 3, 89.4% FTs (4.3-4.8) 5.4 apg, 1.0 spg. Those are far from HOF numbers--hey who knows, Billups may still make the HOF one day. He was that highly thought of by the end of his career. Those first 6 seasons though--much different story.. I think Bayless, with the talent he has, has a chance to get to that same level or close to it.

it actually clicked in for him his last year with minny but good point about him going from a bad player to a good player in his sixth year. He may be more the exception.

I just think Bayless is too talented to be nothing more than a backup for someone for the rest of his career. I really believe he could eventually bust out one day.

what do you think are the chances of that happening?

Good. Real good. We get this guy at a good price, give him the lead role and make a concerted effort to get him more than 8.7 shots/game. I'm curious what type of player he'd become in an environment where he was given freedom to perform and getting 12+ shots/game (a lot of speculation out there that Phil and his triangle may not be such an environment--I really have to question that myself). We give Bayless that latitude, his entire game could really take off -- I'm saying something close to 15-16 ppg, 43% FG, 40% from 3, 4-5 apg. It might just be that simple. The dude has all-star talent imo. He just needs to be cultivated properly. Again, no true evidence to support this--just a feeling I have and I'd like to see us take the chance.

I think the chances are quite low at this point in his career but I would certainly be willing to take a shot if it were a cheap / short term deal.

I am actually more intrigued by him than other under average players, mainly because he has shown that he can shoot.